Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th June 2009, 11:19   #346
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,309
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
Dude, that's why I put corolla and civic in picture. It's a known fact that cars in India are 50-100% costlier because of duties. That's why I was saying FIT/JAZZ at comparable prices was a pleasant surprise to me (I am serious). I was avoiding to let a friend wait for it because I didn't expect it to launch at < 12L. Let's continue on the other aspects of the car now.
So you wanted Honda to price it at 12 lacs in India? Not for nothing I've always mentioned that Honda will get away with this price & will sell 20000 units a year.

OK, rough calculations as my earlier post.

top model Jazz price in India - 8.5 to 9 Lacs
add excise benefits due to 1.2 engine - 1 lacs
so difference is 12 L - 10 Lacs = 2 Lacs

77% localisation means dirt cheap labour cost & operating costs - shall we say 30% cost saving? - 30% of 9 Lacs = 2.7 lacs
Add that to 10 Lacs = 12.7 lacs & at that Honda is not giving huge no. of costly features its giving in US.

Deduct cost of those features from 12 Lacs price is US & that compare that US price with 12.7 Lacs

On the other hand. Leave aside pricing. Assume Indian customers will pay whatever Honda asks for (which is always the case ironically) - now why Honda is not giving those lovely features in India though charging a bomb (or let them charge higher bomb with these features)? Most of these features are being given to Indians by one or the other manufacturer. Its not that Indians are not willing to pay else Honda would have been rejected long back.

117-hp, 1.5-Liter, 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC® Engine - why its peddling that punny 1.2 (compared to 1.5 L) engine in India
ULEV-2 (Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicle) - ??
Front and Rear Stabilizer Bars (All Fit Sport Models) - ??
Side Curtain Airbags
Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) with Traction Control
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) -
Daytime Running Lights (DRL) - ??
Outboard Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) -
Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System™ with Voice Recognition[4]
160-Watt AM/FM/CD Audio System with 6 Speakers - not sure about wattage shd be < 160 watt in India
USB Audio Interface[3]
Cruise Control
Perforated Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel - ??
Tilt and Telescopic Steering Column - Only tilt, no telescopic steering in India. Why?
Maintenance Minder™ System
Body-Colored Folding Power Side Mirrors - Not power-folding in India
Fog Lights - Honda never gives Fog Lights in India. Why? American lives are more worthy/ costlier?
Body-Colored Rear Roofline Spoiler
Chrome Exhaust Finisher
Tinted Glass
16" Alloy Wheels - Honda never gives Alloy as standard in India. Why? Indians are plain simple people & Americans are funky?
VahanPujari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 11:35   #347
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,309
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
The car looks nice (I am biased!) and extremely practical.
Very Good. Will be keen to see your ownership review with this extremely practical car
Quote:
I wouldnt probably spend that much to own this car, but would envy the owners for sure
Oh, just a sentence back, I thought you said its Extremely practical
This is what happens. People worship something & lauds it but when it comes to themselves, they do not follow it
You are right on 2nd part though. Its that "Neighbour's envy, Owner's Prode" theme that Honda knows fully well for Indian consumer mindset, keeps on working on it & getting away with whatever higher prices

Quote:
I really wish Maruti makes bigger hatches (atleast 10 inches longer and 10 inches wider!). The VFM junta will cheer them like never before.
Why? Instead Why don't we want/ wish that Honda makes them at rational Prices? Why its always the other MFRs that we want them to follow the Honda path?
Quote:
I'm going seriously OT here, can't resist. In one of the movies (Kalia?), Amitabh Bachchan said - "Hum jahan khade hai, Line wahan se shuru hoti hai".
VahanPujari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 14:02   #348
BHPian
 
FastLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 416
Thanked: 99 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Very Good. Will be keen to see your ownership review with this extremely practical car

Oh, just a sentence back, I thought you said its Extremely practical
This is what happens. People worship something & lauds it but when it comes to themselves, they do not follow it
You are right on 2nd part though. Its that "Neighbour's envy, Owner's Prode" theme that Honda knows fully well for Indian consumer mindset, keeps on working on it & getting away with whatever higher prices


Why? Instead Why don't we want/ wish that Honda makes them at rational Prices? Why its always the other MFRs that we want them to follow the Honda path?

Just one question : Why So Serious ?!
FastLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 14:22   #349
BHPian
 
Equus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 872
Thanked: 158 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Very Good. Will be keen to see your ownership review with this extremely practical car

Oh, just a sentence back, I thought you said its Extremely practical
This is what happens. People worship something & lauds it but when it comes to themselves, they do not follow it
You are right on 2nd part though. Its that "Neighbour's envy, Owner's Prode" theme that Honda knows fully well for Indian consumer mindset, keeps on working on it & getting away with whatever higher prices


Why? Instead Why don't we want/ wish that Honda makes them at rational Prices? Why its always the other MFRs that we want them to follow the Honda path?
Compact -> Midside -> Fullsize hatches!!

I rest my case here
Equus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 14:29   #350
BHPian
 
vvvinod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 192
Thanked: 9 Times
Default Spec Comparison of Jazz, i20 , Ritz

Spend some time to consolidate the data.
Attached Files
File Type: xls i20-jazz-ritz.xls (35.5 KB, 500 views)
vvvinod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 14:47   #351
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,309
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLove View Post
Just one question : Why So Serious ?!
Hmm. I thought about it & thought again & thought again. yeah why so serious when it comes to Jazz
VahanPujari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 15:46   #352
ada
BHPian
 
ada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 132
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Auto car India people were all ga-ga over the Jazz, they even interviewed the top Japanese honcho. Only one line was said that it was a bit pricey, no hoo haa over it. As a matter of fact according to auto car india, Honda is not worried about competition from i20, fabia etc (theyt do not even consider them as competition), they are worried that Jazz might eat into City sales.
ada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 16:02   #353
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,317 Times
Default

I really wish they get a huge kick on their backside by the consumers for their snobbery!
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 16:40   #354
BHPian
 
Gagan.js's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 227
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ada View Post
Auto car India people were all ga-ga over the Jazz, they even interviewed the top Japanese honcho. Only one line was said that it was a bit pricey, no hoo haa over it. As a matter of fact according to auto car india, Honda is not worried about competition from i20, fabia etc (theyt do not even consider them as competition), they are worried that Jazz might eat into City sales.
These magazines totally suck with their biased reviews!

Gotta love the internet for that reason, thanks tbhp, thanks GTO
Gagan.js is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 16:52   #355
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Spend some time to consolidate the data.
In you data sheet, you have mentioned Ritz Torque as 11.3kgm, actually its 11.5. The reason why it feels good. Its better spread than G-series engines.

If Honda could not have brought it 1.4, and considering the point made by Mpower that the smaller VTEC does belong to Lseries family and does cost almost as much to produce as the 1.5 in city, why could Honda not put in the same motor. Infact, they can further tune ECU to bring power to around 100bhp and tune it for more efficiency.
This way the power problem will be solved.
aaggoswami is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 17:20   #356
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Very Good. Will be keen to see your ownership review with this extremely practical car

Oh, just a sentence back, I thought you said its Extremely practical
This is what happens. People worship something & lauds it but when it comes to themselves, they do not follow it
You are right on 2nd part though. Its that "Neighbour's envy, Owner's Prode" theme that Honda knows fully well for Indian consumer mindset, keeps on working on it & getting away with whatever higher prices


Why? Instead Why don't we want/ wish that Honda makes them at rational Prices? Why its always the other MFRs that we want them to follow the Honda path?
I get the point that you dont like Jazz or its pricing. Honda is not forcing you to buy one. No point making fun of those who appreciate it, they clearly have a different opinion than yours.

I remember the same was said about ANHC price vis a vis Linea, we all know how it went. The Linea now has a dedicated thread with owners telling us about how Fiat has built the car to price by compromising on the quality with plastic parts coming off within weeks of ownership. Still to hear that about ANHC.

Agreed its a pricey car, but its upto Honda on which segment and class they target and what numbers they are looking at and whats their manfacturing capacity. The car is priced at 6.98 lakh ex showroom in Delhi, and for all comparos I see ppl stating its 8 lakhs. Now we can open another thread on why southern states take high road taxes whilst having poorer infrastructure than the north, but that itself requires a seperate thread. In a country where we are yet to have proper high ways, proper road, where their are exise and levies from peterol to movies, we have enough things to complain already.

No point comparing the cost of the car with that of US, as if we were in US, we'd all be driving Civics or Accords than Swifts or City's. But till that time we are here, we can just live with what we have and appreciate we have another car in our market.

Cut Honda some slack, Honda is one of the few car makers that at least offers many cars from its global portfolio in India. Look at Toyota, they are yet to offer anything serious other than the Innova and Corrola and their CKDs. Suzuki doesnt have enough cars in its portfolio in C and D segment, so they keep launching more of the same. All cars launched and made on Swift platform. Hyundai keeps getting worse in its offering, there was a time we had so many Sonatas (old) on the road, Elantras and Tucson... Now they are limited to Santro and i10 and a not so serious effort with i20 by limiting their engine options. Skoda, well considered as low grade cars from eastern europe in Western Euope, are priced at premium in India. To top that they have astronomically high spares and service. Tata's are yet to develop a good portfolio and their cars are some way off of the global engineering standard. Mahindra is no jeep, they just keep ploking the same engines in poorly designed chasis (compared to world standards) and we keep buying them as we dont have any choice. I have lost track on the number of upgrades Scorpio has had... giving us more of the same!

So given the depressing automotive scene that we have in our developing country, all new highways no matter how much toll they charge and all new cars no matter how pricey they are, are welcome. As they are a step towards the right direction, and if we do live to see that day, when we have sane tax structure in our country, we may see their prices eventually coming down... Untill that day, lets just close our eyes and imagine the Civic we drive is a BMW M5 and the Skoda Laura is a WV Passat and the Swift is Swift Sports. If you have seen the Matrix, its all in the mind anyways....

Honda bashing goes so much overboard here that we start blaming Honda for everything wrong with our automotive scene. I saw on a news channel (BBC iirc) that India and China had the same per capita income in 1999. Look at where China is now, infrastructure, cars, economy etc.... who do we blame that on now... Honda???

Before I write any further, I guess its time for me to get a sanity check

Last edited by aseem : 13th June 2009 at 17:38.
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 17:40   #357
BHPian
 
SilentEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mangalore-Bangalore
Posts: 917
Thanked: 119 Times
Default

honda jazz tv commercial
HONDA JAZZ TV COMMERCIAL: Honda Launches Jazz in India || TopINews Blog

i can't connect how 'why so serious' message is conveyed in that ad.
SilentEngine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 18:01   #358
Senior - BHPian
 
ph03n!x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Madras
Posts: 1,705
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

This reminds me of the Indian political scene- how a bad-party (i20) comes to power because the alternative is the worse-party (Jazz)!!

Now, now, don't take me literally- both are good products. I felt that a i20, thoug loaded, is not VFM at all- Jazz just bet that!!!
ph03n!x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 18:22   #359
Senior - BHPian
 
prince_pervez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redwood shores, CA, USA
Posts: 4,205
Thanked: 30 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Guys, can we focus back on the "Test Drive and Review" of Jazz instead of the price war!
I wanted to post something similar a long time back, buttt, price bracket in which a car is placed is also very important. Its just not all tyres and cc and torque. Money to be shelled is also an important part of a review.

Maybe from next time we should have 2 seperate threads on 'Technical' review and 'General Marketing strategies', for a new car.
Hence people who are genuinely interested in the specs and initial review and stick to the earlier option and the rest draw swords in the latter.
prince_pervez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 18:27   #360
Senior - BHPian
 
AbhiJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,298
Thanked: 462 Times
Default

Does any one have access to acceleration figures i20 vs. jazz?

0-60, 0-100 and in-gear acceleration figures??
AbhiJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 2015 Honda Jazz (3rd-gen) JayPrashanth The Indian Car Scene 1642 8th July 2015 14:03
Honda issues recall for faulty power window switch on 2nd-Gen City Achyuth Vaibhav The Indian Car Scene 13 3rd July 2013 09:46
Honda to raise car prices, and Jazz launch soon. EDIT : Jazz spotted testing on pg.14 GeekSrik The Indian Car Scene 463 9th March 2010 11:17
Honda/Toyota cars considered very boring by 2nd Gen NRI kids? pgsagar The International Automotive Scene 23 6th February 2010 21:11


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:29.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks