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Old 28th July 2009, 03:31   #151
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agree! no need for a dedicated thread.
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Old 28th July 2009, 09:13   #152
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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
another thread to disgrace the i20 crdi
In the other thread, you were asking people who had test driven i20 Crdi to post up their opinion on handling. I do, and you don't like it?

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
so you mean to say its a catch that the i20 cant do slalom changes at speeds in excess of 80kmph!! mainly that, then the high price!( this is not at all true. the car do is that costly and yes hyundai has worked real good to demand that premium for the image and reliabilty the hyundai has! not like the punto where in the review thread the thread poster goes on to show the parts that FELL OFF! jesus! What is FIAT upto??)
For me it is. Please understand that everybody has their own distinct requirements. Crisp handling is one of mine.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
And Frankly your style of driving during the test drive is not something to be encouraged in any sense!!
I think its KNOWN AS RASH DRIVING!!. the other test drive thread mentions roads becoming Burnout Videogame so its better to have a punto then one can do slalom driving or ZIG ZAG??
I was thinking of buying the i20. Therefore, I wanted to explore. Please read my post again where I say that most people would not drive a car thus. If needed, I zig zag, but it does not mean I do it all day. Please watch the tone of your posts.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
why is it that i get the feeling Team-bhp is more or less having Boy racers or in in general guys who are more interested in high speed circus?? or is it only those who own Fiats??
You are welcome to your POV. By labeling me as a FIAT owner(all of 2 days, LOL), you have shown your true colors. You should have called me an ex-Swift D owner, that is the one I had for 1 year and close to 25k kms.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
this Forum is sending out the wrong picture Mods keep a check! and i think this thread doesnt hold much to say. better to close it than encouraging unwanted kind of driving.
Oh, please. Read my post again. I just wanted to give a heads up on the car behaviour during abrupt direction changes and asked people to upgrade rubber if they think necessary. How is it a wrong picture? Where do I encourage people to drive badly?

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
i am for one betting that most of the newbies around here or those guys who are buying the punto or going through the threads will be getting the picture that getting the punto is having a virtual licence to be more agressive in taking corners in the highways and do slaloms and all. Christ!! this is not what a forum should be spreading!
Keep your prejudice aside and do not read between lines.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
dude seriously. did it appear to you that you would have taken that slalom in the same way you did with swift or punto?? what i meant is turn the steering in the same way??
Read my disclaimer. Handling comparison was with Swift D. And yes, I know what the Swift can do, with good rubber.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
i am pretty sure one who drives a verna will be doing a lane change in accordance with the feel of the steering , same thing goes for Getz, then i20, for each and every car depending on the Steering the driving Character has to change or get adapted!!.
Now you speak sense.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
and dude in a level road the slalom, its acceptable though not needed.
But you were really lucky to have done it going up a flyover!! and dont you know that there will torque steer besides the torque rush which will really make controlling the vehicle dangerous!! not just to you but to others on the road?
Well, you can come to your own conclusions. First time, as I said, it was a surprise. Second time, I knew what I was doing and was prepared for the car losing it. If you know of any dealers providing test drives on test tracks, please let me know.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
The magazine guyys do it because its their business to do it and get better ratings for their mags!! you on the other hand is deliberately doing it taking unwanted risk and then using that to the extent of degrading the vehicle too. Great Effort keep it up.
Degarding the vehicle? Where? And I certainly do not understand why you are irked so much about me pointing out a handling deficiency of the i20? Did you design the car(or its parts), by any chance?

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
i feel that most of the Fiat threads or punto encouraging or hyundai bashing threads make a huge cry of the verna, getz, i20 all crdi cars with engines thats ages ahead in performance, being real bad at handling while all the ownership threads for both verna and getz and i20( very few though ) are saying that they are happy with it. ( i guess the simple explanation is that these are common guys or guys who are not boy racers?? )

Is all Fiat owners boy racers???i saw a post claiming that the S10 can cruise all day at 190kmph!! in the other test drive thread!! ( frankly whats these posts intended to spread? ) in which dream is all this possible??
See, I honestly mentioned that I now have a Punto - else you wouldn't be able to make these accusations, would you? Punto/FIAT ownership has nothing to do with driving fast. Go through other ownership/review threads, if you will (How about a few pete'd elantra threads?)

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
Doesnt Team-Bhp encourage safe driving?? or its ok with Fiat drivers to post all about their high speed circus over here??
If all Team-Bhp had was a thread about the art of safe driving, how many of us would be here? You have misconstrued my post as advocating rash driving(to use your own words) and then blame it on Fiat drivers. Please tell me, how many days/kms of driving does it take for one to be a FIAT driver, in your book?


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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
and Lastly the waiting period. you say that 6 weeks waiting period is a catch while people had to wait for 3months for the Swift DDiS ?? thats 12 weeks double the time period! so is the waiting period for the swift diesel also a catch??!
Probably it is, for people who want a car immediately. I see you got your blood boiling after reading my post and did not comprehend it completely. The catches, for me, were it's handling at the limit and the sticker price for ASTA(O). Waiting period was - guess what? "Final nail on the coffin".


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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
this thread is just going to become another thread like the many other threads to give a boost to punto . hehe.
Leave the Punto out of this, please. I could just easily have not mentioned the Punto. Honesty doesn't pay nowadays, I guess.

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
agree! no need for a dedicated thread.
Ah, a self appointed mod. Well, to the mods - I posted it as a separate thread as I intended it as a warning and it would have got lost in the middle of the i20 TD thread, and hence posted a new thread for more visibility. If you guys think I did it for deliberate bashing, please do as necessary.

Last edited by kuttapan : 28th July 2009 at 09:18.
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:01   #153
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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
I did two test drives, one in Bangalore and one in Pune. The first one was a scary experience. I did the test drive on the inner ring road, and in mildly damp conditions, the car squirmed and went almost out of control when doing a sudden lane change during turning. While I admit most people would not drive a car thus, this is something my Swift would have done with aplomb. Let truth be told, my Swift rode on Michelins and the test drive i20 on Apollo Acceleres and I believe there is no comparison.
With all due respect to the author, I think this way of reviewing a car is crazy. I can tell you from my experience that only cars with traction control can with stand such scrutiny in damp conditions. i20 does not have traction control. Traction control is built for this exact problem.

I would also strongly suggest any readers of this thread to never do such a test drive as it can be really dangerous to you, your passengers and others on the road. Let the pros do it in their internal test circuits.

From my limited test drive, I can tell you that the i20 I drove was well planted on the road during all the turns. There are plenty of highway driving reports of the i20 from owners and nobody has raised this issue.
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:24   #154
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Thomas, buddy, lighten up, awright? The man is talking about the i20, and his impressions of its handling. Why turn it into a Punto v i20 thread? It is his opinion, and you can disagree. As far as the forum goes, I think the rules are unambiguous- dangerous driving is not encouraged, period. Do remember though that this is a forum of enthusiasts, and we froth at sights and sounds of a high revving mill any time of the day/ night. So, powerful, well-mannered cars which keep their composure at highway speeds are favorites here. Fiat makes good cars and we like what is good about them. Same goes for hyundai, or maruti or any other car. The purpose is that members can learn both the good and the bad about a car from others' opinions. That does not stop anybody from forming their own of course.

Quote:
you say that 6 weeks waiting period is a catch while people had to wait for 3months for the Swift DDiS ?? thats 12 weeks double the time period! so is the waiting period for the swift diesel also a catch??!
That is like saying 2 negatives make a positive. Are you saying that a long waiting period for the Swift justifies one for the i20?

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why is it that i get the feeling Team-bhp is more or less having Boy racers or in in general guys who are more interested in high speed circus?? or is it only those who own Fiats??
Please watch your tone. These kind of remarks add nothing to the discussion.


@kuttapan, was the suspension behave the same at both low and high speeds? Was the second TD also in damp conditions, or dry?

Last edited by anurag_p80 : 28th July 2009 at 10:26.
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:26   #155
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Its quite interesting.

I do exactly the kinda slalom turns you say, faster than you say, and on a Swift shod with JKtyre Tornados - DAILY!

Is the i20's handling REALLY that bad? I guess I'd need a TD!

PS: But yes, in all these months, never seen it being driven as rashly as the majority of swifts are driven

@Thomas/Fulcrum: Thanks for your kind words, but no thanks. Someone wants to test an i20's capabilities at 80 and he's being rained down upon. I do it at 100-120 in my stock Swift daily - that's my reality. To me his post is quite useful. Thomas, Can we go easy with the labels please?
This is the same forum where guys talk of W rated tyres on Elantra and pushing it to 190 kph as well - there's space for everyone.

Last edited by phamilyman : 28th July 2009 at 10:29.
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:48   #156
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Changing lanes at 80 kmph is not actually rash driving , It is a reality of Indian highways particularly to avoid a parked lorry in the middle of road with tree twigs and couple of stones as marker in the night.

Handling Capability is necessary so one should look for this in test drive even if not a street racer but utilization of capability deliberately on streets can be dangerous and must be avoided.

Now I have nothing to add specifically on Punto , I20 or Swift as I do not own these cars.

Last edited by amitk26 : 28th July 2009 at 10:53.
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Old 28th July 2009, 11:27   #157
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i have no issues with anyone. but facts are facts. ths type of TD is dangerous!! period.

@kuttapan.

i meant Driving characteristics in normal driving!
now dont tell me what you did during test drive is normal driving.!!

i didnt try to label you as s Fiat owner( you just became one.) even for a swift owner Dont you think theres more than Crisp handling to car??. and yes if you go through different threads where there s a comparison, Punto is made out to be just the right thing for sudden lane changes, slalolms taking corners are greater speeds?

let me rephrase my Q. why is it i get the feeling most of the Team-Bhp Fiat owners read Palio GTX, S10, Punto all saying in the same tome about the greatness of their car at great speeds. ( 190kmph!! for an S10 is insane).??

Sorry for reading between the lines, but for a newbie to driving these kinds of posts will only send the picture which i mentioned.

and frankly why do you call it a handling defeciency?? wont better rubber help.?

your point is you give more weightage to CRISP HANDLING so you call it a handling defeciency in i20 . so be it. you are welcome to express it. and yes GROUND REALITY is above mentioned factor is only a part of the vehicle! It need not be the same for all guys.

I Sincerely feel that this thread is going to emulate the thread which was titled. the SAD True STory of Punto.!! why start such threads with intimidating title to disgrace a Car??

on the waiting peroid i can agree with you . yes you were in need of a car fast and since the i20 didnt handle well and at 7.3lakhs ex showroom price it was a bit heavy on pocket and you had to wait for 6 weeks too! so you diidnt feel it was worth it and you took a Punto. for the given situation what you did is right.

You didnt encourage unwanted driving at all. i meant the FORUM as a whole where Fiat Threads are there read Palio GTX, S10, Punto, Paints a picture that more or less encourages not normal driving!! ( this is the least i can tone down my posts..lolz)

about the peted elantra threads! the elantra has ABS and TCS. its from a diferent segment and also has longer wheelbase with a wider front and rear tacks i wont be suprised if these cars can take corners in excess of 160kmph! 190kmph in a straight line is nothing. it can easily hit a true Vbox reading of 200+ kmph with a tuning box / rail pressure mod chip!

@ phamilyman/anurag dude you drive fast and you admit it no problems. many enthusists do but dude doing slalom at 80/100/120 is not everything of the cars capability is it?

once the driver is well acquinted with the feel of the steering, he will be able to do much better and yes better rubber will do wonders!.

by waiting period i meant the Production Vs Demand or( supply vs Demand ) for the i20. hyundai guys have to export these cars also. and yes i really think its a good thing they are giving us the same car instead of a second grade thing as other manufacturers do?

i20 more or less will have a waiting period. the car supply has to meet demand of two markets domestic and international.

in the same way swift had a lot of demand but less supply. this is in no way a CATCH for the vehicle. for guys like Kutapan who needed a car fast, it was a catch. i agree with him. but should it be for everyone??
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Old 28th July 2009, 11:38   #158
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Changing lanes at 80 kmph is not actually rash driving , It is a reality of Indian highways particularly to avoid a parked lorry in the middle of road with tree twigs and couple of stones as marker in the night.
That is very true. That is also the reason not to drive too fast on our highways especially in poor visibility. Since i20 is built for european markets, I would assume that it has good stability. It has a wide wheel base which should also help. But in wet conditions, only traction control will help and i20 doesn't have it.
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Old 28th July 2009, 11:40   #159
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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
Let the brickbats flow.
Only good info I got from this thread is about Apollo Acelere. These tyres seem to be bad on wet roads?

Your seat of the pants reading was a smart move. No one could find out the speed you were doing anyway. You should have known that a better car than the one you own can mislead your seat-of-pants senses.

Bottomline is you manage to convince yourself and your wife to buy a car you liked from the beginning.

But why tell us this way? Please contribute to the Punto ownership thread
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Old 28th July 2009, 11:42   #160
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Originally Posted by fulcrum_77 View Post
With all due respect to the author, I think this way of reviewing a car is crazy. I can tell you from my experience that only cars with traction control can with stand such scrutiny in damp conditions. i20 does not have traction control. Traction control is built for this exact problem.
Crazy? Ahem, well each to his own. I am very demanding of my cars, at least in handling department, hence the test and posting the observations here. As I said, I have done such maneuvers on Swift before and it never missed a beat. As you know, Swift does not come with TC. As I said, it is probably the tyres and Michelin and Apollo are like chalk and cheese.

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I would also strongly suggest any readers of this thread to never do such a test drive as it can be really dangerous to you, your passengers and others on the road. Let the pros do it in their internal test circuits.
Well, if one does not know what one is doing, yes it can be. The intent of my original post was never to enthuse people to emulate me, I don't know why it is interpreted as such.

Ok, to make it clear then - PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. I had my own reasons for doing this test - Since it caused a scary moment in my first TD, I wanted to see if this behavior was inherent to the car or if it was a one-off moment. This was essential if I had to take a buying decision.

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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Your seat of the pants reading was a smart move. No one could find out the speed you were doing anyway. You should have known that a better car than the one you own can mislead your seat-of-pants senses.

Bottomline is you manage to convince yourself and your wife to buy a car you liked from the beginning.

But why tell us this way? Please contribute to the Punto ownership thread
Sir, why would I like to mislead people by quoting an unrealistic speed? I was in third gear and accelerating, that, after redlining 2nd. So I estimated to be around 80(maybe more). Give or take 10 kph.

This thread is not about the Punto. Ownership thread will come in due time. Currently I have nothing to say other than what is being discussed in the Punto Ownership threads. Now I feel I should not have put the disclaimer at all.


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Originally Posted by fulcrum_77 View Post
From my limited test drive, I can tell you that the i20 I drove was well planted on the road during all the turns. There are plenty of highway driving reports of the i20 from owners and nobody has raised this issue.
Perhaps I asked too much of the car. i20 dynamics would suit most people out there, but not for me.

For me, the best diesel hatch would be the i20 engine in the Punto, with those magnificient disk brakes as well from the i20.

Last edited by kuttapan : 28th July 2009 at 11:47.
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Old 28th July 2009, 11:58   #161
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Very good points Kuttapan, so its not a great handler & finally the bad ride quality does it for me, spending lakhs & bouncing all the way to hell!
Also, the waiting period game is so stale & boring, who's got the time these days!
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Old 28th July 2009, 12:05   #162
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Sir, why would I like to mislead people by quoting an unrealistic speed?
No offence mate. When you advocate something to the masses, it is infinitely better to base that on facts and numbers. Lends you more credibility.

Your contribution would have been appreciated more if you had put your testdrive report on an existing comparo (Don't we have many?). It would make sense if you had put slalom and wet handling test you did on Punto too (Didn't you do it?)

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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
For me, the best diesel hatch would be the i20 engine in the Punto, with those magnificient disk brakes as well from the i20.
Can't have everything in life. Make the best out of whatever you have. Else you would end up being a non-stop critic of all other cars in the world

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Old 28th July 2009, 12:16   #163
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I feel terming this review as simply i20 basher will be an entirely wrong idea. Nowhere in his post the author has commented on pros and cons of i20 other than the aspect of handling, which he wanted to re-check because of discomfort he felt in one TD. If someone does not agree with a POV, it must be said plainly and not label the POV as something which it is not.

Since I have not done a TD of i20, I am in no position to agree or disagree with the review. One thing that is becoming concrete after reading many reviews and ownership experiences on TBHP is that i20 is a poor handler when compared to contemporary hatchbacks.

Author of this thread has clearly mentioned how i20 was a priority car for him before he did the TD. As far as I am concerned, it is an unbiased review that the author has written based upon his requirements.
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Old 28th July 2009, 12:36   #164
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No offence mate. When you advocate something to the masses, it is infinitely better to base that on facts and numbers. Lends you more credibility.
The speedo didn't work. Period.

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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Your contribution would have been appreciated more if you had put your testdrive report on an existing comparo (Don't we have many?). It would make sense if you had put slalom and wet handling test you did on Punto too (Didn't you do it?)
Can't have everything in life. Make the best out of whatever you have. Else you would end up being a non-stop critic of all other cars in the world
I felt this to be a serious enough deficiency to warrant a new thread. Let us see what the mods think.

Regarding Punto, I did not have the same conditions(or same road) when I test drove, but so far I have not been able to find any deficiency in handling. Now that I have one on my own, surely I will mention all the negatives/positives in my ownership thread(And then, I will get bashed by Fiat fans as well). I am very critical of my cars, please read my Swift DDiS ownership thread. And no, I am not a non-stop critic, I do appreciate nice things in a car. For instance, the safety features, the superb disk brakes and sunroof in ASTA(O) version of i20. These were a major draw for me, but had to pull out because of reasons mentioned in the original post.

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Originally Posted by NutsNBolts View Post
Author of this thread has clearly mentioned how i20 was a priority car for him before he did the TD. As far as I am concerned, it is an unbiased review that the author has written based upon his requirements.
Thanks mate. Appreciate that there are people who understand. In fact, I thought ten times before putting up this thread, as I knew it would be construed as deliberate maligning of i20, which I didn't want it to be. My post was more aimed at people who would buy this car for it's stonker of an engine and then put it through its paces. Not for the average Joe who drives to work and back.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 13th December 2010 at 10:21. Reason: Please use the EDIT function instead of posting back-to-back posts within 20 minutes. Thanks.
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Old 28th July 2009, 12:45   #165
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You are welcome kuttappan. There is not point in getting emotionally carried away and see things through "my very own" prism. Objectivity is the mainstay in TBHP and that is how it should be.
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