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Old 1st August 2009, 23:40   #61
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I know it wasnt aimed at my post, but then no one is actually debating the benefits of ABS

PS: I saw a brand new White Getz CRDi on the residency road flyover tonight(around 8:00ish) and I peeped in and stared at the occupants. I was half expecting to see Raj in it! He wasnt there though. I had forgotten which colour he had ordered.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 00:37   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
yes if you compare a stock appolo accelere and AD-07 there will be tremendous increase in grip leading to better braking, yes skidding is what i also mean here but in panic situations. i don't think it will be as good as ABS. i never argued that neovas are bad!! my argument is that both having ABS and neovas on a non ABS equipped vehicle is not the same!!
When there is more grip, tyres lock up later than when there is no grip. ABS doesn't need to cut in if you have an ABS equipped car. I found it next to impossible to lock up Nikhil's NHC VTEC's wheels even when standing on the brakes from 120 km/hr. At those speeds, on my car with PP2s, I can feel ABS kicking in every single time.

Anyway my PP2s are going to the dumpster soon.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 00:49   #63
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Guys
Please continue the above discussion here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...on-thread.html (The ABS discussion thread)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-abs-cars.html (Can the functionality of ABS be simulated on Non-ABS cars?)
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Old 3rd August 2009, 11:13   #64
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@Ravenblood - congrats dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Raj, I sincerely suggest you go for 205/50 R15 Neovas on the Getz. It could save your life. Nikhil, trust me on this, with the kind of power and driving style Raj's Getz is going to see, 195 just won't cut it.

BTW, if you still want 195s, I'm sacking my PP2s. :P
Now i am really confused .

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
I kind of felt that the thread opener has the feeling that not having ABS can be justified by using advan neovas!!.
Having driven a non-abs car (ikon) and elantra crdi i have experienced a lot and both on performance tyres.

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
PS: I saw a brand new White Getz CRDi on the residency road flyover tonight(around 8:00ish) and I peeped in and stared at the occupants. I was half expecting to see Raj in it! He wasnt there though. I had forgotten which colour he had ordered.
Mine is silver.

Found a guy who can drill existing getz rotors.

Planning to do all these to improve breaking system in getz..
Advan Neovas tyres,
performance brake pads,
Drilled rotors.

what say guys?

Last edited by brraj : 3rd August 2009 at 11:17.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 11:54   #65
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Found a guy who can drill existing getz rotors.
Hey good one how much does it cost for the drilling?

Shyam
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Old 3rd August 2009, 11:56   #66
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rajeev what you have mentioned is a good idea.
do keep us posted. i think its possible to go for rear disc conversion. but its not that advised with out ABS since it will lead to more frequent skidding since the breaks will make the weight balance of the front heavy getz go for a toss.

to get a feel of what i am saying, take off any ABS related fuse from a verna ABS vehicle and rip and break hard you will know what i meant

i didnt mean any offence to anyone
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Old 3rd August 2009, 14:00   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brraj View Post

Found a guy who can drill existing getz rotors.
Bad idea. I would not risk my life with some jugaad job done here in India, no one has the necessary equipment or the knowledge about mettalurgy which is very important IMO. Rajiv, drilling rotors is a meticulous process and best done by those who have the right equipment to carry out the job. I suggest you send it abroad and get a custom job done if the need be it or talk to Peter.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 3rd August 2009 at 14:02.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 14:43   #68
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how about race dynamics?? dont they have the tools?
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Old 3rd August 2009, 14:51   #69
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you are HIGHLY mistaken my friend...

Cheers,
Shrey

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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Bad idea. I would not risk my life with some jugaad job done here in India, no one has the necessary equipment or the knowledge about mettalurgy which is very important IMO. Rajiv, drilling rotors is a meticulous process and best done by those who have the right equipment to carry out the job. I suggest you send it abroad and get a custom job done if the need be it or talk to Peter.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 15:02   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi View Post
Hey good one how much does it cost for the drilling?

Shyam
He told he will let us know shortly.
We can get less price if more the numbers and not just getz you can drill any car rotors.

karthik kumar told a pair of tarox rotors for swift will cost around 25k now we are lucky to drill existing rotors and save thousands of rupees.
My old elantra is already given to drill rotors ,).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
i think its possible to go for rear disc conversion. but its not that advised with out ABS since it will lead to more frequent skidding since the breaks will make the weight balance of the front heavy getz go for a toss.
yes, i am not going for rear disk conversion for obvious reasons mentioned by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Bad idea. I would not risk my life with some jugaad job done here in India, no one has the necessary equipment or the knowledge about mettalurgy which is very important IMO. Rajiv, drilling rotors is a meticulous process and best done by those who have the right equipment to carry out the job. I suggest you send it abroad and get a custom job done if the need be it or talk to Peter.
The guy behind this is RaceDynamics team, i guess they have already tried and test it long back for their cars.
Today evening i am going to RD, Why dont you come over we can discuss with sanjay.

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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
how about race dynamics?? dont they have the tools?
You found it, i am getting things done from them.

Last edited by brraj : 3rd August 2009 at 15:04.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 17:02   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
you are HIGHLY mistaken my friend...

Cheers,
Shrey
Shrey! You are welcome to try anything you want on your car. I wouldn't risk MY life with such jugaad jobs done by ANYONE in India unless they have a sound knowledge about metallurgy (like a degree in chemistry or something). I am willing to be a part of experimentation with engines, suspension, but NOT brakes. I don't think big companies like Brembo, Tarox etc are fools to spend thousands of $ to do R&D before coming out with their products. If it was as easy as just drilling holes into stock rotors, every manufacturer could have done it. Why are Tarox, Brembo, Willwood's so expensive then?

To anyone who thinks he has the know how to drill rotors in India I have a few questions:

1. Is there a specific design pattern for drilling the holes or one can just drill holes wherever he wants? What if on the contrary the hole pattern is not able to dissipate the heat out properly?

2. Drilling holes into a metal can make the metal brittle. Or so we were taught in Chemistry classes. What is done to prevent shear and stress on the metal? Do you know that the highest chances of a crack are on the edges of the drilled holes? And this crack can then grow and lead to some serious complications? How many tuners even know what hot spots are? Or have the equipment to view the hot spots and measure the temperatures to see if the metal can handle that kind of stress? This is what happens behind those close R&D labs of Brembo etc IMO. They check the strength of every metal, its weakness, subject it to tests a common man or no tuner in India can imagine and come up with a product.

Like I mentioned earlier, I would not risk my life specially doing some jugaad job on the brakes. Given that Satya, Rajiv are very dear friends of mine, knowing their driving styles and the speeds we normally do I would recommend a thorough professional job even if it means asking Tarox to build a custom order at a ridiculous price. Ever heard of the phrase "Cheap and reliable wont be fast, cheap and fast wont be reliable, reliable and fast wont be cheap." I have learnt it the hard way, someday you will too.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 17:16   #72
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couple of questions to those with getz? is the rotors on both the petrol and the diesel the same?. is it 12 inch type.

can someone post the code on the disc fr - wheel packet id possible.

there are drilled ones available for the 12 inch type. with code 51712 2c700

these are avaialable from seoul racing. expensive obviously.

hard chance for these to fit on the indian getz still give it a try.

there is one another way to increase the breaking power. increase the brake booster power. if there is a way to use the same booster setup as on the verna then getz can have better braking power.

it might be possible that the getz crdi and verna crdi has the same brake boosters already. in that case forget all i said

@ mclarren i can easilty make out that you would have screwed an engine right. or someone led you into screwing one??

the above mentioned method is the only hard way i can think of

and by the way. i am pretty sure that most of the rally cars abroad do run drilled rotors, better brake calipers etc. if RD is indeed doing such stuff on indian rally scene then i dont think there is need to doubt RD guys after all as far as i have heard. the cars done up from RD usually go the full way to victory. this indeed speaks well of them.

i also for one don't think the brake rotors will be out unless tested for 1000's of kms.
but yes i really dont think india is that advanced in this area. since in india its more on the road testing. risk is higher . whereas outside india unless R&D is passed the product and all possible scientific lab tests are passed, a product wont see daylight!!!!!
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Old 3rd August 2009, 17:29   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
@ mclarren i can easilty make out that you would have screwed an engine right. or someone led you into screwing one??
My tryst with engines is a long story and last thing we need is to hijack this thread. You can read my threads about "what it takes to own a modded car" to know more..

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and by the way. i am pretty sure that most of the rally cars abroad do run drilled rotors, better brake calipers etc.
Yup you are right, but they are from some of the best companies in the world.

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if RD is indeed doing such stuff on indian rally scene then i dont think there is need to doubt RD guys after all as far as i have heard. the cars done up from RD usually go the full way to victory. this indeed speaks well of them.
Race Dynamics primarily started out as a company building standalone/piggyback ECU's. And I must say Karthik has left each one of us speechless with his tremendous hard work and skill. I deeply respect him and is my idol in fact (it was my long lasting dream to build cheap(er) ECU's for our cars having joined E&C engineering as my main branch but Karthik is living my dream ). Almost every rally car has the RD sticker on it because they are running the ECU and doesn't necessarily mean the car is "built" by RD.

However, correct me if I am wrong. How many rally cars in India are running cross drilled rotors? Is one allowed to given the regulations? I am not a big fan of INRC and my knowledge is very limited. But having visited a few rally's I am yet to come across a car thats running on drilled rotors (aftermarket). Rally boys, can you correct me if I am wrong?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 3rd August 2009 at 17:31.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 20:24   #74
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Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
there is one another way to increase the breaking power. increase the brake booster power. if there is a way to use the same booster setup as on the verna then getz can have better braking power.

it might be possible that the getz crdi and verna crdi has the same brake boosters already. in that case forget all i said
How can brake boosters help here? I mean the only problem with the already available brakes are that they tend to lock when stomped upon. Brake booster increase the braking capacity and not the power hence leading to even more locking, right?

Shyam
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Old 3rd August 2009, 23:06   #75
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thats true but when the tyres have better grip locking is reduced. that coupled with more breaking capacity helps in better braking or reduced braking distance.
increasing braking capacity is what is done with higher pot brake calipers.

better rotors [ drilled ones] , have more better cooling property and hence work better over longer period of time. and due to less frictinal area of contact with the pads, the bite is progressive to an extent.

rotors with better thread patterns help in progressive breaking, the brake pads wont be able to bite them hard enough to lock up the tyres.[ varying contact patch depending on thread pattern] ( a simple example is tarox equipped swifts) listen carefully for a humming sound in such swifts while braking

plane rotors, are designed with limitations. they lead to instant bite. not progressive bite since the disc is plane. yes the brake calipers and pads can be designed to minimize the bite but making it progressive is an uphill task!.

best way to study these is with olden days discs and the new age discs on bikes. see the disc pattern. latest one in india is petal disc i guess. these kinds of better heat dissipating patterns gives even better braking capacity.
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