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Old 3rd August 2009, 12:19   #16
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SmartRisk,

Congrats on the buy!

Do perform the PDI properly and no, they will not let you drive it around.

Do post few photos of the delivery day.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 12:24   #17
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
sunilrj, which car do you mean by the turbo?
If you mean the first generation indica, its the same as the indigo/vista TDI engine

Sorry My mistake. i went to type Dicor and ended up typing Turbo! forgive me!!
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Old 3rd August 2009, 19:10   #18
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Thanks all.

From the above responses, I thought I'd summarize following *views* (since no safire owner has corroborated so far) about Safire:
1. Safire seems to be underpowered.
2. TATA A$$ is not upto the mark.
3. Safire resale value would be low
4. CNG on Safire is not a viable option in long term.

Of these, I had an inkling of the first 3 problems before I took the decision to go ahead with Safire. Frankly, I found the vehicle just adequately powered (or maybe I haven't been exposed to conditions enough where more power is required in normal city driving).Also, comparing it to 1.1Getz, the specs seem almost similar.

As I mentioned in my first post, I have a gut feeling about TATA A$$ improvements, but you're correct that it won't happen overnight and thus, I might not benefit it during my usage period. In fact, I am already starting to have some experience of dealer-apathy about which I will post shortly.

I do expect the resale value to be low, but considering that I am saving almost 25% $$ upfront (1L/4.3L), I'd rather have cash in my hand which I could use for better returns elsewhere If I just consider a decent 10% return per year, it comes to about 46.5K in 4 years!

As far as CNG conversion (in longer term) is concerned, I still have the question whether it is due to being a TATA vehicle that its considered not feasible or the specific safire model which is seemingly underpowered that
hence considered infeasible?

It does seem that there are not many (or none) safire owners around here. Request any safire owner to kindly respond.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 22:13   #19
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Thumbs up Congrats!

smartrisk,
as your name says it all, you have taken a smart decision with a small risk. But then, whats not associated with risk these days? So Congrats. About this mostly depressive thread, I know I would be put off by so many negative comments about the car, especially if I have just booked one. With no offense to anyone, I havent seen many Tata owners, much less Vista/Safire owners commenting on their experiences here. So thought will join in.

1. Underpowered -According to me, its a very relative term based on many things. Mostly, what other cars you have driven before and how much you liked their power. Someone who drives sedately may never ever realize that his car is underpowered for the entire time he has the car. If you drove the 1.2 Safire and stepped into a 1.8 ANHC, you are on top of the world and may feel Safire is underpowered (relative to the ANHC of course). Then again, if a M5 is your daily drive, then you may feel most of the mortal cars (including the apparently overpowered ANHC) are grossly underpowered.

And is there someone here in tbhp who claims that he is content with the power of his present car? I thought everyone wants more and they go to any length to get that extra bit of juice. Right from 25Rupee performance enhancing stickers to Obscenely expensive Mods and what not

2. Tata A$$ - again it depends on your locality and how lucky you are. For my 800 and Zen, I had pathetic service with MASCs. Ford has not been that great either. With Tata, people swear by Concorde in Ambattur, Chennai. Yet, the same company's workshop at ECR, Chennai is despised by many. Go Figure!

3. Safire Resale - I personally tend to think you need to worry about resale and all if you have invested 10+ lakhs on your car and would be devastated to see them depreciate faster than you can spell 'depreciate', as those premium cars normally do.

Now for a relatively inexpensive car like ours, imho your reasoning is correct and i thought the same when i was shopping too. It hardly matters in 5 years time (a normal tenure) especially when our initial investment has been minimal.

Now before other comments about niggles/plastics etc, which am sure will, come up... my justification was simple. I loved the exterior design of the swift, the beautiful interiors of the i20, the versatility of Jazz and the build quality of Fabia. But in my particular case, I needed a car that could seat two 6 footers one in front of the other.

Now pray, in my case, what good is the beautiful swift exterior design or the uber cool interiors of i20 when I possibly cannot sit and ride comfortably in the car for a considerable amount of time?

I am sure no one will call their economy seats in the ultra cramped A320s marvelous just coz its cockpit is loaded with the latest gizmos or it has beautiful wings! At the end of the day, no other car in this price band offers as much space as vista does and if yours is an average Indian family of 5, like most of ours are, you will appreciate this fact even more.

As for Jazz/Fabia, I simply cannot afford 8 lakh rupee hatchbacks.

Of course, no offense to any other brand car owners, its a unique application in my case - couple of tall people in the household and if a car can fit all of us, ride comfortably, is frugal relatively with cheap spares if it gets into trouble :- we are grateful and don't mind a rattle here or there.
-------------------------------------------
1. I got the engine number and chassis number from my dealer. Verified it against the yahoo group thread. Then checked the odo. Thats about it. Not able to decode what you have posted. This link is in case you already dont have it.

2. Visible PDI + T-Bhp check list only in my case. Didnt drive it before deliver. Started it though to check AC/Lights/Windows/Electricals.

3. As greenhorn before me, Teflon Coating is generally not recommended in this forum. Considering you live in Mumbai, you can get an underbody anti-rust coating (that comes with 5 year free touch ups).

As for film go to a reputed professional installer of a good brand (VKool/Llumar/3M/SolarGard/Garware). Get the front windshield+rear+sides. Legal Version is 70s in the front. 50% for sides+rear. However in chennai, cops aint that strict and we can get away with 38%.

Sorry for the long rant. Couldnt help it.

Awaiting your pics and continued updates on the Vista Safire. (Formal initiation into the Vista V Club of T-Bhp requires obligatory posting delivery exp in detail with pics of the beauty. )

Last edited by jpm : 3rd August 2009 at 22:16.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 22:48   #20
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Smartrisk,
Welcome to the vista club. I think you pretty much nailed the reasoning part. Vista is one of the best buys and is a VFM across all its variants. As far as the power is concerned, like JPM mentioned, it is a very relative experience and for a sedate driver, it should not be an issue.
And as far as Tata A** is concerned, it is sure has improved. I have experienced great service so far. Was attended to promptly, all queries clarified, follow-up calls, SMS messages when car is ready for pickup etc...
Lastly, i dont think resale is the primary criteria when buying a new car. In my opinion, a well maintained car always fetches a good price and if you are in it for the long run, it definitely would have paid off.
So go on, take the delivery and do post the pics and the experience.
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Old 4th August 2009, 06:53   #21
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@jpm
My salute for your very nice post. You have shown how one should welcome newborn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartrisk View Post
Thanks all.

From the above responses, I thought I'd summarize following *views* (since no safire owner has corroborated so far) about Safire:
1. Safire seems to be underpowered.
2. TATA A$$ is not upto the mark.
3. Safire resale value would be low
4. CNG on Safire is not a viable option in long term.

Of these, I had an inkling of the first 3 problems before I took the decision to go ahead with Safire.

I do expect the resale value to be low, but considering that I am saving almost 25% $$ upfront (1L/4.3L), I'd rather have cash in my hand which I could use for better returns elsewhere If I just consider a decent 10% return per year, it comes to about 46.5K in 4 years!

As far as CNG conversion (in longer term) is concerned, I still have the question whether it is due to being a TATA vehicle that its considered not feasible or the specific safire model which is seemingly underpowered that
hence considered infeasible?
Few point i would like to make for smartrisk to aid his thought process despite knowing he has nearly made up his mind
1. Vista is a heavy built car(1075 Kg) and CNG result in lesser power upto 15 %. Hence CNG feasibility issue additionally the age of engine 2-3 yrs down the road will any way tend to reduce(which any way is seemingly underpowered by some opinions)
2. The price diff in Saffire and TDI should not be very large it should be ~25K. Hence redo your maths for payback period of 5-6 years etc.

hope my inputs are usefull
thanks

Last edited by sanagg1 : 4th August 2009 at 06:55.
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Old 4th August 2009, 07:14   #22
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My brother also has booked the Petrol Vista in the Terra version, we drove all three varients namely Petrol, TDI and Quadra, Quadra is the best to drive, second best is the Petrol and the last is the TDI. The problem with the TDI is that there is too much lag and then a sudden boost, which I din't like at all. The Petrol in my opinion has enough power and feels much better to drive than the TDI.
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Old 4th August 2009, 11:06   #23
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Congrats smartrisk!

The Vista Safire is definitely not bad as it is made out to be. My colleague got one 2 months ago and it is still in its running in period , he is a novice/learner and initial FE suggests that it is currently returning between 10-11 kmpl in b2b conditions in CHE.

Second gear is a bit of a weak cog but otherwise the little engine is quite tractable.I did a TD before he bought it and we took it upto 100 kmph, in gear acceleration was good (as compared to my V2 DLS) and we were 4 people in the car. After 100 kmph there was quite a bit of wind noise, but our TD car was in a bad shape with some missing beadings, misaligned fender,bumper etc so cannot be really sure.

btw I am starting to notice a significant number of Safires in CHE nowadays.

According to ACI's small car shoot out for petrol cars - Vista was second behind Fabia and ahead of Punto,Ritz,Jazz,i20 (dont remember the order) .

Cheers

P.S I think WDB on this forum has a Safire as well, but I did not see any updates on his thread since months. You could PM him for more info on his experiences so far.

Last edited by indivic : 4th August 2009 at 11:08.
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Old 7th August 2009, 01:27   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpm View Post
smartrisk,
as your name says it all, you have taken a smart decision with a small risk. But then, whats not associated with risk these days? So Congrats. About this mostly depressive thread, I know I would be put off by so many negative comments about the car, especially if I have just booked one. With no offense to anyone, I havent seen many Tata owners, much less Vista/Safire owners commenting on their experiences here. So thought will join in.
Thanks so much for your post jpm! It really lifted up my spirits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpm View Post

...
But in my particular case, I needed a car that could seat two 6 footers one in front of the other.

....

Of course, no offense to any other brand car owners, its a unique application in my case - couple of tall people in the household and if a car can fit all of us, ride comfortably, is frugal relatively with cheap spares if it gets into trouble :- we are grateful and don't mind a rattle here or there.
In my case, this was also a plus point for vista- I am almost 6 feet and simply didn't like the feel of cramped cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpm View Post
1. I got the engine number and chassis number from my dealer. Verified it against the yahoo group thread. Then checked the odo. Thats about it. Not able to decode what you have posted. This link is in case you already dont have it.
It seems that the chassis number structure has changed for vista since april - it now starts with a MAT code. I have more to talk about this - will post in the one coming after this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpm View Post
2. Visible PDI + T-Bhp check list only in my case. Didnt drive it before deliver. Started it though to check AC/Lights/Windows/Electricals.

3. As greenhorn before me, Teflon Coating is generally not recommended in this forum. Considering you live in Mumbai, you can get an underbody anti-rust coating (that comes with 5 year free touch ups).

As for film go to a reputed professional installer of a good brand (VKool/Llumar/3M/SolarGard/Garware). Get the front windshield+rear+sides. Legal Version is 70s in the front. 50% for sides+rear. However in chennai, cops aint that strict and we can get away with 38%.

Sorry for the long rant. Couldnt help it.

Awaiting your pics and continued updates on the Vista Safire. (Formal initiation into the Vista V Club of T-Bhp requires obligatory posting delivery exp in detail with pics of the beauty. )
Thanks again. I need to do some reading on the type/prices of films. Do not think the Garware ones which the dealer has agreed to give as a freebie would be any good. Me too awaiting to set my eyes on car - once i do, would definitely include the pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vista_qjd View Post
Smartrisk,
Welcome to the vista club. I think you pretty much nailed the reasoning part. Vista is one of the best buys and is a VFM across all its variants. As far as the power is concerned, like JPM mentioned, it is a very relative experience and for a sedate driver, it should not be an issue.
And as far as Tata A** is concerned, it is sure has improved. I have experienced great service so far. Was attended to promptly, all queries clarified, follow-up calls, SMS messages when car is ready for pickup etc...
Lastly, i dont think resale is the primary criteria when buying a new car. In my opinion, a well maintained car always fetches a good price and if you are in it for the long run, it definitely would have paid off.
So go on, take the delivery and do post the pics and the experience.
Thanks vista_qjd. Will post the pics soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanagg1 View Post
@jpm
My salute for your very nice post. You have shown how one should welcome newborn.


Few point i would like to make for smartrisk to aid his thought process despite knowing he has nearly made up his mind
1. Vista is a heavy built car(1075 Kg) and CNG result in lesser power upto 15 %. Hence CNG feasibility issue additionally the age of engine 2-3 yrs down the road will any way tend to reduce(which any way is seemingly underpowered by some opinions)
2. The price diff in Saffire and TDI should not be very large it should be ~25K. Hence redo your maths for payback period of 5-6 years etc.

hope my inputs are usefull
thanks
Agree with you sanagg1. I did feel that Vista weight might be a negative factor in CNG upgrade but anyway, that's only an option I was thinking of, in case my driving increases in future. As of now, for my low commute, I'd do with the petrol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
My brother also has booked the Petrol Vista in the Terra version, we drove all three varients namely Petrol, TDI and Quadra, Quadra is the best to drive, second best is the Petrol and the last is the TDI. The problem with the TDI is that there is too much lag and then a sudden boost, which I din't like at all. The Petrol in my opinion has enough power and feels much better to drive than the TDI.
Thanks musicmanaman, I also spoke to 2-3 safire owners randomly whenever I could get a chance. They seemed pretty happy with their vehicle. One of them did mention the A/C problem but said it was rectified in first service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indivic View Post
Congrats smartrisk!

The Vista Safire is definitely not bad as it is made out to be. My colleague got one 2 months ago and it is still in its running in period , he is a novice/learner and initial FE suggests that it is currently returning between 10-11 kmpl in b2b conditions in CHE.

Second gear is a bit of a weak cog but otherwise the little engine is quite tractable.I did a TD before he bought it and we took it upto 100 kmph, in gear acceleration was good (as compared to my V2 DLS) and we were 4 people in the car. After 100 kmph there was quite a bit of wind noise, but our TD car was in a bad shape with some missing beadings, misaligned fender,bumper etc so cannot be really sure.

btw I am starting to notice a significant number of Safires in CHE nowadays.

According to ACI's small car shoot out for petrol cars - Vista was second behind Fabia and ahead of Punto,Ritz,Jazz,i20 (dont remember the order) .

Cheers

P.S I think WDB on this forum has a Safire as well, but I did not see any updates on his thread since months. You could PM him for more info on his experiences so far.
Thanks for the information indivic. I've sent a PM WDB - awaiting his response.

Update:

Today I had a tussle with the dealer (Wasan Motors, Borivali).
During booking, I had mentioned very categorically that I want only > May 2009 manufactured vehicle. My reasons for this were two-fold. Firstly it would (to a certain extent) mean that the vehicle has not been used mindlessly as test vehicle although I do plan to go to stockyard for PDI. Secondly, I had heard on other forums and I do hope that some problems (for e.g. A/c) would be rectified in the later batches. However, the dealer allotted a vehicle to me (chassis no. is in my first post) and after decoding it, it was clearly a May 2009 one! When I raised the matter strongly, the manager at the dealership, Mr. Nilesh Shah, apologized but said that even he was not aware of the decoding technique of the new chassis numbers, let alone his salesman and hence did not know that it was May manufactured! This could be either an excuse or worse, a reality.After my giving him an earful, he said that the allotment procedure doesn't allow them a choice to ensure a particular month manufactured vehicle. He explained that once they place an order, TATA provides them a vehicle which the dealers allocates to customer. I insisted that I would not accept delivery of the allotted vehicle, so he agreed that he would place a fresh order (and allot the current vehicle to any other customer). But he again mentioned that although he would write email and mention in the order form to request a June/July manufactured vehicle to TATA, he cannot assure me that the vehicle would not be of May month as they do not have any control over the way TATA assigns them vehicle.

Now, I have following questions:
1. Till what point in buying cycle can I legally cancel a vehicle without paying penalty (or forfeiting part of my booking money).
2. Is it true that the dealer has no control over the vehicle which TATA allocates to them?
3. Is it possible that vista safire (aura red) is still being sold off the May 2009 versions?
3. The manager gave me a verbal assurance that he would help if there are any issues in the vehicle. I requested a written letter but he refused it. So, at this points, what are the options that I have?

Thanks.
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Old 7th August 2009, 07:28   #25
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@Smartrisk
my answers are in bold
Now, I have following questions:
1. Till what point in buying cycle can I legally cancel a vehicle without paying penalty (or forfeiting part of my booking money).
Only till your cheque is honoured !
2. Is it true that the dealer has no control over the vehicle which TATA allocates to them?
To a large extent yes but not 100% to avoid foulplay at dealer level
3. Is it possible that vista safire (aura red) is still being sold off the May 2009 versions?
Lead time for slower moving(volume wise) saffire should be ~2-3months
3. The manager gave me a verbal assurance that he would help if there are any issues in the vehicle. I requested a written letter but he refused it. So, at this points, what are the options that I have?
If you have very definitive information about car mfd. upto May 2009 have a problem, stick to reallocation
else IMHO go for may09 car

cheers


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Old 7th August 2009, 07:54   #26
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Quote:
he manager gave me a verbal assurance that he would help if there are any issues in the vehicle
you neednt get it in writing. its already exists. Its called a warranty

just be anal about the PDI and while taking delivery. if you find anything strange. raise hell.
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