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Old 17th July 2009, 14:01   #46
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Could you post a few pics of this job please. Am curious to see what this lamination is.

Thanks,
gpa
It's just a thick sheet of plastic over the carpet.
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Old 20th July 2009, 12:17   #47
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Here's an update on the car. Even after the first service the milege is really low. Just checked and it was 13.03 Kmpl.

Date Litres ODO Dist Kmpl
27.06.09 34.20 46 46 ==
01.07.09 24.93 390 344 13.80
06.07.09 25.10 760 370 14.74
12.07.09 29.49 1172 412 13.97
20.07.09 23.87 1483 311 13.03

Full tank to full tank method used. 100% driving with AC. 70% Highway, 30% City. First 3 readings before first service. Alto owners please comment. How is this compared to your cars? I feel it is too low.

Last edited by Furious55 : 20th July 2009 at 12:20.
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Old 20th July 2009, 13:05   #48
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From the figures, it is evident that the FE is dismal and not normal at all for the Alto!

If you take a look at the LTO report of my Alto, you will see the difference in FE. Let's look a a few possible areas that reflect on this.
  1. Did you change the engine oil at the 1'st free service?
  2. Considering that the Alto doesn't have a tacho, do you strain your engine before shifting gears?
  3. Do you shift gears as per the recommended speeds in the fuel saving tips page given by MUL?
  4. Which petrol bunk do you normally fill up in?
You mentioned that you used the tank-full method, but have filled in only around 29, 25 and 23 litres each time. The Alto has a 35 litre tank and when the fuel guage needle is in the red zone it indicates roughly about 5 litres of fuel in the tank. Why don't you try running the car so that you fill about 32-33 litres of fuel and then see if there is a difference.

Once you have looked at the above 4 areas, try driving the car without the a/c on a tank full of petrol to get an idea of what the FE is like without the a/c. With your driving (70% highway) and ~1,500 kms on the odo, you should be getting a FE of about 15-16 kmpl.

Also try tanking up at a different bunk as some of them have their meters and dispensers tampered with and if you fill 1 litre, what actually goes into your tank is 900 or 950 ml.

If you still do not see a change in the overall FE, then you should take your car to a MASS and ask them to check it.

Hope this helps

Cheers,
gpa

Last edited by Technocrat : 20th July 2009 at 13:27. Reason: Only 2 smilies per post allowed.
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Old 20th July 2009, 13:28   #49
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I don't find the mileage extremely low. It depends a lot on one's driving style.

@Furious55: which gear do you mostly drive in? How much time are you in 5th & 4th gear?
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Old 20th July 2009, 13:38   #50
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From the figures, it is evident that the FE is dismal and not normal at all for the Alto! If you take a look at the LTO report of my Alto, you will see the difference in FE.
I know. I was expecting at least 18.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Did you change the engine oil at the 1'st free service?
Yes. Even checked the dipstick. The oil was clear. Looks like the did it.

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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Considering that the Alto doesn't have a tacho, do you strain your engine before shifting gears?
No. I shift quickly and don't rev the car too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Do you shift gears as per the recommended speeds in the fuel saving tips page given by MUL?
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Which petrol bunk do you normally fill up in?
Ashoka Petroleum, Arlem

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
You mentioned that you used the tank-full method, but have filled in only around 29, 25 and 23 litres each time. The Alto has a 35 litre tank and when the fuel guage needle is in the red zone it indicates roughly about 5 litres of fuel in the tank. Why don't you try running the car so that you fill about 32-33 litres of fuel and then see if there is a difference.
There was some fuel in the tank when I took delivery. Looks like it was 6 litres. The car was driven from the stock yard in Panjim to Margao for delivery. For full tank I look to see it's filled to the brim. Don't rely on the gauge.

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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Once you have looked at the above 4 areas, try driving the car without the a/c on a tank full of petrol to get an idea of what the FE is like without the a/c. With your driving (70% highway) and ~1,500 kms on the odo, you should be getting a FE of about 15-16 kmpl.
Don't intend driving without the AC.

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Also try tanking up at a different bunk as some of them have their meters and dispensers tampered with and if you fill 1 litre, what actually goes into your tank is 900 or 950 ml.
I'll try that the next time I fill up.

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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
If you still do not see a change in the overall FE, then you should take your car to a MASS and ask them to check it.
I'll take it there anyway since they claimed a milege of 20+. They didn't specify which pump to fill up or where to drive and how much traffic should be on the road or the road conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
I don't find the mileage extremely low. It depends a lot on one's driving style.

@Furious55: which gear do you mostly drive in? How much time are you in 5th & 4th gear?
You mean to say the milege is good? Our 100BHP Petra gives us that much. The Alto is supposed to give 18-20. Maybe Maruti should change their ad from "Petrol Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!" to "Petrol Par Karcha Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!".
Regarding gears, well 70% driving on the highway and 90% of the time on the highway is spent in 5th gear. Even when in the city 5th gear is used when traffic is less. Don't think anything is wrong with our driving style (mine & husbands) as we manage to extract 13 from the Petra. In fact the Alto is driven with a much lighter foot. Maybe we should try a heavy foot on the Alto and see if the milege improves. You never know.

Last edited by Furious55 : 20th July 2009 at 13:53.
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Old 20th July 2009, 13:51   #51
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I'll take it there anyway since they claimed a milege of 20+. They didn't specify which pump to fill up or where to drive and how much traffic should be on the road or the road conditions.
20+ is too far fetched a claim for the Alto. Again, as Technocrat rightly pointed out, the FE depends on your driving style and also the conditions you drive in. Drive in chock-a-block city traffic and your FE is bound to fall, go on to smooth highways and you will see a significant increase.

Last edited by gpa : 20th July 2009 at 13:56.
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Old 20th July 2009, 14:08   #52
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20+ is too far fetched a claim for the Alto. Again, as Technocrat rightly pointed out, the FE depends on your driving style and also the conditions you drive in. Drive in chock-a-block city traffic and your FE is bound to fall, go on to smooth highways and you will see a significant increase.
Yea, it's just a claim but then it can't be so way off. Even 16 would be acceptable (considering that's what my husband used to get on his Carb 999cc Uno). Alto being a lighter car should give more or at least the same. My old M800 used to give me 18 with AC. Driving style and traffic conditions are more or less the same as it's the same people driving in the same place. Goa traffic cannot be compared to Bangalore or Mumbai. Traffic is hardly anything compared to the cities. And then again 70% driving is on the highway. Anyway let me change the petrol pump (or bunk as it is known is some places) and see what happens.
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Old 20th July 2009, 14:19   #53
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My old M800 used to give me 18 with AC.
M800 is lighter than Alto & the AC is less powerfull than Alto i.e. in Alto the slightly more powerful engine has to carry more weight with more load from A/C.
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Old 20th July 2009, 14:33   #54
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M800 is lighter than Alto & the AC is less powerfull than Alto i.e. in Alto the slightly more powerful engine has to carry more weight with more load from A/C.
Going by that the Uno should have given even less milege. And the Alto is a more modern car with MPFI, sensors, ECU etc to make sure the right amount of fuel is delivered, improving FE as well as performance. Could it be some electronics malfunction?
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Old 20th July 2009, 15:16   #55
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Was the Uno a Diesel or Petrol? Besides I am speaking about M800 & Alto from my experience. I have no experience with Uno so cant comment.
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Old 20th July 2009, 21:11   #56
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I'll take it there anyway since they claimed a milege of 20+. They didn't specify which pump to fill up or where to drive and how much traffic should be on the road or the road conditions.

You mean to say the milege is good? Our 100BHP Petra gives us that much. The Alto is supposed to give 18-20. Maybe Maruti should change their ad from "Petrol Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!" to "Petrol Par Karcha Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!".
Furious55, it appears that your Alto has been giving all sorts of headaches, even before you sat in the vehicle. My earlier post made some mention of your woes and this FE issue is only adding to your nightmares

While I can't comment on your fuel economy (an average of 13kmpl) since you use the AC almost always and your driving conditions may be different, I can give you some fuel economy readings of my Alto. Let me first give you a brief on my style of driving:

1. I almost never use the AC. In fact, the AC is used only when it rains and on a summer afternoon. Somehow, I don't like driving with the AC on and I prefer the natural wind entering the cabin.
2. I drive all over Goa (though most of the trips are between Margao and Porvorim).
3. I fill fuel at various petrol pumps between Panjim and Margao, mostly those which have a credit card.
3. My maximum speed is 70 kmph.
4. I try to get on the 5th gear whenever possible (specially along some stretches in Verna and Bambolim)
5. Most of the times, my wife, our one-and-half year old daughter and I travel in the car. Dickey/hatch is always partially filled with baby's bag and some marketing bags. Occasionally, fourth person (mum-in-law) travels with us.
6. I use the original tyres supplied on the Alto and there have been absolutely no modifications on the car.


Now, I don't check separate fuel economy readings for city and highway driving, and whatever fuel economy I get is a result of both of them put together. The drive could range from the busy route in and around the 18th June road (mostly 2nd-3rd gear) in Panjim to the relative easy traffic on a Panjim-Margao road in the morning. The tank-to-tank readings are as follows:

1. 548.4 kms -- 28.28 ltrs -- 19.26 kmpl
2. 363.2 kms -- 18.14 ltrs -- 20.02 kmpl
3. 569.7 kms -- 26.41 ltrs -- 21.57 kmpl
4. 627.0 kms -- 29.76 ltrs -- 21.07 kmpl
5. 632.1 kms -- 28.78 ltrs -- 21.96 kmpl
6. 599.1 kms -- 29.38 ltrs -- 20.39 kmpl
7. 455.6 kms -- 22.44 ltrs -- 20.30 kmpl

These readings were done in random over a period of one year (after the first service). Suffice to say, I have been quite pleased with the fuel economy of my Alto.

Now, some on this forum have suggested that I should get about 2-3 kmpl less if I use the AC. I can't speak about these readings for certain as I have not checked the fuel economy with AC always on.

Regards.
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Old 20th July 2009, 23:11   #57
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I'll take it there anyway since they claimed a milege of 20+. They didn't specify which pump to fill up or where to drive and how much traffic should be on the road or the road conditions.

You mean to say the milege is good? Our 100BHP Petra gives us that much. The Alto is supposed to give 18-20. Maybe Maruti should change their ad from "Petrol Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!" to "Petrol Par Karcha Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!".
Furious55, sorry to add another post to your same comment. Are you sure that Maruti has claimed a mileage of 20+ with the AC on? Going by my Alto's FE (mentioned in the earlier post), their claims have been quite accurate.

Even in their advertisements, Maruti officially claims the Alto's general mileage as 18.1 kmpl (some ARAI reading), but does NOT state how mileage can be obtained.

Your claim that "the Alto is supposed to give 18-20" heavily depends on the actual driving conditions. I don't not think that an Alto -- or for that matter any other car -- is "supposed" to give any particular mileage and that too, between a narrow 3-point range. Going by other alto owners on this forum, an Alto's FE can range between 13 (or less) and 22 (or more).

Hence, while you may be justified in your grievances with other aspects of the Alto and its dealers in Margao, your "Petrol Par Karcha Khatam Hi Nahi Hota!" claim may be inaccurate.
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Old 21st July 2009, 13:13   #58
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Was the Uno a Diesel or Petrol?
I think it was a petrol 999cc Uno. The diesel Uno was far more popular, but a few also went for the carburetted Petrol version as well.
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Old 1st March 2010, 10:40   #59
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Was at the Maruti Service with my esteem [2000 model Mpfi vx, a project in progress] and bumped into Furious55, the car is still not fixed.Got and update and would like to post the story so far, I feel sorry for Furious55 after hearing the full story in front of the service engineers to which engineers had nothing to say.
Following the story in words of furious55 and the letter by the works manager.


Here's an update on the car. Even after the first service the milege is really low. Just checked and it was 13.03 Kmpl.
Date Litres ODO Dist Kmpl
27.06.09 34.20 46 46 ==
01.07.09 24.93 390 344 13.80
06.07.09 25.10 760 370 14.74
12.07.09 29.49 1172 412 13.97
20.07.09 23.87 1483 311 13.03
28.07.09 27.28 1877 394 14.44

Average 130.67 1877 1831 14.01

Full tank to full tank method used. 100% driving with AC. 70% Highway, 30%
City. First 3 readings before first service. Alto owners please
comment. How is this compared to your cars?
I feel it is too low.

I took the car to MASS and complained about the low milege. They started with the usual nonsense on how to check mileage. I stopped them and told them that I know exactly how to calculate. Then they started about driving which again I told them that I know. Then they asked at what speed I keep the AC blower? I was shocked. What difference does that make. He said that if the blower is kept high it will affect milege. I said OK I always keep it at 1 or 2. Now talk. Then the car was taken inside for checking. I went in too. They just cleaned the spark plugs and air filter, which were anyway absolutely clean. Just 1000KM after the service. They said nothing more can be done. They decided to do a milege test. They disconnected the fuel pump and connected a portable tank and pump. 1 litre petrol was put in. They used an old coolant bottle to measure. My wife went along with them. She insisted that the test be conducted with the AC on. Now we all know that this test is rigged. This portable pump is calibrated to supply less fuel. There is a power loss. However they goofed up somewhere. The car gave just 10Kmpl. Now these idiots say that there is always an error. 10Kmpl means that the car is actually giving 13Kmpl!!!!. I demanded to see the manager. He agreed to redo the test without the AC. Driving absolutely slow (40Kmph) on an empty road the car gave 18Kmpl. I said ok. Difference is 8 Km. How can your AC eat up so much. Something wrong. Now he says, that the engine is small and the load of the AC increases consumption significantly. I said the compressor size is decided based on the engine size and car size, so don't tell me this. After a lot of argument, they agreed to change the O2 sensor and check again.

Got the car back in the evening. They said the car is ok and as per their tests it gave 13 with AC and 18 without. I asked for it in writing and this is what I got.

Dear Sir,
This is in regards to your complain about your Alto car bearing reg no GA08E8862 saying that you get 13-14 kms per litre with A/C on and blower speed in second postion and 18KMPL without a/c, we would like to inform you that we have checked your vehicle and done a milege test on your vehicle .As per our test we got 13 kmpl with A/C and 18kmpl without A/C as per the road and traffic conditions at the time of testing,This figure cannot be said as standard milege of the vehicle since milege can vary according to many factors and driving habits and a/c usage.
Also we have checked the fuel system and found no leakages or loss of fuel .Also we tested other vehicles of same model and the milege given was within the same range but all vehicles were driven by same driver and in the same road, but traffic conditions may have varied.
Hence we can say that there is no problem with the vehicle and also we would like to educate you that fuel efficiency of any vehicle is never constant since it depends on the various factors and driving conditions which can vary and so as the milage according ly. Hence we cannot give a standard milage for any vehicle.
We would like to assure you that there is no manufacturing fault at present in your vehicle.
For any suggestions and clarification you can contact the undersigned during any workingday.
This letter is given as per your request.
Thanking You,
Yours Faithfully,
Vishal .Gundap
Works Manager
Chowgule Industries Pvt Ltd
Fatorda. Goa.


The above letter is reproduced exactly with all the spelling mistakes and other errors in punctuation as in the original letter. The works manager is aware of the intentions to posting this and has no objections to the same.

Some points to be noted.
-I never claimed 18Kmpl without AC. I have never used the car without AC. 18Kmpl was achieved during the mileage test conducted in my presence.
-No mention is made of the test with AC where the car returned 10Kmpl.
-No mention of my report of 9.56Kmpl after the O2 sensor change.
-The testing which returned 13 & 18Kmpl respectively was not done in my presence.

As soon as I received the letter I went to the sales section and asked what is the claimed mileage of the Alto. I was told 18Kmpl. There was a poster saying 18.1Kmpl under standard test conditions. The sales executive was also aware that there is an ARAI requirement to also post real world milege figures (without & without AC) in normal driving conditions. He admitted that they did not have it.

Both the works manager an the sales executive requested me to use the car for at least 5000Km and if the problem persists, they will look and replacing the AC or other faulty parts.

Ok here's the update on the mileage.
Just tanked on 10.02.10.
Last tankful on 30.01.10. ODO: 6783 and trip meter reset.
Today again filled up 21.67 litres. ODO: 7080
Total Kms: 297
Milege: 13.71 Kmpl.
The driving was 60% Highway and 40% City.
Very disappointed.

Last tankful on 10.02.10. ODO: 7080 and trip meter reset.
On 20.02.10 filled up 26.69 litres. ODO: 7459
Total Kms: 379
Milege: 14.20 Kmpl.
Gave the car back to the dealer. Now they are replacing the throttle body. Lets see what happens. The result was the same after the throttle body swap.

MASS guys are still insisting that the car is fine. I even complained to the Maruti Official in-charge of Goa and even he said the same thing. Finally after a lot of shouting and threatening he agreed to recheck the car. Next I went and caught the sales guys. I showed them the written statement of the mileage test and asked they why it did not tally with their claims. They agreed that the mileage was too low. So I asked them to co-ordinate with the service department and get my car fixed or take it back and return my money.
Now they are replacing the ECM which will take 1 week (excellent Maruti service, one week for a spare part). In the meantime they have given me an Alto LX. I have told them that I will see how much mileage I get on this car.


We in fact took my car [esteem with 55000KM on odo] out on the same route with AC and got a better mileage than the Alto, in city with AC we got 11.5KMPL and on Highway got 15 Kmpl with AC and wtihout AC we got 16.7KMPL with 3 people in the car at all time roughly 250-270kgs. did a run of around 80 kms, city speeds were low anf had to drive in 1-2 and 3 rd gear [Margao city] highway speeds were between 80-100KMPH mostly in 5th gear [since this was comparison test for mileage we had to drive like furious55 drives usually] and changing drivers to compensate for driving conditions and errors that Furious55 may be doing when we are not around.

Than there was silence in the car from the engineer.

Lets hope the car is fixed soon. And hope Maruti sticks by it claims on mileage figures.

Sorry for such a long post, but could not help writing this incident.

Last edited by dinar : 1st March 2010 at 10:44.
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Old 1st March 2010, 19:24   #60
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Hi dinar,

The FE of Furious55's Alto of 10kmpl (with AC on) is indeed pathetic. While I have always got a FE of over 18 kmpl on my Alto here in Goa, I must admit that I drive almost always with the AC off. I find it hard to believe that there is a 8 kmpl dip in the FE when the AC is turned on.

Given Furious55's experience with her Alto, I'd recommend that she should change her car as soon as possible. No point in having an Alto (small cabin, small engine, less power) when you have a poor FE. Most people buy the Alto (after compromising on the above features) either because of its affordable price or its FE. Now with other vehicles, even within the Maruti stable (such as the Eeco), becoming equally affordable, the only reason why any should consider an Alto is its FE. And a poor FE in the Alto defeats the purpose of having an Alto in the first place.

By the way, is furious55 back on the forum? I was sad that she and her husband had been banned for some time for unknown reasons. I had enjoyed reading their posts, especially since they are based here in Goa.

Melvyn

Last edited by misquitas : 1st March 2010 at 19:30.
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