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Old 17th August 2009, 00:03   #31
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
One really does not need a detailed manual on how to drive an AT car. 2-3 kms or 5 mins is what is needed to get what is needed.
thanks vasudeva.

I would value all the help and inputs i get on the AT. My initial impression on the AT was that there was a sense of loss of control on the car as compared to MT.

Over several weeks i realise that AT is the way to go but requires a change in driving style.

The turbo lag in diesel AT at low speed followed by marked acceleration in the torque band is somewhat different from the petrol AT.
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Old 17th August 2009, 00:13   #32
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Axe77, sajands, rageshgr, abhij, 4x4addict.

Thanks all for useful inputs and nice to be able to add to the verna club.

I used the L and 2 modes at nandi hill for better car control in steep climbs. Did not want the autobox shifting to a higher gear at an ackward moment.

Will try the other option next time around.

As suggested i did use the L and 2 modes on the downhill drive for engine braking.

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nice review and good looking car. how is the car under breaking??? you did mention that you touched 100 on the way back from mysore, just wanted to to know the feel of the breaks.

Have you upgraded the headlights or still running on stock bulbs.
thanks sajands.

Brakes feel was good and did not encounter any problems at speeds of 100kmph.

Was careful to modulate the brake action by gradual pressure though.

Headlamps are weak inspite of the added foglamps.

Spoke to hyundai A.S.S. about upgrade. They mentioned that it would void the warranty and spoil the reflectors.

Have kept the idea on hold for the present.

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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
C
I'm not an electronics expert, but a lot of R&D has led me to believe that there are 2 replacement options. The cheaper option is to go for replacement 100/90 bulbs which are much stronger than the stock bulbs. Wont affect your warranty too.

The other (more exotic) option is to go for Xenon lamps with a projector beam setup. This one seems to be much more expensive. I'm currently looking for this option.
Thanks predatorwheelz. Will check out the options.

Need to look at a modded car with the above options to get a feel of them. Next time i visit the A.S.S. will try to find a modded verna for a closer look.

Thanks again.
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Old 17th August 2009, 00:39   #33
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
rageshgr:

You don't need to shift gears in an automatic if you need a power surge to overtake. The automatics have what is called a kick down feature. You only need to floor the pedal and the gearbox will down shift to a lower gear. The standard Automatics like Hyundai's are not meant to be shifted on the move. You need something like with a tipronic or paddle shift mechanism for automatics with manual modes. I suggest you refrain from shifting to L or 2 to over take as this will damage your transmission.


KeepItSimple:

Regarding your Nandhi hill climb. There is no need to put it in L gear or 2. The ECU will pick the right gear. You can turn off the overdrive to reduce the heat generated by the transmission by shifting frequently in and out of overdrive.

For day to day driving there is no reason to use L or 2. You can use these gears while coming down steep slopes to enable engine braking similar to how you would come down a steep slope in low gear in a manual transmission.
I use the kickdown most of the times, but kick downs are not enough sometimes. As in, the kickdowns are not aggressive enough. Even on a kickdown, the car will still upshift at a lower rev than while using "L" or "2" mode. They wont redline also. Well "L" or "2" modes are designed for hill climbing. So I don't see why they would damage my transmission. Anyways I use these modes only as a last resort , as I dont want to spoil the already low FE that I get.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:19   #34
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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Even on a kickdown, the car will still upshift at a lower rev than while using "L" or "2" mode. They wont redline also. Well "L" or "2" modes are designed for hill climbing. So I don't see why they would damage my transmission. Anyways I use these modes only as a last resort , as I dont want to spoil the already low FE that I get.
If you have it in L, the gear box will not shift beyond first gear, in 2, the gearbox won't shift beyond 2nd gear, and in D with the OD off, the gearbox won't shift beyond third gear. These shift points are not necessarily to select the gear you want to be in but the max gears you want the automatic to shift.

You will damage the transmission only if you shift outside of the normal driving parameters/rpm range of each gear. For example if you are driving at 120 and you shift to 2 to get more power to overtake, this will damage your transmission. Within the city it may not matter so much. The point I was making is that for the old school auto transmission like the 4 Speed auto from Hyundai, it is not meant to be shifted in manual mode. The gear selectors are purely to select the max gearing you want for hill climbs/decents, etc. They are never meant to be used to change gears while overtaking etc. The honda civics automatic with the paddle shifters are an example of an automatic that can be driving in manual mode.

That being said, it is time Hyundai offered a 5-Speed auto with manual over-ride similar to the Honda Civic, City. 5-Speeds have become the minimum in most parts of the world. It is mostly Toyota and Hyundai that still offer 4-Speeds in their lower end cars including Toyota.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:41   #35
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
If you have it in L, the gear box will not shift beyond first gear, in 2, the gearbox won't shift beyond 2nd gear, and in D with the OD off, the gearbox won't shift beyond third gear. These shift points are not necessarily to select the gear you want to be in but the max gears you want the automatic to shift.

You will damage the transmission only if you shift outside of the normal driving parameters/rpm range of each gear. For example if you are driving at 120 and you shift to 2 to get more power to overtake, this will damage your transmission. Within the city it may not matter so much. The point I was making is that for the old school auto transmission like the 4 Speed auto from Hyundai, it is not meant to be shifted in manual mode. The gear selectors are purely to select the max gearing you want for hill climbs/decents, etc. They are never meant to be used to change gears while overtaking etc. The honda civics automatic with the paddle shifters are an example of an automatic that can be driving in manual mode.

That being said, it is time Hyundai offered a 5-Speed auto with manual over-ride similar to the Honda Civic, City. 5-Speeds have become the minimum in most parts of the world. It is mostly Toyota and Hyundai that still offer 4-Speeds in their lower end cars including Toyota.
The Hyundai auto transmission is not as old school as you think. Even if I out the car in "L" , it will shift to 2 after 50 kph. And even if I put the car in "L" while driving at 120 kph. It wont shift to 1st gear. The ECU does all this. The ECU takes care of not using the gear outside its range and even though "L" and "2" are supposed to be max. The car manual says this and I have tried it out as well. And I meant using "2" only for speeds below 80 kph because it wont shift to second gear at higher speeds anyway.
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Old 17th August 2009, 16:48   #36
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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
The Hyundai auto transmission is not as old school as you think. Even if I out the car in "L" , it will shift to 2 after 50 kph. And even if I put the car in "L" while driving at 120 kph.
This is because of the safety feature build into the ECU to prevent damage to the transmission. Even in the so called Manumatics(manual automatics) like in Honda City/Civic the ECU will override the manual selection if you the gear you are selecting will damage the transmission based on the speed/rpm that you are in.

The point I am making is that traditional automatics are not meant to be used like how you are recommending. L & 2 are not meant for overtaking maneuvers. If you are doing it, to your car it is fine. I wouldn't recommend it to new AT users who have just bought automatics.
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Old 17th August 2009, 19:17   #37
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Ya the same safety feature built into the ECU is what I too was talking about. And I guess most modern automatics have that feature. Atleast "Keepitsimple" who has a Verna AT has the same transmission as in mine, and its ECU must have the same safety feature as well. L and 2 are not "meant" for overtaking but I suggested it as a last resoirt, since he felt his car upshifted too quickly, although it is not good to hold revs too long on any car.
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Old 17th August 2009, 21:04   #38
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Default Hyundai autobox

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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Ya the same safety feature built into the ECU is what I too was talking about. And I guess most modern automatics have that feature. Atleast "Keepitsimple" who has a Verna AT has the same transmission as in mine, and its ECU must have the same safety feature as well. L and 2 are not "meant" for overtaking but I suggested it as a last resoirt, since he felt his car upshifted too quickly, although it is not good to hold revs too long on any car.
Thanks rageshgr for some very useful information.

Hyundai has the same 4speed AT on most of their cars including on the i30 diesel, yet to be released in india.

My guess is the 4speed or 5speed may not be a good criterion on whether the auto box is old school or not.

The refinements may be in the ECU control and safety features which may be frequently upgraded as per current norms. This may be common to toyota and hyundai.

On a parallel note, I had written to hyundai asking whether the advertised feature HiVec - Hyundai Intelligent Vehicle Control featues was in included in the indan spec verna. I received no response however.

The HiVec feature along with torque overdrive converter is advertised in the verna nee accent sold in australia since the 2007 model.

My brother, in new york, usa, drives a 10year old camry automatic with a similar 4 speed autobox. He had come down to india and briefly drove the verna AT. He said that box was similar but he did not have an overdrive feature.

He had on occasion used to change the drive modes 'D' to '2', 'L' while driving and said no trouble would occur with the AT.

This seems to me similar to the experience of 'rageshgr'.

I guess the ECU control of the autobox is the critical improvement in the modern school AT and 4speed or 5speed should be less of a concern.

I request more hyundai autobox users to share their experiance and shed more light on this situation.
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Old 17th August 2009, 21:52   #39
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Yes "Keepitsimple", 4 speed or 5 speed is not a criterion for modernity, but most modern 'boxes have 5, 6 ( even the Scorpio AT ! ) or even 7 speed.

But a 5 speed 'box would be better than a 4 speed one in improving both the performance and the fuel efficiency, because you can be in the right "band" at ther right time more easily and make better use of the engines power band. Thats why large trucks have as many as 18 gear combinations, so that they can always stay in the most fuel efficient RPM of say 1000 RPM ( this is manual, but just citing). You will have more choice of gears for any given RPM. if you have very less no of gears, your car has to find a compromise between performance and economy.

And yes, your brother using 2 and L while driving is the same situation I am describing, and since our ECUs take care of the safety factor, we are safe luckily
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Old 18th August 2009, 00:13   #40
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A nice review.

Congrats for having proably the most pratical auto car in India.
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Old 18th August 2009, 07:49   #41
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Congrats for having proably the most pratical auto car in India.
Thanks loving_alaap.

Will update as more kilometres are clocked on the car.
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Old 18th August 2009, 08:57   #42
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Originally Posted by KeepItSimple View Post

thanks sajands.

Brakes feel was good and did not encounter any problems at speeds of 100kmph.

Was careful to modulate the brake action by gradual pressure though.

Headlamps are weak inspite of the added foglamps.

Spoke to hyundai A.S.S. about upgrade. They mentioned that it would void the warranty and spoil the reflectors.

Have kept the idea on hold for the present.

Thanks again.
That's what they always say. I have 90/100 philips with ceramic holders and very happy with it since last 1 year. yes, very disappointed with the fog lamps as they dont serve any purpose apart from being a show peice. miss the santro fog lights.

I suggest get in touch with a good auto accessories shop and get a good pair of headlights

check with bluerave, satya who own EVO auto accessories in cambridge layout. He can help you out.

Last edited by sajands : 18th August 2009 at 08:59.
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Old 10th September 2009, 00:09   #43
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Default 3000 kms FE update

Folks, crossed the 3000kms - 85% city bumper to bumper traffic, 15% outstation trips. 100% AC.

Diesel filled Rs 9410/-, @ 37.01/litre, 254.26 litres.

Kms at last fill 2990. FE = 2990/254.26 = 11.76 kms/litre.

Includes careful initial run period till 1500 km.

Expecting FE to improve in future.
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Old 10th September 2009, 11:43   #44
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Kms at last fill 2990. FE = 2990/254.26 = 11.76 kms/litre.
Ah, the beauty of a diesel automatic. No FE worries. 11.76 kpl is fantastic for a driving route of which 85% is within the city.

Congrats on the car.
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Old 10th September 2009, 12:19   #45
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11.76 kms/litre.
Excellent figures you got there. And as GTO rightly pointed out from a diesel automatic. I have been following your thread and have been tempted to get the Verna Automatic ever since. I am not too bothered about my friends saying its just a 4 speed AT and all, tell me which is the next automatic in diesel available? The 'Schkoda' Laura? at 16L maybe? Weren't the the earlier automatics like Honda's 4 speed too? And the current Altis is a 4 speed AT too.

In today's stressful environment, automatic's are a boon with traffic horrifying getting worse by the day. Already takes me 1.5 hrs to drive back from Andheri East to Bandra West. I get a knee and ankle pain in my left leg, especially with the Logan's hard clutch.

My thinking is this:
1. Get a Verna AT.
2. Change the tyres ASAP.
3. Get Pete's / Bilsteins if you do high speed driving.

As i keep my cars max for 4-5 years, i dont think i'll be doing more than 80k kms, so i think its an excellent proposition at 9.75L.
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