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Old 27th October 2009, 16:52   #166
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Hi Viswesh,

Nice post. However, there are some factual errors / ommissions in your post.

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Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
I can tell you with utmost confidence that the VST Motors in Chennai has never let me down when it comes to ***.
I'm happy to hear that you have received satisfactory after-sales. However, one persons experience doesn't make a brand. We are discussing after-sales at the national level.

And more people have a better chance of superior after-sales at a Hyundai workshop than at a Tata-Fiat one.

Quote:
Another important factor could be cost of ownership, when it comes to the Punto and i20.
The i20 has way superior overall quality + Hyundai's typically stay niggle-free (unlike Tatas & Fiats). You get what you pay for. Thats not to say that the GP is badly priced, quite the contrary actually. It is fantastically priced.

Quote:
In this case, what would be an important consideration is the driving dynamics of the car.
A majority of the target market could care two hoots about the driving dynamics. They are going to spend 80 - 90% of their time in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
P.s. It would be interesting to see a Peted Punto vs a stock i20!!
Why Pete only one car? If we have to bring modifications into the picture, pete both and then talk performance.


Quote:
I am talking about speeds of 100kmph, I guess it is the weight of the car (Punto) that gives it more grip.
The GP has excellent high speed manners. But that does not necessarily make others bad. The i20 is also very driveable at high speed.
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Old 28th October 2009, 15:18   #167
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Thanks GTO. For some one entering only double digits in terms of writing posts this is great encouragement.

My replies to your post below

1. A** - I only said it is commendable where FIAT is currently in and how they have pulled up their socks in 2 years time and never said they are the best. I also wanted to mention that we do face problems even with established players like Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai. They are not hassle free.

2. Overall Quality - While i accept the interior fit and finish is superb in i20, it is prone to rattling over time, though not as worse as a Maruti. Let us not try include TATA and FIAT in the same league. There is a huge difference between them. One immediate pointer is the steel gauge that is used.

With a FIAT, sometimes, you get more than what you pay for. Linea and Punto fiat has redefined what a customer can get in terms of features in the particular segment for the money they pay.


3. We are talking about premium hatch here and i did put the target audience very clearly and the driving style with a range. Never said it would only be Highway driving. Let us also not forget that majority of the Indian roads (city roads) are with potholes and we have discussed that FIAT's gobble them pretty well. When i say this it does not mean the i20 is bad, just that Punto is better.


4. Pete - Pete only one car because it still fits into the price bucket of paying Rs.8000 more for an i20. I mentioned that, instead of spending Rs.80,000 extra, we can spend Rs.30,000 to pete a Punto and save Rs.50,000. No other reason to pete only one car.

5. I did not say i20 has bad drivability in high speeds, I would not want to say i20 is bad, I was just trying to highlight that Punto is better and in few aspects way better when it comes to high speed handling.

When I wrote the post, i never did want to say i20 is bad (I do not think i have done that in the post either).I was trying to highlight where Punto, in my opinion is better. This does not mean i20 is crap. It has a lot of merits with it too.

I had mentioned in another post to give credit where it is due, I will definitely follow that too.

Factual errors and Omissions?
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Old 29th October 2009, 14:39   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
I also wanted to mention that we do face problems even with established players like Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai. They are not hassle free.
No manufacturer can really offer a 100% satisfactory experience to 100% of its customer base. Maruti and Hyundai top the charts with probably 75 - 80% of their owners satisfied with service. The numbers for Tata - Fiat are way lower. Yes, you can get bad service at a Hyundai too, but the probability is far less.

Quote:
While i accept the interior fit and finish is superb in i20, it is prone to rattling over time, though not as worse as a Maruti.
i20 rattling? Where? I don't see more than a minute percentage of ownership reports complaining about this. And Hyundai's are actually known to be rattle free.

Quote:
Let us not try include TATA and FIAT in the same league. There is a huge difference between them.
We must give credit where its due. Take a spin in the new Manza.

Quote:
With a FIAT, sometimes, you get more than what you pay for.
Absolutely! The build quality (solid feeling), ride and handling are equivalent to segments above.

Quote:
3. We are talking about premium hatch here and i did put the target audience very clearly and the driving style with a range.
Whichever the hatch, an overwhelming majority of them are driven more in the city / at low speeds than over 100 kph on the highway. And the Indian masses really don't stress too much on high speed dynamics. It's us enthusiasts who do.

Quote:
Let us also not forget that majority of the Indian roads (city roads) are with potholes and we have discussed that FIAT's gobble them pretty well. When i say this it does not mean the i20 is bad, just that Punto is better.
True.
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Old 29th October 2009, 17:29   #169
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I thought "Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports First hand enthusiast reviews of test-driving and owning (initial stages) an Indian car" meant what it said particularly the part about the 'enthusiast reviews'. I think the trade papers are adequate to figure out what the majority buys. Fora like TBHP are for the enthusiasts to discuss and discover which is the better car for them. I would leave it to the planning commission and other such luminaries to figure out what is best for the Indian public as a whole.

Cheers,
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Old 29th October 2009, 17:39   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post

2. Overall Quality - While i accept the interior fit and finish is superb in i20, it is prone to rattling over time, though not as worse as a Maruti.
I am sure that you have not driven even a Santro, forget I20. drive a Santro that has crossed 20K on odo. You will learn tons about the fine build quality of Hyundai cars.
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Old 29th October 2009, 17:52   #171
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GTO - My point was over long term ownership Hyundai builds rattles and not a car launched this year. Have to wait and watch before we can take this topic any further on how well it ages.

Ajay - I have driven a Santro that you are referring to on a 700 km drive apart from city driving . My point here is to say, Hyundai cars tends to rattle and suffer wear and tear over years of ownership say 3 or 3+ years. This is true with most cars. There are few exceptions to this where the rattling is very less, one of them being FIAT cars.

This does not mean that I want to take away the merits of Hyundai's build totally. Infact, I can say Hyundai is one company which has improved miles in terms of build quality over the recent years.

The rattling can also be blamed on our road quality.
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Old 29th October 2009, 18:01   #172
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Hey Viswesh, I drive a 2005 Santro, done about 53k so far. Find me a rattle in the car, please!!!

Word of advise, dont generalize. I agree with you that Fiat cars are good, but please don't say Hyundai cars rattle cos they dont. Atleast not mine.

Yes, Santro has a terrible ride at the rear, and some say it looks ugly, but no rattles yet.
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Old 29th October 2009, 18:06   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
My point here is to say, Hyundai cars tends to rattle and suffer wear and tear over years of ownership say 3 or 3+ years.
===============
The rattling can also be blamed on our road quality.
Yup am the king of rattles, apart from the iKON (very minimal plastics it has) none of the other cars i have owned or driven extensively has stayed rattle free, atleast not for more than few 1000 kms

Right now i have a very sparingly used accent (17k kms in 5 years) and not even ventured on highway car but it still has minor rattles. Mind you this car has simple plastics compared to new cars, still.

I would rather worry about the overall aging of the car, in which i have to give Fiat a, for its tank like build. Dont look at plastics (esp looks), but the car just stays almost indistructable compared to Japs and Koreans which shows the age pretty easily.

In short rattles are not at all a bench mark, for reliability or for build!
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Old 29th October 2009, 18:08   #174
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Lalvaz, I am glad your car does not rattle.

I have mentioned that most cars tend to and it is only part of the ageing process. So it was not specifically against Hyundai.

I also said that the other cars exception to the statement also rattle but is relatively less.

Thanks for chipping in Jaggu, I have seen quite a few Santros, 2 Hyundai Accents for quite some time before i made that statement. This is apart from the numerous ownership reviews and othet threads that I have read over the years.

Last edited by Eddy : 29th October 2009 at 18:16. Reason: Please avoid posting multiple back to back posts. Use the edit option if posting within 20 min. Thanks
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Old 29th October 2009, 18:25   #175
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See this rattle business sometimes gets to me, i really dont understand why its overhyped? For a friend of mine, a rattle can be a small irritating resonating switch for the ORVM, for me it might be the whole window assembly rattling. In the above case former is an innocent but nagging one thats all.

But at the end of the day cars run over broken tarmac will eventually have some amount of rattle esp as they age. Be it Merc or Maruti or Fiat or Honda or Hyundai. But this doesnt decide much for cars in India atleast, if so Swift wont even move out from showrooms.

So relax guys and let it rattle, we all need something or the other to crib naah
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Old 29th October 2009, 19:03   #176
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Well said Jaggu, I appreciate the way you had phrased it, "But at the end of the day cars run over broken tarmac will eventually have some amount of rattle esp as they age.".

This is what I also wanted to highlight and the point i mentioned was only on a relative basis.
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Old 30th October 2009, 18:33   #177
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My experience with Hyundai's tells me that they are more rattle free than most other cars sold in India. First exposure : Rehaan's rattle-free Accent which had run more than my 5,000 kms rattling OHC on a Panchgani drive. Or my cousin's 50,000 kms run Santro.

Either ways, we'd be unnecessary judgemental is dissing the i20's interiors by posting "they are prone to rattling after a while". No i20 as of today rattles, and only time will tell if they do after logging on the miles. Even if they eventually start rattling, that's surely preferred over the loosely fitted parts and uneven panel gaps of brand new Puntos. Fact is, forget the Punto, the i20's interior quality beats that of cars twice as expensive.

Lets keep this discussion real.
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Old 30th October 2009, 19:47   #178
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I had mentioned this and let me try end it also... the statement was made stating.. we have to see how it holds up over the years. It was nt mentioned that i20 will rattle....

It is a mixed bag on rattling with Hyundai's. Some do, some dont do. So it get s to be very personal beyond the point of general reference.

The point was not made to offend Hyundai or anyone owning a Hyundai.
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Old 5th April 2010, 02:18   #179
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This thread was very useful for me as we have already booked and done with the finances of our 1.3MultiJet Nova White PUNTO, registering and delivery are pending.
Thanks all especially SidIndica

Can I know the top Speed 1.3Multijet can reach ? Company claims 140Kph but any user crossed that line ?

Last edited by Sujith1100 : 5th April 2010 at 02:21.
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Old 5th April 2010, 08:07   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sujith1100 View Post
This thread was very useful for me as we have already booked and done with the finances of our 1.3MultiJet Nova White PUNTO, registering and delivery are pending.
Thanks all especially SidIndica

Can I know the top Speed 1.3Multijet can reach ? Company claims 140Kph but any user crossed that line ?
Sujith,

I have taken my MJD to 150 on the Mumbai Pune Expressway. 120 is very easy but after that the MJD goes to begging crying mode.
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