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Old 15th June 2009, 10:45   #391
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There is a lot of talk about paying a premium for reliablity. A few days back I saw a current generation Toyota Camry being towed. It wasn't an accident case, probably a break down. It can happen to the best of them.

As for the Linea niggling issues, only 2 owners are talking about falling plastics in that thread. And the whole thread talks about poor plastics and chrome strips coming off. Not a single owner has spoken about mechanical problems yet the car gets a dedicated niggling issues thread.

In the recent past, if any car deserved a thread like this it's the SX4. My car has had engine mountings, drive shaft and clutch replaced within the first year of ownership. I'd take poor plastics and chrome strips coming off over all that anyday!
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Old 15th June 2009, 10:47   #392
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Some posts seem to suggest that the well-to-do are willing to shell down Rs 8-9 L for just about anything. It's not always a question of affordability alone. I personally can afford a car in that range and am willing to pay that for a hatchback too. But there is a certain value that even I expect for my money. I've said this earlier - a premium hatchback is expected to have premium features too.
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Old 15th June 2009, 10:58   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBlazer View Post
Some posts seem to suggest that the well-to-do are willing to shell down Rs 8-9 L for just about anything. It's not always a question of affordability alone. I personally can afford a car in that range and am willing to pay that for a hatchback too. But there is a certain value that even I expect for my money. I've said this earlier - a premium hatchback is expected to have premium features too.
+1 to that. Exactly my view. It not about affordability, its Value for my hard earned Money, not paying for the **Premium** Tag. I expect premium features in a premium car & ain't gonna pay for the Badge. I have no issues with the car, it seems good, but they need to get a reality check if they are serious about India. Honda is a 'very' ordinary brand outside of India & so are Hyundai or Suzuki.

But then again, Why So Serious?

Last edited by anilkalvani : 15th June 2009 at 10:59.
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Old 15th June 2009, 11:09   #394
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Don't want to go offtopic, buttttttttttttttt:

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
A few days back I saw a current generation Toyota Camry being towed.
Presuming that it was a breakdown (and not that the car ran out of fuel), just because Toyota is the pioneer of reliability doesn't mean not a single Toyota will break down. What it means is this : The number of problems per 100, 1000, 100000 or 1000000 cars will be the lowest. The exceedingly low failure rate of Toyotas is simply unmatched.

Quote:
Not a single owner has spoken about mechanical problems yet the car gets a dedicated niggling issues thread.
Too early for a Linea to fail mechanically, isn't it? Also, that thread is started by a potential owner who is concerned about the Linea's niggling issues & rough edges.
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Old 15th June 2009, 11:15   #395
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
There is a lot of talk about paying a premium for reliablity. A few days back I saw a current generation Toyota Camry being towed. It wasn't an accident case, probably a break down. It can happen to the best of them.

As for the Linea niggling issues, only 2 owners are talking about falling plastics in that thread. And the whole thread talks about poor plastics and chrome strips coming off. Not a single owner has spoken about mechanical problems yet the car gets a dedicated niggling issues thread.

In the recent past, if any car deserved a thread like this it's the SX4. My car has had engine mountings, drive shaft and clutch replaced within the first year of ownership. I'd take poor plastics and chrome strips coming off over all that anyday!
Very true, once i saw a Merc S-Class being towed away in Gurgaon. The front suspension had failed. In fact the cheapest of indian cars (M800) has had one of the lowest break down rates and have been known to be extremly reliable due to its simple construction. Beamers, Mercs and lot of other luxury cars fail from time to time due to their complexity.
I too have had cosmetic issues with my linea, but nothing mechanical. It has been a pleasure to drive, so far !
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Old 15th June 2009, 11:25   #396
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Originally Posted by BeamerBoy View Post
Premium for reliability! That's what is difficult to digest. I see someone agreeing to the point. Cars of today have a reasonable level of reliability built into them & therefore the point was that there is no logic to command a hefty premium for something that is readily available (reliability).

I searched for threads/links highlighting Jazz to be a VFM offer. Sorry! Couldn't find any. It is priced above what it could have actually been from the customer's perspective.

Now looking at Honda's perspective. Accord, CRV, Civic & ANHC are comfortably placed. So are the dealers. There is no one giving a serious fight for a market share (Toyota? Hyundai? Scoda? VW? Not yet.). Looking at the retail network, Honda's network is not structured to handle mass market. At least Ring Road Honda (New Delhi) will not be able to cope even with an additional 5% increase in the car park. Times are tough & Honda has a desirable car. Why not sell it at a premium? A hefty premium...err! add a little bit more. If someone is paying, keep it coming.

They did that with the Hybrid!
Providing reliability for no cost extra should be the way any manufacturer should think, which should be the strategy to say they are a better brand. For a premium anyone can provide reliability.

Reliability is something which is an internal target, motto or wish which every company should have as their basic quality. Asking the customer to pay for a such a car is certainly a bad model for others.

Last edited by agbenny : 15th June 2009 at 11:31.
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Old 15th June 2009, 11:37   #397
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Reliability should be second nature to car manufacturers and their products. But they are smart enough to know that there are a majority of people with the 'Mileage kitna hain? " attitude and status quo.
So it is easy to market 'Premium for reliability" in India.
Probably in other countries where Mileage and status quo does not move an inch due to their facilities which take them from point A to B, they are the ones who might be getting reliability first, then mileage etc.
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Old 15th June 2009, 11:45   #398
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Too early for a Linea to fail mechanically, isn't it? Also, that thread is started by a potential owner who is concerned about the Linea's niggling issues & rough edges.
Exactly! That was me! Guilty as accused!

And it was in that thread that I realized that in fact there are only 2 owners having repeatedly serious issues. Otherwise it was getting very overwhelming to figure out what is the extent of initial niggling issues and how many people are facing it. Now only because of the discussion in that thread I am more assured that issues are indeed minor ones (as of now, too early to comment on mechanical issues), and though I am disappointed with quality & fragility of Linea plastics, probably that won't now stop me from going for it. I don't know why few of owners took it so defensively in that thread, many owners took it in the right spirit. Especially, I am very impressed with VahanPujari's passionate yet objective about his Linea approach.

BTW, Amit it was your thread which stopped me from buying SX4, though my close neighbor who bought SX4 9 months ago is enjoying it without any problem.

Anyway! Let's continue discussion about Jazz here, rather than going OT.
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Old 15th June 2009, 12:57   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Presuming that it was a breakdown (and not that the car ran out of fuel), just because Toyota is the pioneer of reliability doesn't mean not a single Toyota will break down. What it means is this : The number of problems per 100, 1000, 100000 or 1000000 cars will be the lowest. The exceedingly low failure rate of Toyotas is simply unmatched.
No one in the world doubts that. Besides, that was put in here to point out that breakdowns can happen to anyone. That's why I said in that very same post that:

Quote:
It can happen to the best of them.
If I wanted to paint Toyota's unreliable I would have started a new dedicated thread on how a expensive Camry was spotted being towed and how car makers are ripping off Indian's with premium prices and giving us poor quality in return. And I suspect this is exactly what would have happened if someone had spotted a Mondeo, Vectra or Passat being towed like that.

Quote:
Too early for a Linea to fail mechanically, isn't it? Also, that thread is started by a potential owner who is concerned about the Linea's niggling issues & rough edges.
Why is it too early? My SX4 had mechanical problems from day one. Everything is there on my SX4 thread and surprise surprise a lot of other owners reported on the same issues over there.

Quote:
Exactly! That was me! Guilty as accused
Why guilty? It's a lovely thread if it grabs the manufacturer's attention and forces to them take quick corrective measures.

Anyway lets back to the topic and lets not get so serious about the Jazz. Even Honda is asking us 'Why so serious?' now.

Last edited by amit : 15th June 2009 at 13:03.
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Old 15th June 2009, 14:14   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBlazer View Post
Some posts seem to suggest that the well-to-do are willing to shell down Rs 8-9 L for just about anything. It's not always a question of affordability alone. I personally can afford a car in that range and am willing to pay that for a hatchback too. But there is a certain value that even I expect for my money. I've said this earlier - a premium hatchback is expected to have premium features too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilkalvani View Post
+1 to that. Exactly my view. It not about affordability, its Value for my hard earned Money, not paying for the **Premium** Tag. I expect premium features in a premium car & ain't gonna pay for the Badge. I have no issues with the car, it seems good, but they need to get a reality check if they are serious about India. Honda is a 'very' ordinary brand outside of India & so are Hyundai or Suzuki.

But then again, Why So Serious?
Ditto my Views as well.
At times, to analyse complex situations, my mind goes to age-old theory of simplicity. For 8.5 L - 9 L what do I get ? a 1.2 L refined Engine which though may be costlier but no better than performance of much-cheaper Ritz's engine, I get questionable Ride Quality & Handling, I get a city-car which is not advisable/ suitable to be taken out of city on highways, then I get nice little interiors with very high quality of Plastics & ergonomically designed interiors, then I get 10 Cup-holders & Magic Seats where I can load a tall plant or a bicycle, then I get comfortable seating space for 4 people & have to politely avoid 5th person on-board, then I get Honda badge & Reliability, then I get higher possibility of a good resale, And I get service station network limited to certain cities.
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Old 15th June 2009, 14:40   #401
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
The price difference between Sonalika and Qualis was upwards of 1.5 lakhs.



I imagine you are comparing i20 base with Jazz (ABS+ Airbags).... Imagine a scenario with A Star Zxi and i20 Asta, A Star might end up being more reliable than i20, so is the premium worth?



Depends on your definition of middle class. Many who drive a two wheeler consider themselves middle class.
Would suggest not to make generalizations\comments based on caste colour status or sex in a public forum. My family and I have had no vehicles( read 2 or 4 wheeler) throughout my birth till i reached the age of 28. My first car was a used ford taurus in US and i drive an indigo to work. I still consider myself middle-class. Your last statement doesnt go well in the spirit of free spech and forum rules.
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Old 15th June 2009, 14:47   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Ditto my Views as well.
At times, to analyse complex situations, my mind goes to age-old theory of simplicity. For 8.5 L - 9 L what do I get ? a 1.2 L refined Engine which though may be costlier but no better than performance of much-cheaper Ritz's engine, I get questionable Ride Quality & Handling, I get a city-car which is not advisable/ suitable to be taken out of city on highways, then I get nice little interiors with very high quality of Plastics & ergonomically designed interiors, then I get 10 Cup-holders & Magic Seats where I can load a tall plant or a bicycle, then I get comfortable seating space for 4 people & have to politely avoid 5th person on-board, then I get Honda badge & Reliability, then I get higher possibility of a good resale, And I get service station network limited to certain cities.
Great observations !!

After this and extrem_torque's views about Honda not being a company known for producing reliable cars, it will open the eyes of so many to-be customers (but they are blind you see)
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Old 15th June 2009, 14:55   #403
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has anyone booked the car yet ?
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Old 15th June 2009, 15:23   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpbhatt View Post
Would suggest not to make generalizations\comments based on caste colour status or sex in a public forum. My family and I have had no vehicles( read 2 or 4 wheeler) throughout my birth till i reached the age of 28. My first car was a used ford taurus in US and i drive an indigo to work. I still consider myself middle-class. Your last statement doesnt go well in the spirit of free spech and forum rules.
+1 to your response. I myself bought my first vehicle when I was 31.

But personally I am deaf and dumb for these kind of comments and are not really concerned with what others thinks, I rely on my own mind to make perceptions.

Anyway back to Jazz discussion, I myself was looking forward to replace my awesome Palio by this year end and looking forward to Jazz for definetly better Honda reliability. But just after looking at the price I took a U-turn and back to my Fiat and will be going either with Grand Punto or Linea. I haven't faced any issue because of Fiat in my 3 yrs association with Palio. Not a single rattle till date, not even a loose screw noise from anywhere. And driving it is a pleasure and on highways WOW WOW that is too much.
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Old 15th June 2009, 16:38   #405
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I saw an Jazz on the road yesterday. So the deliveries have already begun!!
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