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Old 22nd June 2009, 15:51   #1
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Default 2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review

The first Indian car.
A car that has transported billions of Indians and many generations in safety and unbeatable back seat comfort for the past 51 years.
A car that refuses to die.
Its not just a car, its a legend. A legend that lives today, even after the advent of modern cars right from Maruti to Maybach.

Its called the Ambassador.
In another team bhp first and exclusive, we are proud to present you a comprehensive test drive of our national pride, brand new upgraded BS-3 Amby with an upgraded 2.0 diesel engine which is now available with a turbocharger and intercooler an an upgraded isuzu-powered 1.8 petrol.

The big question is, the Amby soldiers on and on, even though it receives an upgrade here, a facelift there, but does it still have any relevance in our modern post-independent economy? Or is it time for a dignified retirement?
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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:08   #2
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Model tested: HM Ambassador

varient: Grand petrol 1.8 and turbo diesel 2.0

colour:crystal white

date: June 23, 2009

Overall rating:**

Exteriors:***

As we all know, little has changed since the production of this car started way back in 1958 based on the then morris oxford-3 platform.

The current model is only available in the "grand" trim level with about 18-20 varients in terms of features, body colour bumpers are now standard across all varients whereas the chromed "classic" varients are only sold to taxis.

Actually that was the varient that gave the car its identity and even today majority of the amby lovers think that the classic looks timeless and far better than the grand and the once shortlived varient-the avigo, which is no longer in production due to dismal sales.

The models received cosmetic changes in form of new crystal headlights, new clear lens diamond cut taillights, option of beige and black interiors (for government fleets), new front and rear plastic body coloured bumpers and new side turn indicators.

In the new TCIC diesel model, the front end is more aquarish from the bottom to make space for an intercooler, hence it looks more different from the petrol grand.

For economy and environment minded, a CNG varient is also available (HARIT C 1800).

The car still looks good, but little has changed as regards to build quality and finish. The paint job is shoddy, with peeling off visible in brand new cars, doors now do not close with that "thunk" and the tyres (165/80 R 15) are a size too thin.

However, the new plastic bumpers make the car more weird and strange, especially the new 2.0 TCIC with that squarish front end.
Attached Thumbnails
2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00521.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00496.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00497.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00498.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00522.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00523.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00539.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00531.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00532.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00533.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00534.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00535.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00537.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00538.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00524.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00527.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00528.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00529.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00530.jpg  

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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:17   #3
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INTERIORS:

Design:**
Functionality and ergonomics:**
Space:****
Front seat comfort:****
Back seat comfort:*****

Some major changes have now taken place in the interiors such as addition of options like power windows, central locking, MP3 player, built-to-order sunroof, moulded roof lining, mobile charging point, moulded door trims etc.

Still the interior dashboard design reeks 80s. It looks and feels like a cardboard built with beige painted all over and that spindly gear lever sticks out like a sore thumb. The power window switches for all doors are placed on the central console, not very driver friendly. However, rear passengers also have window controls on the doors. there are still 60s ancient control stacks for light and wipers, finished with ill-fitted plastic which looks as if it will break apart anytime it is used again and again.

The best part, and the car's core values are the seats. It can easily teach modern cars a thing or two when it comes to overall seat comfort.

Outstanding. The best word to describe its rear seat comfort. Even after hours of travelling, one does not get stressed due to perfect sofa-like contours and fantastic under thigh support. It is high, wide and body hugging.
In higher variants, rear armrest is optional as are the rear AC vents.

The front buckets are also very comfy (bench seats are optional) but the base is a bit flat. Even though, lumbar support is fantastic and again, the seats are high and wide and more comfortable than many of todays mid-size cars. Sliding and reclinig mechanism is standard for both driver and front passenger.

The boot in today's models are however a bit small and flat due to modifications done in BS-3 models in housing the fuel tank. In CNG models, still the boot is adequate for luggage like 3 medium suitcases.

Other optional items include rear reading lights, rear seat tray and power steering.
Attached Thumbnails
2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00513.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00540.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00502.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00503.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00504.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00505.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00506.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00507.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00508.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00509.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00510.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00511.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00512.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00514.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00515.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00516.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00517.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00518.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00519.jpg  


Last edited by sidindica : 22nd June 2009 at 16:32.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:29   #4
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Nice review Sid.

This is one car which refuses to die. I'm pretty sure that if HM would have let this car evolve into a good design, the car would definitely have done well and give a good competition to the Tata Indigo.

Some design changes which they could incorporate into the car :

Headlight / Tail-light integrated into the body panels rather than sticking out.
Sloping bonnet and boot to give it a more aerodynamic look.

In the late 90's DC had sketched a design for the Ambassador which had appeared in Auto India. The design was too good and HM should have taken some cues from that car.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:31   #5
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Its good that you are doing this. Kudos to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
there are still 60s ancient control stacks for light and wipers, finished with ill-fitted plastic which looks as if it will break apart anytime it is used again and again.
These combination switches happened as a latest development, originally there were switches beneath the central Instrument panel and the steering boss.

Curoious about how did you find the 1800 ISZ, last I drove, it was some fun as most other vehicle drivers were expressing surprise. Well a "high-powered" rear wheel drive car, should be desirable!!

Something tells me that a CRDI version is coming soon.

Last edited by 1100D : 22nd June 2009 at 16:33.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:49   #6
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Engine and performance:

1800 ISZ petrol:***
refinement:**1/2

I drove the petrol, not the CNG, even though the second picture is of the CNG kit fitted by HM.
Start the engine and it has a pretty silent and refined idle.

This engine is 1817 cc and produces 74bhp@4800 rpm and 13.5 kgm torque@3000-3500 rpm, fitted with 4 cylinder OHC mechanism combined with a 5-speed gearbox with remote shift mechanism.

The pickup is surprisingly peppy with 0-100 touched in about 16 odd seconds and the engine sounds smooth initially. However, as speeds build up, the noise level increases significantly and it whines past 5000 rpm, crying enough. We touched 130 kmph and after that, the power tapers off rapidly and its best to keep the engine in its mid-rpm range, between 2500-4000 rpm and you will never find cause to complain. For start-stop conditions, the engine is extremely tractable and downshifts are not required too often, part owed to it flat torque curve. In third gear, the car can go from 30 kmph all the way to 120 kmph without any fuss.

However, the engine is beginning to show its age. Its cast iron block and cylinder make it unnecessary heavy and even though the car is rear wheel drive, the car feels a bit nose heavy, even for a petrol.

Open the bonnet and absolute lack of sound deadening material is obvious. Noise and vibrations filter through the cabin at the front and you are aware of the engine noise all through the drive.

At the rear, the noise is a bit less due to moulded roof construction, even though passengers can tell that the engine is running when the car cruises at high speeds.
Attached Thumbnails
2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00525.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00526.jpg  

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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:50   #7
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BAd Points :

- Why do they need a sticker to announce "This car is having Mobile charger facility". Quite a cheap gimmick.

- Its a good option that they have a mobile charging outlet for various types of mobiles. But are these branded and reliable or the Rs 50/- ones you get on the road.

- Power windows switches. They could have taken it more lower so that they could be foot-operated (like foot operated handbrakes)

Good Points

- Mobile chargers
- Rear seatbelts
- Rear parcel tray
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Old 22nd June 2009, 16:51   #8
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Good review.

The switches look from an old amby era.

Like a train compartment they mention "This car is having mobile charger facility"
Why not "Seat Belt facility available".
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:03   #9
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Engine:

Diesel TCIC performance:***
refinement:*1/2

Turbocharged intercooled 1995 cc is the same isuzu engine (last pic posted) that was offered in BS-2 ambys but is now added with a turbocharger and intercooler (shown in first 3 pics) increasing power from 50bhp to 74bhp@4000 rpm and torque from 12.8 kgm to 16.5 kgm@1800-2500 rpm.

it is the same old school indirect injection with a convectional turbocharger but does its job nonetheless.

It is pretty noisy at idle and as speeds build up, it becomes noisier, with its heavy cast iron construction contributing to the cacophony. It is a simple 2 valves per cylinder SOHC design.

The increase in power and torque is immediately felt as the engine does a good job of pulling this 1630 kg behemoth. In fact, it is again pretty quick with 0-100 times dispatched in 16 odd seconds (timed on an empty stretch with a stop watch) and again, very torquey too. You can cruise along on 4th gear all day in city limits and 3rd gear is relatively short on ratos, good for driveability. Turbo lag is present and in the first 2 gears the engine is hesitant to gather speed, so it has to be whipped to get it to perform. keep the engine over 2000 rpm and you won't complain.

The biggest problem with the upgraded engine still is its refinement levels. Lack of insulation padding under the bonnet only makes things worse. It is noisy at idle, gets noisier as speeds build up and when it gets to its limits, it is as noisy as a truck.

An ancient 1.5 diesel is still available as an option (yes, for BS-3 models), but with only 36bhp and 4-speed gearbox, it is best avoided.
Attached Thumbnails
2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00499.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00500.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00501.jpg  

2009 Ambassador Grand BS-3 2.0 Turbo Diesel and 1800 ISZ MPFI: Test drive and review-dsc00520.jpg  

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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:12   #10
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In 2006, when I wanted to buy a car, I called up HM.

Fixed an appointment for Saturday but was unable to go.
Wife threatened me with rather serious consequences if I continued on this line.

On Monday a girl calls up and asked if I wanted to reschedule.
I told her that my wife is against the car and I cannot go ahead.

She replies, "Naturally, Why would she?".

HM does not intend to sell this car to the public. They are more than happy ( :( ) with the Govt biz.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:21   #11
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Had a done a review of this guy some time back @ http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...or-grande.html (A day of extended test drives - Safari 2.2, Bolero and Ambassador Grande)

But then, it was no where close to the comprehensive review that you are giving here, Sid!
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:24   #12
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other parameters:

Gearbox:**.


As expected, the truck like huge gear lever is notchy and reluctant to shift from second to third, even though HM claims to have improved the gearbox by adding remote shift mechanism (RSM).
It is heavy and baulky, both in petrol and diesel, with the petrol recording marginal better shifts than compared to the truck-like box of the TDI diesel.
Engaging the reverse requires a bit of athletism and the gearbox has absurd ratios for the diesel (very short 1st and second, medium 3rd and 4th and tall 5th).
In petrol to aid driveability and decent performance, the first 3 gears are short and he rest two are tall, but not as tall as that of the diesel.
The gearbox is derived from isuzu and is hugely improved from the earlier 4-speed box, though.

Ride:***.

Independent front suspension caliberation and rigid leaf spring suspension are still old basic crude designs, but the telescopic shockers (rear gas filled on higher grand models) keep passengers comfortable even on the worst of Indian roads and the car remains unfazed on low to moderate speeds.
The more the speeds build up, the ride improves but only just. At deep potholed roads the ride is a bit jiggly and bone jarring, and the limitations of leaf spring begin to show up as compared to more modern torsion beam and coil spring designs.

Amby was a benchmark when the modern cars were not launched in late 90s. Now the design and chassis is too old to consider it a "gadha gaadi" it once was. Thinner tyres (165/80 R 15) don't help either.

Handling:*1/2.
High speed stability:**


Front engine, rear wheel drive meant that it would be a fun to drive sedan, at least on paper. but remember that this is a 50-year old chassis which is body-on-frame, not monocoque.
So, how does it translate on road?
Steering effort is greatly reduced by the addition of power steering but the wheels feel disconnected and the steering absolute lacks feel, more so than modern front-wheel-drive cars. It behaves like an old school American sedan bloating around corners, dut to soft suspension and can be scary at high speeds. High speed stability is simply awful and the car feels that it can crash anytime if not driven at a controlled manner. Its un-aerodynamic design (remember, it is not wind-tunnel tested) makes it susceptible to crosswinds.
This car is meant to drive in sedate fashion, not like a muscle car. Otherwise, it behaves like a bulky bus.

Braking:**.

Even the addition of disc brakes have not improve its major Achilles heal: braking. pedal feel is absolutely lacking and one has to press hard to get it to stop and in this process, the car gets tail heavy.
After a series of 5 repetitive stops, the brake pad on the demo car worn out and was asking for replacement, such is its quality.
God knows what will happen if it still had drums all around. Thank God, discs are now available, don't even think of optional ABS or ventilated discs in the near future.

Overall, owing to its rather unusual pedal placement, similar to a bus, it feels as if you are driving a 5 seater bus, not a car.

Last edited by sidindica : 22nd June 2009 at 17:27.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:25   #13
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Is this Amby Bullet proof ?,
that is a feature they should make as default, just like Honda made ABS, Airbags, G-CON and Immobilizer as default.

A bullet proof Amby would be the real value proposition these days and a great value for money in its class.

but amazing to see HM is still surviving.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:38   #14
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Reliability:**
Durability:***.


Ambassadors of the earlier times are known to be extremely durable, with most cars still being driven around withstanding the abuse of Indian roads. This still stands today.
However, as the years progressed, the manufacturing techniques and the car designs became modernized, making most of today's cars as durable or even more than amby.
On the other hand, this car is still built using the same old techniques even after new dyes were developed as a result of HM's Rs. 70 crore millennium modernization program in 2000.
Build, fit and finish is still half a century behind and its safety and durability standards, as compared to today's EURO NCAP and NHTSA crash tested cars and its safety features are questionable with non existence of ABS and airbags. That said, when it comes to accidents and collisions, modern cars are damaged more as compared to the amby whose majority of sheetmetal remains intact.
The main problem with amby's design is that is does not spread impact forces evenly like modern cars, often resulting in deaths of its occupents, even in rural roads, part owed to its absence of collapsible steering wheel.

Another Achilles heal is that the car is not at all reliable, even though parts and service is easily available in any corner of our country. Frequent breakdowns and mechanical gremlins form a part of ambassador ownership experience, more so with the CNG versions.

Last edited by sidindica : 22nd June 2009 at 17:55.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:55   #15
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Buying and owning:**.

Hm has limited dealers in India for ambys, so buying one is not so easy for private use as majority of sales go to taxis, government departments and army who want a comfortable and a "safe" car. Bullet proofing is optional but is done by independent agencies, not HM. This adversely affects its performance and mileage, as the kerb weight of the car doubles or trebles, depending upon the level of protection.

Due to the cars poor manufacturing techniques, dealers completely diamantle the car for the PDI and it takes about 2-3 hours per car to complete the PDI.

The amby is available in black, silver and maroon in addition to the most common shade-crystal white and is available in 3 engine options with bench/ bucket seats, AC and non AC and various feature combinations with prices ranging from Rs 3,97,000 to 6,10,000 (OTR Delhi).

As we are aware, repairing it is cheap and easy as parts are available almost anywhere and HM has a good number of parts stockists across the country to sell and distribute parts freely at low prices.

verdict:**.


The car had everything when launched-maximum space and comfort, solid and sturdy body, good looks and rear wheel drive with robust mechanicals which can withstand the abuse of Indian roads. these core values of ambassador still stand today and even though modern terms like ABS, airbags, crash tests, monocoque, robotised construction are absent to describe this car, it still sells in decent numbers, primarily due to its USP: seat comfort and legroom due to its unique bodyshell design, which has transported countless Indian generations since independence, the past 51 years. This is the last surviving breed of RWD body-on-frame construction and only time will tell what its fate would be.

India has modernized, its citizens have modernized, and now, our own amby has modernized with constant upgrades.It still deserves more and leaves wanting for more as the car is atill not perfect and has a cruse edge to it to be considered for personal use.
Buy only if you don't drive and make a complete workhorse out of it.
This is a car that refuses to die, and as long as some demand will continue to exist, HM will keep making this car.

One line: Give it a seat in Rajya Sabha.
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