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Old 12th June 2009, 10:22   #286
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
1) So imo they have gone the quality over quantity route and deliberately kept the quality levels up and price high.
If you look at ANHC, apart from the engine and the boot the car falls behind Jazz in every aspect.

2) Therefore you get what you pay for... Its not merely features like climate control, its the quality of materials used which matters a lot.
Jazz comes very close to Fabia in this respect.

3) It would make a perfect city runabout for those who are squeezed for parking spaces and have the moolah.
The steep pricing would also ensure everyone wont end up owning it like Swift thus giving you the exclusivity the car/price like this deserves.
It would make a perfect City car, small on outside, big on inside. Enough grunt in the city and good mileage to complement.
Even a freind of mine who owns an SX4, liked this car over it!
1) Ok, lets say they are giving quality, but then what about heart of the car. By GTO's review it was clear that the motor is not that good, may be because it is hauling too much weight for its size, but then after paying Rs. 8 lakh, I dont think that this is a good compromise. What if Maruti comes up with Swift powered by Wagon R motor with very high quality interiors, etc.
Will we appreciate that car even for Rs. 7 lakhs OTR ?

2) We also pay for the engine, but do we get that ? I think they must have come up with 1.4. Perfect capacity for that car with performance to match its price and the image Honda is trying to create for this car.

3) It all depends upon the definition of " pefect city car " and this varies from person to person, city to city.
i10 1.2 AT is a better city car IMHO. With the traffic conditions getting very very bad, its better to have a smaller hatch with AT.
If its upto parking, I think Wagon R, Ritz, I10 are smaller so they will handle these things better.
The point I am trying to make is that for its size, I20 is almost as good as a city car with cars like Swift, etc scoring higher ( for me ).
About exclusivity in this segment, I think Fabia is best example of terming failure as exclusivity.

For the same price, I would have SX4. Better GC, wider A.S & S. network, more space and bigger boot + peace of mind ( for being sure that cost and service wont cost much under the pretext of " Premium Ultra High Quality "). ANHC ( G3HC) spares are quite expensive, so I wonder how will this better quality product from Honda will fare.


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As per the reliability, in the JD Power Survey the Spark and Aveo were reported as cars that were most reliable. i.e. least amount of problems reported. Not a bad effort for korean rebadged Chevys. My guess is things will pick up once the newer modern platforms (no rebadged daewoo's) are introduced eg cruze, new spark.
These cars sell in very less numbers, so the base itself is not as large as Alto/Wagon R, etc.
But one must agree that issues are generally not reported by these car owners.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 12th June 2009 at 10:23.
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Old 12th June 2009, 10:30   #287
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Is there any technical or performance superiority the AHNC offers over the Jazz, or is it just the extra boot space that gives many the perception AHNC>Jazz?

Reminds me of the similar Fusion-Fiesta dilemma I had an year back!
Can someone compare and tell if the cabin space of ANHC and Jazz are the same? In case of Ford, the Fusion was wider then Fiesta and had lot more spacious inside.
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Old 12th June 2009, 10:52   #288
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Can someone compare and tell if the cabin space of ANHC and Jazz are the same? In case of Ford, the Fusion was wider then Fiesta and had lot more spacious inside.
Exterior width is same at 1695 but wheelbase of ANHC is 50 mm longer. Also, in the rear seat, the backrest looks more reclined in ANHC.

Last edited by Guna : 12th June 2009 at 10:54.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:01   #289
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From what i read from todays papers, honda ceo said that they have tried to create a new segment called B+(+) to position jazz as a premium hatchback. Think it is the only car that is going to be placed in that segment for years to come................

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We also pay for the engine, but do we get that ? I think they must have come up with 1.4. Perfect capacity for that car with performance to match its price and the image Honda is trying to create for this car.
If they had introduced jazz with 1.4 they would have priced it at 13 L ( ex-showroom) in competiton with civic

Last edited by geeash : 12th June 2009 at 11:04.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:17   #290
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
And yet, look at all those pics. In certain ways its a fallacy to call it a hatchback. In many ways its a monobox like a van. In fact a much more stylish one in several ways than the ones available here. It can be a lifestyle vehicle for many who do not want a humongous van like vehicle for their daily runs and yet need something similar in comfort, space and with some verve thrown in. For them the Jazz may look like a perfect Fit (pun intended). Just look at the loadable space. At the minimum it is some 380 liters I believe. Thats more than what some of the sedans here offer you. And you can increase it further (albeit at the cost of passenger capacity) if required. To add to all that you get many of the modern safety features that anyhow we at Team BHP have always said should be there in every car. Jazz comes with ABS, EBD and Airbags as standard across variants. So all the razzmattaz with a new body style (yes, I still do not exactly see it as a conventional hatch, neither in looks, proportions or styling) and the driving convenience of a monobox (believe me, lot many people find driving a monobox easier than a 3 box car). Hmmm... add to that the H tag and the snob value of driving the newest car in town (just like the premium you pay for 1st day 1st show of an eagerly awaited movie) and suddenly some people may not find the 8 lakh tag that exorbitant afterall.
Agreed Zappo. But then, each car is judged relative to what the competition is offer. I've always considered the i20 overpriced for the 1.2 engine, now it looks like a steal (1.2 lakhs cheaper + more features than an Accord).

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I agree.. Its the image of the bad old days (Astra Days- no offence to astra owners) that is main reason behind the resale and FE complains...
That's precisely why they did away with the Opel brand name entirely.

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Originally Posted by Glass View Post
The only thing I don't agree with is why the sedan is automatically the preferred/superior choice and hence can be much higher priced than the hatch. Is there any technical or performance superiority the AHNC offers over the Jazz, or is it just the extra boot space that gives many the perception AHNC>Jazz?
For 50,000 more, the City gives you:

1. A 1.5 liter engine & 27 more horses. The City is a great highway car too, the Jazz competent only within the city. By any measure of performance, the City is superior.

2. The City has an advantage in ride quality as well as handling.

3. Automatic available

4. Too early to take a call on this, yet most probably the City will retain its value better when its time for resale.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:33   #291
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
(1.2 lakhs cheaper + more features than an Accord).
There is a typo, I think you meant Jazz and not Accord
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:36   #292
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If you look at ANHC, apart from the engine and the boot the car falls behind Jazz in every aspect. The quality of plastic, the sound quality of the music system, the dashboard and the side panels, the wipers, everything is better in Jazz. Therefore you get what you pay for... Its not merely features like climate control, its the quality of materials used which matters a lot.
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Even a freind of mine who owns an SX4, liked this car over it!
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(Not trying to offend your statement starvegabond rather its against Honda) Honda could be true on this but did they mention what was the engine size that they sold in those 130 countries? Here in Austraila, the smallest Engine size they offer is 1.3L (no-one goes for it,obviously). The big hit is 1.5L. So, how can Honda thinks that they can befool Indian cosumers and expect a good business with a 1.2L (which they are selling at price of 1.5L which in OZ is ~Rs.8 Lac)

Apart from this at above mentioned price, Honda jazz(abroad) comes equipped with front and rear disk breaks, rear demister, rear viper, cruise control....

Now tell me Honda where does your Indian counterpart stands up against overseas models. You are ripping us Indians completly off..........Sorry, You lost my support mate.
+100 to that, Punzabi.

Giving good Quality (not sure how much more SHOULD it cost) does not mean charging 8.5 - 9 Lacs. Also, by not giving features, & may be the engine as you mentioned, that it gives there in Australia (& may be other countries) but does not give in India though charging the cost which is same or even higher than other countries, what is Honda thinking about Indian Customers - Worshippers or Fools or status-seekers without applying mind or what not?

This is very sad. Extremely sad Its almost as if Honda is being very very rude here. It seems to believe that whatever they do, they command so much "worship" that they'll get away with it & people should think this is how other Car MFRs should do (someone on this thread even suggested that instead of asking Honda to rationalise the Jazz price, Ford & others should be asked to increase their prices & supposedly quality so Honda Price looks rational)

I'm going seriously OT here, can't resist. In one of the movies (Kalia?), Amitabh Bachchan said - "Hum jahan khade hai, Line wahan se shuru hoti hai".

Sadly, Honda would get away with this again as they've a huge following here in India. That would be very sad as that will encourage them more not to give the contents the India customers should be given though charging them Bomb or at par with other country customers.

PS: I've a colleague who bought ANHC recently. He is banging his head why has he bought it & how now Honda made his Sedan ANHC look inferior to Hatch Jazz
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:38   #293
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To me i20 surely comes as a winner when compared to Jazz. As someone rightly said for a car having around 80% of localization, Honda can never justify its price tag. Agreed it has a brand value but it seems Honda is planning to run their world business by looting Indians.

PS: I still feel there would be 'some' takers for this car at least to boast their so called financial status.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:42   #294
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Toyota needs to get yaris hatch/sedan to counter the daylight robbery of Jazz/City.

Then, let's see how much Honda asks for "brand value premium".
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:52   #295
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As reported by someone, to accomodate the JAZZ Honda would have to discontibue that E model because i wont mind spending 50k more for a IVTEC and the value that sedans offer in India.
There is nothing great in JAZZ over other cars except those "magic seats"

i20 with 80 Bhp is not too slow a performer if we save that much moolah, 10 bhp slower but then Hyundai has a better service network all over india and the features and interiors Jazz makes i20 look a steal

So much of honda bashing has been done on this thread regarding pricing, have never seen that anywhere, even if someone from TBHP buys the car after reading this thread, his hands will tremble while typing initial ownership reports as to what will the others ask him
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:54   #296
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well its true that the Jazz is highly over priced! i think honda is opening up a new segment by launching jazz.

various countries have different engines in jazz as per the demands and conditions and taxes of those countries.

UK does get the 1.2 ltr engine. uae has 1.5 ltr engine same as city.

with 1.2 ltr engine in india, honda does keep the price on the LOWER side.

its always the circumstances and conditions which are taken into consideration before launching a car.

for example, in uae we dont get hyundai i20! though i10 and i30 are sold here, but no i20!

in europe, there is i20 with 1.2, 1.4 and diesel engines.

yes, people who can afford it, will buy Jazz!
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:00   #297
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
PS: I've a colleague who bought ANHC recently. He is banging his head why has he bought it & how now Honda made his Sedan ANHC look inferior to Hatch Jazz
Looks are subjective and Jazz interiors are designed to be more funky compared to the the ANHC, which falls more on 'funtional' side. Other then that, is there anything superior to the Jazz interiors compared to ANHC?
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:12   #298
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Outstanding review again from GTO.

I will be waiting for all those special / anniversary editions (market speak for pushing a failed product) before even considering the Jazz , unless the H badge can pull of a miracle at this price.
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:14   #299
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Looks are subjective and Jazz interiors are designed to be more funky compared to the the ANHC, which falls more on 'funtional' side. Other then that, is there anything superior to the Jazz interiors compared to ANHC?
Its the way Honda has priced & positioned Jazz. ANHC guys would repent why after spending 9-10 Lacs, they do not get those interiors & 'funky'/ 'functional' equipments
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:15   #300
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Originally Posted by geeash View Post
From what i read from todays papers, honda ceo said that they have tried to create a new segment called B+(+) to position jazz as a premium hatchback.
We all should thank Honda for creating a new segment (B++) for Indian buyers. Honda, we salute you!

As a Bhpian from Australia mentioned on this thread, In Australia, Honda gave a 1.4 engine & whole lot of features in jazz, and charging the same price as in India.
And here in India, they are giving a meagre 1.2 engine with less equipments, 77% localization and they have the audacity to price it 7 - 8 lacs!
This is nothing but plain duping!
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