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Old 2nd August 2009, 19:07   #1
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Default Booked! TATA Indica Vista Safire Aura

Hello All!

Umpteen hours of pouring over reviews and keeping all apprehensions aside, I finally decided to go for Indica Vista Safire (Aura Gala-red color) . I'll give a brief description of my thought process and also seek answers to some lingering questions.

Before I start, this is my first post on T-BHP, a wonderful forum which I am lucky to be a part of and which I've scanned day in and day out over the past few months. Also, this would be my first car and my first driving experience (actually I had driven briefly in US, but that's completely different experience what with Auto-transmission, discplined driving etc.).

My needs: A car which is modern yet affordable, spacious yet cheaper, good-looking & exclusive yet is accessbile (from service point of view). I also wanted the car to be used for a longer duration (being influenced by this wonderful post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...rade-swap.html (ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap?)). Having no background in cars, I was open to any thoughts which world-wide-web would throw at me.

Options: Since I wanted a modern car and a limited budget (5L stretchable to 6Lmax), I only looked at newly launched cars for each major car companies: Maruti: Swift, Dzire, A-star, Ritz, Hyundai: i10, i20, Tata: Nano, Vista, Mahindra: Logan, Chevy: Spark, Uva, Aveo, Ford: Fiesta , Fiat: Palio, (Punto). I had initially looked at buying a used-car but dropped the idea after various cautionary advices received from well-wishers, especially considering that I am a first-time driver.

First-impression: Car=sedan, cost-conscious=diesel, so putting these impressions together and considering my budget, I wanted to go for Logan. Ofcourse, this was before I did any research and the decision changed the moment I started analysing my needs more practically.

Post-research on various forums and discussions with friends:
Decision 1:
I would not go into details of giving pros-cons of each of above cars as these have been much widely discussed, but the list ultimately came down to i10 and Vista. Obviously cost-wise vista was cheaper but had read many-a-scary tales of TATA A$$. Ultimately, however, I decided to go for Vista for following reasons:
1. I believe (or rather hope) that TATA A$$ is *improving* and with time, as they serve more niche section of people (with Jags, Puntos, Lineas), they would be forced to improve.
2. I am aware that I might be required to spend considerable time with service centers considering the niggling problems that TATA vehicles are known for -- and I am mentally ready for that (At the back of my mind, I am being positive that this way I would atleast learn about automobiles in general and cars in particular).
3. I dont like the shape of i10's front. Though this should not be a glaring reason to not go for the car, I thought that if every morning when I look at it, I keep getting turned off, what's the fun, eh?
4. Other factors: cheaper spares, hyundai-plant-shifting-(i20)-production-from-india-effects?, Indian company (flattery jingoism, actually).

Decision 2:
Petrol v/s diesel: My daily commute would be <30 kms for a year atleast after which there were chances that it might go to ~ 50 - 55 kms/day. In the beginning, I wanted a diesel (knowing that diesel is cheaper than petrol), but having read numerous threads of diesel v/s petrol, I ultimately decided to go for petrol although knowing that my commute would increase in future. Reason:
1. I wanted to keep the option of CNG open, considering its cheaper than diesel, environment-friendly and hoping that while I use petrol car, the availability of CNG and CNG-cars/kits would be more and hence technology would standardize - I can always get a kit fitted after-market.
2. Though Vista Quadrajet is more accomplished car(whatcar rated it best amongst Ritz, Punto, Swift and Vista), the cost difference (1L initial cost difference+ interest lost on 1L + 10 - 15% higher maintenance cost) simply didn't justify it. Additionally, I thought that this being my first car, I should not get carried away with 'turbo-kicks' and stick to sedate driving, whilst enjoying the pleasures of petrol engine.

And so, Indica vista safire it is then!

Buying process:
I mainly dealt with 3 dealers in Mumbai, of which 1 is very close to my home: just 2 blocks away and hence was topmost in my mind. However, if I had received a better deal from other dealers, I was ready to go for others too. Ultimately, all 3 provided almost similar quotes, so I decided to go for the closest one.

Dealer name: Wasan Motors, Borivali
Salesman: Aniket/Kuldeep.
Cost: 3,94,200 (Ex-showroom) + 14802 (Reliance Insurance) + 33594 (Registration & service charges) + 2000 (Logistic charges) + 4425 (2 yrs extended warranty) = 4,49,021/-
Discounts: 14802 (free insurance) , 4000 (corporate discount) , 2000 (dealer discount).
Final cost: 4,28,000/-
Freebies:
Mudflaps,
Matting
Steering cover
Sunfulm (Garware - 45% heat reduction)
Teflon coating (onetime)

Dealer experience (so far): Good (though, I must say that I had went with a printout of all issues vista owners had listed in T-bhp and carwale forums, but they feigned ignorance to most issues. They said most problems have been taken care of by TATA in first 3-4 months of launch which included: A/C problem and power -steering).

Questions:
1. I have asked for PDI at their Bhiwandi stockyard. I've been alloted a vehicle with chassis no: MAT 611241 GPE XXXXX. The dealer interpreted this number (G) as July manufactured. Can anyone please decode the above and confirm? I reckon that there is a typo (or intentional?) by dealer in giving me the number based on information on other threads which have MAT numbers having 9PE (instead of GPE) in which case it comes to May 2009. I had specifically asked dealer to get a vehicle later than May 2009 so if it is indeed May manufactured, I'd refuse acceptance of delivery. Is there any other way of confirming manufacture date before registration other than decoding chassis number?

2. I have the PDI list (thanks to T-BHP), however, do they allow test-drive of vehicles at stockyard. If not, would only visible inspection + confirming engine/chassis number suffice?

3. The dealer is giving onetime Teflon coating and Garware (45% heat reduction) sunfilm. Since, cooling problems have been reported in Vista, should I buy better sunfilm from dealer (or aftermarket - would this void warranty or be more costly)? If yes, then should I ask the dealer to provide underbody anti-rust (3 yrs warranty) instead of Teflon+sunfilm (the dealer says that anti-rust costs 2500/- and hence he can provide that only if I forgo teflon (1K) and sunfilm both)?

4. Any other words of advices/recommendations/warnings are most welcome!

Thanks for your patience to go through this longish maiden post!
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Old 2nd August 2009, 19:39   #2
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get better heat rejection sunfilm from elsewhere. might be a bit costly, but you need it.
teflon coating is useless, avoid!

If you were planning on going CNG, I'd strongly recommend you avoid that route, especially on a tata car.

If I were in your shoes ( and i once was), I'd buy the vista TDI. You'll shortly find out why .Too many reasons to list out...
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Old 2nd August 2009, 20:01   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
get better heat rejection sunfilm from elsewhere. might be a bit costly, but you need it.
teflon coating is useless, avoid!
Thanks greenhorn for super quick reply. That's what even I've been contemplating! I'd go for anti-rust then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
If you were planning on going CNG, I'd strongly recommend you avoid that route, especially on a tata car.
Is this because of the *heavy* car that vista is? Or is this better avoided generally for TATA cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
If I were in your shoes ( and i once was), I'd buy the vista TDI. You'll shortly find out why .Too many reasons to list out...
I've read advantages of vista TDI - believe me, I'd strongly considered even quadrajet, since I could've accomodated in my budjet, but then the cost recovery period would have been just too long (almost 5-6 years).
I do intend to keep the vehicle long, but if the general trends change (for e.g, CNG is encouraged by govt.), then I did not want to carry a baggage. Having said that, are there any particular disadvantages of owning safire? From the reviews that I've read, everybody seems to agree that it's a good car for sedate city driving. Please provide details.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 21:34   #4
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Congratulations, on your new Vista Safire! This is one of the very few Vista Safires on the forum. Do keep updating the thread.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 23:21   #5
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Thanks safari_lover.
In fact, slightly off-topic, somehow I find more junta on T-BHP are diesel lovers. Is this because the more active members are more frequent travelers which automatically translate to them being diesel-oriented considering it is more economic ? Or it just my impression
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Old 2nd August 2009, 23:31   #6
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Congratulations on your decision to buy a car.

If you have not taken the delivery or the vehicle is not registered yet, I suggest stay away!

Like greenhorn said, you will get to know better once you have the vehicle.

I personally having owned a Tata (sold off), there is very little resale value for Tata Petrol Cars. Any cabbie would pick up the diesel, but not a petrol. I had intention of having the Tata car for a long term, but eventually sold it in 2.5 years at 40% the price with no accidents on the car and only 15k Kms done.

Exterior Looks are only till the time you get in the vehicle. Once you are inside the car, its what you have inside the hood (read engine). If looks are your priority, there are beautiful cars in your budget. If you looking for driving pleasure and owning experience stay away from Tata atleast the petrol cars.

Sincere advise to you, go for i10, i20, Punto, Ritz, not considering Swift Petrol since its due for a engine change.

As far as Hyundai shifting its base from India is a distinct possibility.
Hyundai has spent tremendous amount of money setting up plant and identifying the local resources may be the raw material and laborers.
Hyundai is making profits by making India as small car hubs, and no company will let go the profits atleast during this low sale periods (as claimed by companies)

You are in anticipation of Tata A$$ might improve. Its not over night they can change. Though Tata wishes to change, to change the dealers attitude is not easy. Unless until they appoint all new dealers and scrap of old dealers. Why for the sake of Anticipation, forgo your peace of mind.

Just saw your occupation, I guess you would not even have time to run behind the service guys.

Think Again!

PS: All information quoted here are personal thoughts

Last edited by deepakchiniwal : 2nd August 2009 at 23:35. Reason: Saw the Occupation
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Old 3rd August 2009, 00:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post

If you have not taken the delivery or the vehicle is not registered yet, I suggest stay away!

I personally having owned a Tata (sold off), there is very little resale value for Tata Petrol Cars. Any cabbie would pick up the diesel, but not a petrol. I had intention of having the Tata car for a long term, but eventually sold it in 2.5 years at 40% the price with no accidents on the car and only 15k Kms done.
First, I am also a Xeta owner for the last 2 years and has clocked 20K KM till date. There is absolutely no issue in my ownership experience. So, Mr Deepak, how can you make such blanket statement? Btw, I am getting FE of 14-16 constantly in Hyd traffic with 30% AC.

Second, he is not planning to trade his car in the near future, so why should he care about the resale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post

Like greenhorn said, you will get to know better once you have the vehicle.
He is also no CNG expert either. Sounds like, he has not owned any CNG car before. I would not count his opinion on any CNG conversion issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakchiniwal View Post
Exterior Looks are only till the time you get in the vehicle. Once you are inside the car, its what you have inside the hood (read engine). If looks are your priority, there are beautiful cars in your budget. If you looking for driving pleasure and owning experience stay away from Tata atleast the petrol cars.
Why are you so aggressive on him? Do you think everyone should settle for the rattle king Dzire - that ugly 4 wheeler - neither sedan not hatch (my brother owns a Ldi) . Beleive me, I yaked twice after seeing the picture posted by someone in teambhp who traded his tata vehicle for that ugly beige 4-wheeler.

Last edited by mohandas : 3rd August 2009 at 00:14.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 00:14   #8
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if you've driven the safire and found it adequately powered, then its okay, but most people found the 1.2 engine underpowered. so adding CNG to the mix will only make it worse.

reasons - well, most tata is mostly a diesel shop, and so are the mechs. petrols show up rarely, and they cant fix the issues with existing fiats , so i doubt they have sufficient expertise in the engine itself, when running it in stock form. the moment you convert it to cng/lpg, all bets are off, and the mechs now have no idea what to do. they'll probably blame it on the guys who did the conversion, and they will blame it on the TASC, and you'll be stuck with nowhere to go. if you want CNG/LPG on a tata car, get one which comes factory fitted with it.

yes, tata service is improving, but at a very glacial pace, and now with the nano coming, everything is on the backburner, and I'm afraid that things might get worse.


let tme try to list out the negatives of a petrol tata vehicle
1. bad , BAD resale, especially a hatch.
2. poor FE
3. tata/roadside mechs not used to these engines ( TDI engine is everywhere)
4. poor performance
5. engine specific parts are usually not stocked in the same scale as diesel ones, so replacements will take longer.

dont buy the diesels just from the cost benefit perspective. but it because you'll be getting a better performing, economic engine which can be serviced more easily, and by more experienced mechs. diesels are tata's core competency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
First, I am also a Xeta owner for the last 2 years and has clocked 20K KM till date. There is absolutely no issue in my ownership experience. So, Mr Deepak, how can you make such blanket statement? Btw, I am getting FE of 14-16 constantly in Hyd traffic with 30% AC.
I've got a friend who has a Xeta GLS, and he gets 10 in the city and 12~13 on the highway. He has sold his car. He was just posting his experience. I'd say he's far better qualified to comment on their prices. Have you ever tried selling your car?
Quote:
Second, he is not planning to trade his car in the near future, so why should he care about the resale.
neither did deepak, but if fate decides otherwise, you'll find yourself losing a lot more money. Just the other day there was someone posting on the indica user group about selling his Xeta. The poor soul had been laid off, and needed to sell his few month old xeta badly. He would be losing a huge amount, so none of us said anything about the price. Like they say, Man proposes, God disposes
Quote:
He is also no CNG expert either. Sounds like, he has not owned any CNG car before. I would not count his opinion on any CNG conversion issue.
Nope, I'm no expert on CNG. The information on CNG indica's are here on this very forum. I don't want to learn things the hard way, and would rather avoid it if the option exists. And you ?

Last edited by greenhorn : 3rd August 2009 at 00:31.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 00:20   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
let tme try to list out the negatives of a petrol tata vehicle
1. bad , BAD resale, especially a hatch.
This is not a issue for you, Smartrisk. Since you are not selling your car in the near future.
2. poor FE
This is not true for Xeta atleast.
3. tata/roadside mechs not used to these engines ( TDI engine is everywhere)
This is not true in hyderabad
4. poor performance
This is ALSO not true for Xeta atleast.
5. engine specific parts are usually not stocked in the same scale as diesel ones, so replacements will take longer.
This is absolutely wrong
My comments are in bold.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 00:39   #10
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Quote:
My comments are in bold.
response about 1 & 2 - already posted above
3 - smartrisk isnt in hyd , is he ?
4. okay, poor might be too strong a word. xeta's are well powered, but the punto 1.2 itself is being called underpowered, so imagine a less powerful 1.2 fiat engine...
5- its a fiat engine. You can read about the problems fiat owners have been having with non routine maintenance parts availability. Its a lot worse than the case with xetas
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Old 3rd August 2009, 02:58   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
First, I am also a Xeta owner for the last 2 years and has clocked 20K KM till date. There is absolutely no issue in my ownership experience. So, Mr Deepak, how can you make such blanket statement? Btw, I am getting FE of 14-16 constantly in Hyd traffic with 30% AC.
Mr. Mohandas, please read my post carefully. I have mentioned these are my personal thoughts. So if you are hurt I cant help you.

Tata themselves claim a mileage of 14 Kmpl under test conditions and you are getting 14-16 kmpl. That in itself shows you are bluffing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Second, he is not planning to trade his car in the near future, so why should he care about the resale.
No person is happy with one vehicle. Having driven in USA he himself will feel the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
He is also no CNG expert either. Sounds like, he has not owned any CNG car before. I would not count his opinion on any CNG conversion issue.
I guess greenhorn has replied to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Why are you so aggressive on him? Do you think everyone should settle for the rattle king Dzire - that ugly 4 wheeler - neither sedan not hatch (my brother owns a Ldi) . Beleive me, I yaked twice after seeing the picture posted by someone in teambhp who traded his tata vehicle for that ugly beige 4-wheeler.
I know how beautiful the Indica is dear mr. mohandas. I can yak too, but wont. I guess people are jealous of it . Thats the difference. Your so called rattle king has a engine which is one of the best. Rattles can be fixed, engines cant be changed I am repeating myself.

My Observations
someone staying in mumbai cannot call for road service from Hyderabad.
Sluggish performance. Turn on the AC to feel the difference. Try to turn the vehicle from standstill and you'll feel the ambasador of 1980's was comfortable.
Engine parts not readily available. I had to leave my car for 10 working days to fix a electrical problem. Service advisor to mechanics have cursed the petrol engines.

@smart if you want a real feedback about the XETA, step into a TATA authorized service center and ask for feedback. You will get the information from the horse's mouth.

Mr. Mohandas, I am posting my opinions, you post yours. Its upto the buyer to buy it. Aright, so before taking something personal on anyone mind yourself.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 03:27   #12
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Just to add up
on FE, a carwale link was posted @ http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1411032 (What is your Actual Fuel Efficiency?)

as per that, mileage is 11.9 kmpl Tata Indica V2 Xeta 1.2 GLS - BS III Details - CarWale.com

on problems with XETA, who better than you Mr. Mohandas
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1380215

Check that out.

Your so called ugly car, are you planning to purchase the petrol one and ready to buy the new K Series engine. Your purchase intention
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1133476 (Indian Car Sales Figures and Analysis)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1384537


You are still looking to buy the k series engine of MUL, and look at what you say
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1410016 (What is your Actual Fuel Efficiency?)

God help
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Old 3rd August 2009, 08:29   #13
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guys! lets not get personal. everyone is entitled to his opinion.. the main thing here is to help Smartrisk in arriving at a sensible purchase decision.

i have to agree with the low resale of TATA petrol vehicles. for that matter any petrol vehicle which has a diesel sibling commands a lesser resale than the diesel sibling. one maybe due to the initial price difference between petrol and diesels (1-2lakhs) and secondly diesels would find favour with fleet operators who may pick up the used diesel car unlike the used petrol which has to be picked up only by private buyers looking for a used vehicle.

now coming to Smartrisk i guess you should chuck the idea of Going in for a petrol tata. always stick to the core-competancy of the Manufacturer. TATA = Diesel just like maruti = Petrol. (the diesels in maruti are powered by the fiat engines) i wouldnt recommend the petrol swift or the petrol Punto either. petrol swifts though sell well are due for a heart transplant and the current 1.3's dont command a good resale normally since the diesel siblings are demanded more. look out for a diesel tata either a TDI or a Quadrajet. avoid the Turbo as ive heard it has a few issues or diesel Punto (active or dynamic) which should be a tight fit into your budget.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 10:04   #14
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sunilrj, which car do you mean by the turbo?
If you mean the first generation indica, its the same as the indigo/vista TDI engine
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Old 3rd August 2009, 11:18   #15
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@smartrisk congrats on your new car. (If at all you have decided not to pull out).
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