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Old 18th June 2009, 16:34   #451
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Great write-up GTO...
JAZZ to jazz indian roads and indian pockets too...I am sure somebody comparing i20 and Jazz, value-for-money would certainly be i20. But complaints about poor powertrain in i20 against weight it holds, will force buyers to think about Jazz. I read i20 has poor performance on hilly areas. Not to forget:The Jazz's 1.2L SOHC 16v iVtec engine is rated at 89 BHP (most power of a 1.2 in the country).
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Old 18th June 2009, 17:21   #452
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Originally Posted by manojks_12 View Post
Great write-up GTO...
JAZZ to jazz indian roads and indian pockets too...I am sure somebody comparing i20 and Jazz, value-for-money would certainly be i20. But complaints about poor powertrain in i20 against weight it holds, will force buyers to think about Jazz. I read i20 has poor performance on hilly areas. Not to forget:The Jazz's 1.2L SOHC 16v iVtec engine is rated at 89 BHP (most power of a 1.2 in the country).
Just a small question!
Have you actually driven the i20?
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Old 18th June 2009, 17:30   #453
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Just a small question!
Have you actually driven the i20?
he has mentioned in his post that he has only read on the i20's performance. If you feel otherwise then kindly let us know on what you felt on the i20's performance. i too havent driven the i20 but as i gather from some of the TD reviews the engine does seem to be a little underpowered compared to the bulk of the car.
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Old 18th June 2009, 19:43   #454
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The Grande Punto petrol (1.4L 90bhp) should fit the bill neatly here.
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Old 19th June 2009, 01:34   #455
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Honda charges a premium upfront but at least I havent heart stories of engine mountings, driveshaft, clutch, plastic, chrome strips replacement from Honda owners in the first few months of ownership.
In the threads of the car in question here (since the discussion started from there apparently), there were only 2 owners who had plastic issue & both were solved by the MFR. None of the owners have reported any issue with engine parts - engine mountings, driveshaft, clutch. For Honda, leave aside other threads reg issues, in this very thread, a Civic owner himself has mentioned how he with his family got harrassed with his Civic stalling midways on highway at midnights & continue to stall thereafter, the Dealer not rectifying it & in fact putting fabricated components in his Civic, He has written to Honda to no avail.

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Bringing back the point, that manfacturers should not compromise on quality by building a car to price.
Sure. But charging a hefty premium & not giving quality is a crime (This forum is full of views that ANHC plastics are poor).
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1) Charge a higher price upfront and not compromise on quality
2) Reduce the number of features for better quality. Given the choice I would rather go for a car without climatronic, but which is manfactured with good grade parts that just dont fall off in the first few months of ownership.
Sure. Assuming your argument that a car has poor plastic is true (though it has come out only in couple of cases here), the MFR can easily fix it at about Rs. 10K. On the other hand another MFR has already charged a hefty premium - how is he gonna give Climate control, Alloys, Rear AC vents, Rear Sun blind, Bluetooth connectivity with Voice Recognition, USB & CD Player together, Speed-Volume auto control & so on - at how much price that he would need to increase to give all these? Then we'll come to an Apple-to-Apple comparison. Than the question is - for that substantially increased price, Do I still want Plastic quality (which is still questionable)?
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I think the strategy by some manfacturers for India is to throw a good looking product with poor plastics, boring engine options, at a relatively LOW price to get the sales charts ticking initially. But what happens is that over a period of time, with ownership reports pouring in, the dent to the image of the company sets in, resulting in low resale value!
Suggest you visit all New-car Ownership Threads of the manufacturer in question here & also visit the thread(s) of that Civic customer.

All other points are covered by Joylicx

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Well your reliability argument has no takers! Almost all cars available (even good ol 800) are super reliable. I have friends driving Santros and WagonRs for 6-7 years without any problems!

As regards to plastics and all - would you rather pay 2 lakhs more for better plastics? Probably that is the big Q!



Again havent owned Honda so no idea about all this. A friend of mine has the NHC and once a Qualis scraped by driver's side taking off his rear-view mirror. Replacement cost him ~ 3000 rupees and that he had to pay from his pocked as it was more of less equal to no claim bonus. Hondas can be expansive to maintain as well



Quality is a very subjective thing and Honda has no sole copyrights on it. You seem to imply all the other cars in India except Honda will just fall in parts at the next instant. It isint the case. The climatronic in Swift works fine for years. And then there is one in Civic. Does it fall apart after few months? If it can be offered in Civic then why not in City or Jazz? And that Hondas farcical argument about alloys. They are not needed in smaller cars like Jazz/City!!! Its nonsense.

Its like having a 100 rupee Daal Roti plate for 1000 in a 5 star restaurant and feeling satisfied!! What was premium about it?



This is not really true. I guess almost all manufacturers offer more exciting engine options than Honda (remember 77 bhp NHC engine! it was super exciting Right?) ANHCs plastics are also poor (compared to NHC), Honda is going backwards with its new launches (just living on early goodwill). Both ANHC and Jazz are disappointing (compared to what Honda had earlier). Lets see how well they continue doing in future. Goodwill generally holds only for a certain time.
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Old 19th June 2009, 07:45   #456
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Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
he has mentioned in his post that he has only read on the i20's performance. If you feel otherwise then kindly let us know on what you felt on the i20's performance. i too havent driven the i20 but as i gather from some of the TD reviews the engine does seem to be a little underpowered compared to the bulk of the car.
It doesn't feel underpowered at all!!! Surprise! Surprise!
Just go and TD yourself.
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Old 19th June 2009, 08:31   #457
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one can now understand why new City was priced higher than expected. i guess their plan was to position jazz at the old City levels and stick the new City between Jazz and Civic. Honda knows they can gamble with higher price as long as Toyota is not present in that space. I sometimes wonder why Toyota is letting Honda have such a roll?
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Old 19th June 2009, 09:43   #458
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Originally Posted by androdev
one can now understand why new City was priced higher than expected. i guess their plan was to position jazz at the old City levels and stick the new City between Jazz and Civic.
Yeah, I was thinking about the same thing yesterday. From a starting price of 7.4L for NHC, the jumped straight to 9L for the ANHC. Which made them position the Jazz at the space vacated by NHC.

Nice move, but time will tell whether things will work out as they think it will. I had previously mentioned that they will get away with this high pricing, but am having second thoughts this time around.
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Old 19th June 2009, 09:59   #459
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I was talking to Magnum Honda folks yesterday as i had been there to test drive Jazz. I was told that they are getting lots of TD requests for Jazz but final response is negative and major issue is price. But interesting point is, Magnum claims that ANHC numbers have gone of significantly as since Jazz is almost as close to ANHC, people prefer to go with ANHC.

Even, one of my friend did the same, he waiting long for Honda to launch Jazz, but now after TD, he has decided to go back to ANHC as it is almost close to Jazz in price and offers better value.

May be June numbers would give better picture as what i am telling here is only what i heard from Magnum Honda - Bangalore.

Also I took Jazz for TD and it is a good car with lots of space in side. Frankly, given an option, i wouldn't go for it - i would simply add a lac more and pick a ANHC.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:17   #460
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We can't be fooled into buying Honda's overpriced stuff all the time. Sure there's always this "Honda is Honda" junta with too much money to spare (unfortunately there are such ppl on TBHP too).

I personally know a person who has taken back his booking amount paid for jazz. The dealership people said that many people are cancelling bookings and were really upset with Honda's pricing strategy.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:33   #461
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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
We can't be fooled into buying Honda's overpriced stuff all the time. Sure there's always this "Honda is Honda" junta with too much money to spare (unfortunately there are such ppl on TBHP too).
Ooops! you had to make that sweeping statement didn't you and throw a big rock at the killer bee's nest

On the lines of Jazz being overpriced, this might just boost the ANHC sales for a while and then after a couple of months the prices would be corrected to suit the earthy beings.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:52   #462
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On the lines of Jazz being overpriced, this might just boost the ANHC sales for a while and then after a couple of months the prices would be corrected to suit the earthy beings.
+1 and new variants with AT option will be launched. (I Hope)
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:57   #463
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I am NOT making a generalization that anyone who buys a Honda is stinking rich and doesn't care about money.
Rather, in the jazz's context, inspite of the price defying all logics, there are "some" who are saying "Honda is Honda" and trying to justify the price.

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Ooops! you had to make that sweeping statement didn't you and throw a big rock at the killer bee's nest
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Old 19th June 2009, 11:02   #464
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For Sale , Honda badge. 8L OTR*

*Comes with Free car!
Honda ads look like these to most people I guess
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Old 19th June 2009, 11:41   #465
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Honda ads look like these to most people I guess
So, if i were to just steal the badge and adorn it on some other car, would that boost up the resale value?
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