2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review

[ramzsys]

These ISZ engines are the lifeline of the amby. TDi gives good numbers in the paper, but the response of the drivetrain to the pedals is very analog.
The disc brakes at front, and the change to girling-type drums at the rear had certainly improved braking.
The current suspension setup is more than sufficient to handle the worse of indian roads. I have seen some garages attempting coil spring conversion at rear(not standalone, but added to the existing leaf suspension) and there is minor though appreciable improvement in ride. Existing 165/80 R15 will suffice for the handling and ride, as any further widening gives marginal improvements only. Ride quality is still comparable to modern cars, i think because of the Wishbone suspension(front).
I have heard of higher priced spares for the ISZ engine. Opening an indica D engine will cost minimum of 10k, but for ISZ they bring it to 30k. But as my mechanic vouches, a 3 lakh km run engine sounds the same as a new engine.
HM Garages are doing the new engine conversion(the amount for diesel engine+GB is 1.3L without labour) for older cars-this is the only legal route to get engine endorsements from RTO.
HM sells a 1.5(1489cc) ancient diesel mill as an option. This unit has no PS and any sane cabbie will buy an indica NA over this.
New AMBY's are having door closing like MM540 jeeps(no low frequency sounds).
Koyas@ coimbatore takes care of the complete interiors, transforming this car into a leather couch.
One of my relative had installed a G1(2.4L) into a 1975 chassis, 2002 shell. I felt the power surge only in this AMBY. He is getting around 15-16 with AC, speeds ~100 kmph.
@JKDAS
Black smoke can be seen on all modern CRDis too-when accelerated hard. So, if precise electronic injections gives such smoke, what can be said of mechanic IDI pumps? Also many ISZs are junked engines from abroad.

[R.K.Ramesh]

The dear ol Amby has tons of character and though despised earlier for it's bloated looks, it actually looks nice now amongst the latest crop. Guess it has finally aged gracefully. Not too fond of those ill fitted plactic bumpers.

A neater design more rounded and better fitted would have been more suitable to the design DNA of the car me thinks.

While the rear seats are nice, I find the front leg space lacking a biut with rather shallow foot wells. Also I dont entirely agree with the ' superlative ' ride that people sing paens about. I always found the Premier 118 and especiually the Contessa to have a softer and more cossetting ride which was very comfortable till 80-100kmph. After this all these softly sprung cars didnt inspire confidence.

Also the Amby was always a monocoque desing and not a body on chassis construction as seen in a Mahindra or Tatamobile. Of course it didnt come with modern crumple zones and collapsable steering coloumns which is not too difficult to re engineer (surprised why they haven't done it yet - if they haven't). And yes while the car didnt seem too damaged in moderate crashes the impact transfer to the passengers is greater than many later cars the 118 NE (a design which was 10 years younger than the Morris Oxford Series III nee our Amby) included which is safer for the passengers.

I personally feel that they should have kept with the Avigo's retro interiors which was so much nicer (thought not too well executed) than the current cardboard like horror.

Headlights and front grille that blend in better with the rounded design would be welcome. However I hear that the ackwardly protruding front grille and bumpers is an attempt by Hm to add a limited crumple zone as passive safety during lower speed crashes.

Nice to be driven around in but for a car that promises so much cossetting, nostalgia and hints of luxury from a by gone era, I'd like to see better noise insulation, doors that close and sound more solid and a better touch and feel points at least for the passengers like better handles, good quality switches and controls.

While the Contessa could have taken the Amby's place for most of the Babudom's needs...it doesn't exude that charm. Perhaps an altogether new design grounds up inspired by the Amby will go a long way in the market at least in India and UK I feel...

What do you think about this folks? As an auto stylists I am beginning to think on these lines...

[Sivam]

[quote=ramzsys;1362670]
One of my relative had installed a G1(2.4L) into a 1975 chassis, 2002 shell. I felt the power surge only in this AMBY. He is getting around 15-16 with AC, speeds ~100 kmph.

I'm not sure that is right. The Amby is a monocoque design. So there is no separate chassis. There is a body shell to which the front and the rear suspension are connected with subframes. Your relative is probably running a new shell on his old car registration.

[premjit]

Good review Sid...

Made me nostalgic about the Car i learnt driving on...a 1965 Amby with a steering mounted gearshift.

The best thing about the Amby apart from the Space (Front, Rear and Boot) was the way one could mod it...You could start off with a Mark II, Add a sticker and make it Mark III, IV and Nova...just by changing the sticker. More picky enthusiasts didnt forget to shift the wiper positioning from centre clean (Mark II, III) to Side sweep (Mark IV). There was just a rexine roof liner which was modded by my dad to a velvet one which had lights built into it. The standard dash was replaced with a wooden fabrication...

Wow...Wotta car.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

[raveen_2023]

Other than Amby enthusiasts, no body really wants an amby in their garage. Its time for a radical redesign.

[Retro Dalliance]

Guys, I've read a lot of posts on Team BHP with a great deal of interest but this is the first time I'm actually posting. The news is that that after one year of cajoling a swiss friend to sell me his Avigo I've finally got my hands on the car. I've always liked the avigo, its got serious charm and yes I do realise that its not a very utile car. But in any case form was more important to me; didn't want to drive around just another plastic box. The car is in great shape, just done about 20,000 kms but it is a diesel and makes quite a racket. I need some help guys , don't know too much about cars, ahve always been a biker. So any inputs would be helpful.

1. Engine insulation - Is there any way to make this car quieter?
2. I'm almost embarassed to say this but I have no idea if my car is the turbocharged 74 bhp diesel or the 55 bhp. It sure feels like a 55 bhp :(. Did the avigo come with the latter? Is there any way to soup up the performance a bit?
3. Switches and interiors - You guessed it, Leo toys have better finish. I'm in Delhi, can anyone recomend someone who can give me better switches, latches etc?
4. I don't have power windows. Can these be installed? How much would it cost and where can I get that done?
5. The lights are really quite poor. Is there any way to get a better headlamp beam on the Avigo?
6. No issues with the bumpers, they have to go, I think the car will look much better with the chrome bumpers

Basically I've got the car but now I need to figure out how to get the fittings up to speed with the modern cars. I love the look but not the rest of it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[musicmanaman]

Originally Posted by Retro Dalliance

Guys, I've read a lot of posts on Team BHP with a great deal of interest but this is the first time I'm actually posting. The news is that that after one year of cajoling a swiss friend to sell me his Avigo I've finally got my hands on the car. I've always liked the avigo, its got serious charm and yes I do realise that its not a very utile car. But in any case form was more important to me; didn't want to drive around just another plastic box. The car is in great shape, just done about 20,000 kms but it is a diesel and makes quite a racket. I need some help guys , don't know too much about cars, ahve always been a biker. So any inputs would be helpful.

Congrats

1. Engine insulation - Is there any way to make this car quieter?

No idea, but I'm sure it can be done.

2. I'm almost embarassed to say this but I have no idea if my car is the turbocharged 74 bhp diesel or the 55 bhp. It sure feels like a 55 bhp :(. Did the avigo come with the latter? Is there any way to soup up the performance a bit?

I think you have the 55 bhp Version.

3. Switches and interiors - You guessed it, Leo toys have better finish. I'm in Delhi, can anyone recomend someone who can give me better switches, latches etc?

You are better off keeping them the way they are, if they are funtioning well.

4. I don't have power windows. Can these be installed? How much would it cost and where can I get that done?

I'm sure this can be done.

5. The lights are really quite poor. Is there any way to get a better headlamp beam on the Avigo?

The problem with the Avigo is not the power of the lights, but to get them to focus on the road, becasue of the way it has been made, it usually does not focus on the road, I'm yet to fix this issue on my Avigo.

6. No issues with the bumpers, they have to go, I think the car will look much better with the chrome bumpers

I think you should not do this, the Chrome bumpers would not look good on the Avigo. The Avigo came with good bumpers and I would suggest you keep them that way.

Basically I've got the car but now I need to figure out how to get the fittings up to speed with the modern cars. I love the look but not the rest of it.

Try and love the car in totality for what it is, don't try and make it something is can't become, that's my honest suggestion.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I would strongly suggest you drive the car the way it is for atleast 10k, get to know more about the car, before you try and do anything serious.
For now, just make sure the fluids are good, you may want to change the engine oil, check the break fluid levels, break pads and shoes, simple stuff.

Some photo's of your Avigo, if you could upload them would be nice. I think you are the second Avigo owner in the forum after me.

Thanks

My comments are in bold above.

[anekho]

Nice review.

Originally Posted by sidindica

One line: Give it a seat in Rajya Sabha.

lol. Stolen from Autocar?

[Gilead]

Nice review. Brought back a lot of old memories. But I would be too embarrased to sit in a car that says "This car is having mobile charger facility" lol

[Retro Dalliance]

Originally Posted by musicmanaman

My comments are in bold above.

Musicmananthanksman!

Super of you to take the time to send in your inputs. Very helpful! I'll upload the snaps, just give me a couple of days, want to get the car serviced and polished Its been standing idle for almost five months. The cool part is that it started at first go. Its in great shape but there's a bit of body rattle which for the life of me I can't figure out the source of. Rest is fine. Do you think the chrome mudguards would look bad on the Avigo??? I had a feeling they may look rather nice. Anyway I'll try it on photoshop before I actually get it done. Its a pity about the headlamps, I had the feeling that the wattage was completely inadequate too but maybe my car's battery is down. Second owner on the forum eh! Thats a lot of consolation, I feel pretty unique on the road

[Retro Dalliance]

Originally Posted by Retro Dalliance

Musicmananthanksman!

Super of you to take the time to send in your inputs. Very helpful! I'll upload the snaps, just give me a couple of days, want to get the car serviced and polished Its been standing idle for almost five months. The cool part is that it started at first go. Its in great shape but there's a bit of body rattle which for the life of me I can't figure out the source of. Rest is fine. Do you think the chrome mudguards would look bad on the Avigo??? I had a feeling they may look rather nice. Anyway I'll try it on photoshop before I actually get it done. Its a pity about the headlamps, I had the feeling that the wattage was completely inadequate too but maybe my car's battery is down. Second owner on the forum eh! Thats a lot of consolation, I feel pretty unique on the road

Hey there Musicman!

Am glad to say that the car is back on rad and is doing pretty well. I've spent about 15 grands getting the dents out, some work on the suspension. Have a feeling that I've been fleeced but at least the work seems to have been done well. The only things which are still niggling me is that the car pulls to the left on braking hard and sometimes the accelerator doesn't decelerate immediately after taking my foot off the pedal. Any idea why that could be the case.
Lastly man, I know you told me to accept it for what it is but the engine is just tooooo chilled out. I mean its got no power happening with the aircon. Do you think I can get it upgraded to the 74 bhp turbo or is that a completely different engine?

Thanks again

Meraj

[Retro Dalliance]

Hi Sid,

Read your review with great interest. I have an Avigo and it suffers from all that you've outlined. But its also a wonderful looking car, has great character and is quite a head-turner

Its also got the 50 bhp diesel which is absolutely no good. Reading your experience of the 74 bhp turbocharged variant made my mouth water Do you think there's any chance I can get my engine turbocharged ( which shouldnt be a problem if its essentially the same engine). If so how much do you think it might cost? Any pointers on where I can get it done would be really helpful!

Thanks!

Meraj

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Retro Dalliance

Its also got the 50 bhp diesel which is absolutely no good. Reading your experience of the 74 bhp turbocharged variant made my mouth water Do you think there's any chance I can get my engine turbocharged

Don't even think of going down that alley. Adding a turbo is an exceedingly complicated process. In all probability, you will lose your sleep, a boot load of money and whatever reliability your car has. If you want more power from the Amby, transplant a Contessa 1.8 L petrol engine. It's a bolt on fit, done several times earlier and comes cheap (petrol 1.8s go for 10,000 - 20,000 rupees).

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by nitrous

The Petrol engine's air filter tells me it is a Throttle body Injection type.
Can someone confirm?

I think the picture is the CNG version with single injector. Otherwise the ISZ is a MPFI.