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Old 6th October 2009, 19:10   #76
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I test drove the Jazz and the City back to back a couple of days ago and if you ignore the feel good factor of owning a sedan and the extra power of the 1.5, I am willing to bet that the Jazz makes a better buy than the City. If most of your driving is in the city, the Jazz is the car to have. It is pretty decent on the highway too if you are not a person to outgun every car ahead of you. And did you know that the coolant does not need to be changed for 1 lac kms? And that it has extra durable wiper blades?

Both the cars are great cars and after doing a deeper study have come to the conclusion that Honda cars, though pricey, come up trumps in terms of overall value proposition. They are difficult to fault as a package. I fully subscribe to GTO's backing of Honda which would not have been the case a week ago.
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Old 6th October 2009, 20:55   #77
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...I also had SX4 zxi in mind. Both had similar on-road price in Delhi. After carefully looking at what each car was offering me, I decided that Jazz was giving me better return for my money. So in that sense, SX4 is more overpriced for me. Of course that is purely my opinion. Jazz sales figures show that the common perception is different.
Fully subscribe to akp. Even I found Xylo (my first choice) to be overpriced after looking at Jazz, but no one talks about that because it is visibly a bigger vehicle. But it is just a bigger vehicle and thats it. Poor plastics, poor finish, no airbags, no ABS (for similar price),flimsy doors, overall quality control etc.. and top it up with a 'new unproven vehicle' tag. Not saying that Honda is not overpriced, Just that look around there are more overpriced ones. 'Apni akal lagao, public ki baaton pe mat jao.'

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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
I test drove the Jazz and the City back to back a couple of days ago and if you ignore the feel good factor of owning a sedan and the extra power of the 1.5, I am willing to bet that the Jazz makes a better buy than the City. If most of your driving is in the city, the Jazz is the car to have.
Personal perceptions (as always). I saw and TD'ed Jazz first and then ANHC, the first thing sitting in the ANHC was, why is it so claustrophobic? Actually that was the Jazz effect. The openness that Jazz offers, is perhaps not there in any other car. Space utilisation etc were some other factors for which I finally went in for a Jazz instead of ANHC.

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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
And did you know that the coolant does not need to be changed for 1 lac kms?
A litttle correction here, it is 2 lac kms or 120 months 'whichever earlier'. After that every 1 lac kms.

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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
And that it has extra durable wiper blades?
..And Iridium Spark Plugs that need replacement after 1 lac Kms..
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Old 16th November 2009, 18:56   #78
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Default Small update on FE

The car has completed 5300 km now. The following are the FE figures so far.

In city driving, so far I have got the following figures, arranged chronologically and omitting the cases where any highway driving was involved:

10.8
11.7
10.8
12.1
12.4
13.1
14.1
13.2
13.0
12.4
12.8
13.1


Now about highway driving.

We are just back from a trip to Chail. From Ambala, you take NH22 and proceed towards Shimla, and take a right turn at a place called Kandaghat few kilometers before Shimla. NH22, even though it has lots of twists and turns as any mountain roads have, is a wide two-lane road which is quite comfortable to drive on. The road from Kandaghat to Chail is substantially narrower, and in parts steeper, consists of two distinct parts -- first 12 km till a place called Sadhupul is descent, and next 17 km from there till you reach Chail, is ascent.

Here is the FE we got during our trip.

We started on full tank from Delhi. Filled petrol just before hitting the hills in Kalka. Then on our way back after clearing Zirakpur and little before Ambala. And finally on reaching Delhi.

In the plains, (Delhi-Kalka onward and Ambala-Delhi return), we got an FE of 18.37 kmpl, over a total distance of 497 km, covered in 8.5 hours.

We drove in the range 80--100 mostly, occasionally hitting 110. And this was with three passengers, and boot full of luggage, and AC running 75% of the time.



Hill driving part included the onward drive from Kalka to Chail, then return from Chail to Ambala and local travel in Chail, which included for example, visiting a Kali Temple on top of a hill. This was a 10 minute climb, very steep, and narrow, just about enough width for an SUV, and part of it had broken surfaces where one had to be very careful (the car managed all these without any fuss).
For this part, we got an FE of 14.4 kmpl, over a total distance of 252 km (difficult to specify the duration in this case, as it involved lots of stoppages and local travel).

This was with three passengers again, but without AC on.

In the hills, we were a little extra careful. I drove the onward part in the hills and my wife drove the return part, and for both of us, this was our first experience in hill driving. So many a time on NH22, we were going slow in 2nd gear where one could have easily gone faster in gear 3 or perhaps even 4. So the hill region FE could have been even better.

All the FE figures here are based on full-tank-to-full-tank calculation. The tripmeter FE readings are usually a little higher, by about 1; so for example when my calculated FE is 13.1, the tripmeter FE reading would be 14.1 (it is not always exactly 1 though; it is an average figure, sometime it is a little lower, sometime a little higher than 1).
And the fuel I am now using is Indian Oil normal while in Delhi and XtraPremium when filling outside Delhi.
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Old 18th November 2009, 19:28   #79
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Thanks.
I have been using a similar cover in my Uno for close to 9 years now -- it just seems to suit my grip very well.



10 out of 1 !!
I actually did not get michelin, it is cpyder who got them. I got goodyear. No alloys for now.
1. I have got a cheap cover for my Jazz. Spent 100 bucks. It fits well and haven't had the problem of slipping.
2. I got MRF ZVTV. I HATE them. I have to play music even when I am in no mood to because the noise gets to me. I wish it were Michelin. When I got the car, there were no Michelin models available with the dealers. Shame!
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Old 19th November 2009, 11:45   #80
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The report is very crisp & clear. No doubt Jap machines are more reliable. Though we end-up paying more premium for the vehicle.

The eng bay is spic & span. maintain the same
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Old 19th January 2010, 13:39   #81
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AKP,

Appreciate if you can update your experience with JAZZ. Especialy with respect to the seating position, and how does it handle bad road ans humps with 4+1 people in it.

Thanks
VNK
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Old 19th January 2010, 15:17   #82
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sure thing. See, there are two types of premium petrols:

1. High octane premium petrol : Only some premium cars (example Superb 3.6, BMW 325i etc.) require higher octane fuel. Its pointless to fill this in everyday sedans & hatchbacks. No benefits.

2. Regular octane + additive premium petrol : Again, pointless for all cars as the petrol is of the same octane. Only difference is the additive (usually detergents). No real benefit (though there have been reports of some engines getting damaged due to the additives). Before a manufacture sells a car in India, it is sufficiently tuned to run on regular petrol.

Net net, pure regular petrol does the job just as well. The key is purity of fuel : Stick to company-owned company-operated pumps. They are genuine for the most part.
@GTO: Hyundai India does recommend putting what they call as Performance Enhancing Fuels PEFs.

Check out this link-
Hyundai Motor India - Official Site of Hyundai Car Products

QUOTE

Premium, Speed, these are some of the latest buzz words that car owners have been hearing about. Some vouch that they improve performance and fuel efficiency while others feel that they do not see any change. The attendant at the petrol pump recommends it strongly and you are perhaps too confused to make up your mind. In this edition, we bring you the facts about the new ‘PEFs’.

PEFs or Performance Enhancement Fuels are the new food for the vehicles on the roads. These fuels contain advanced additive systems that clean up intake and fuel systems, and keeps them operating at peak performance and efficiency as the fuel gets used by your car. It also provides one-tank cleanup of port fuel injectors.

The benefits:
  1. Maximising power output : With its advanced deposit control additive system, this fuel cleans fuel injectors, carburetors, additive system, fuel injectors, intake ports, and valves to restore maximum power output. They also help keep new engines clean to maintain engine power output.
  2. Better acceleration : PEFs remove deposits that can hurt acceleration performance. They have unparalleled 'intake valve cleanup and keep clean' performance. With cleaner valves, better acceleration is achieved.
  3. Better driveability and smoothness : Clean fuel injectors and intake valves ensure good throttle response and driveability. Tests show that PEFs provide smooth engine response.
  4. Maintaining fuel economy : Air intake and fuel delivery systems are maintained in 'as-designed' conditions, giving precise air/fuel mixture control for minimum fuel consumption
  5. Reducing exhaust emissions : The deposit control in this fuel helps maintain proper fuel/air mixture so that emission control systems operate properly to minimise hydrocarbon, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide exhaust emissions.
Why should you use PEFs ?

New generation cars like the Hyundai cars use the MPFI (Multi Point Fuel Injection) technology, where the fuel is injected into the engine through fine valves, for better fuel efficiency and emission control. Impurities found in normal fuels tend to clog these fine holes of fuel injectors thereby reducing the efficiency of the engine. They may sometimes even affect the catalytic converters, leading to increased emission. While the regular preventive maintenance of your Hyundai at authorised service centres will take care of problems like clogged valves and intakes, use of PEFs do help avoid the problem from building up in the first place.

Therefore, whether or not you feel a perceptible difference in the drive or fuel efficiency, tanking up on PEFs is a good idea. [/quote]
UNQUOTE

I have been using speed in my Santro for quite some time now. I do find the engine to be a tad smoother and have definitely observed better acceleration than regular petrol.

What is your take on the Hyundai recommendation?
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Old 19th January 2010, 22:02   #83
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AKP,

Appreciate if you can update your experience with JAZZ. Especialy with respect to the seating position, and how does it handle bad road ans humps with 4+1 people in it.

Thanks
VNK

It is now nearing 9000 km. I am planning to post an update in a few days, as soon as I have a little time.

About seating position, I have seen a couple of owners complain of back pains; but I have not had any problem whatsoever in that regard till now, and I have been in the driver's seat for fairly long durations, the last one being 13 hours with a one hour food break.
Back seats are a bit upright, compared to a typical sedan. Since I have not been on it since our test-drive, I should not comment on back-seat comfort. I have not had any complain so far from my daughter who is the prime user of the back seats. But again, she is too young to complain about such things.

About its behaviour on bad roads, suspensions are on the stiffer side, so if you are going slow on a bumpy road, you will feel the unevenness. But it gets better with increasing speed. So on the highways, it handles potholes etc very well, you barely feel them. The 15" wheelsize also helps.
As for humps, ground clearance is not one of its plus points. But one can manage with careful driving. So far in the first six months, it has taken 3 hits so far. But when the car was raised during servicing at the workshop, I didn't find any sign of the hits. The underbody is actually quite neatly designed, with vulnerable parts like the silencer pipe etc relatively well protected.
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Old 19th January 2010, 22:49   #84
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AKP,

I have asked similar question to sidindica who also has a JAZZ. First thing that I observed that the driving position is quite similar to a tall boy model. I had to bend my ankle a bit too much to properly place my feet on the break/accelerator and clutch pedal. For a prolonged drive in bumper to bumper city traffic it might cause some inconvenience to the calf muscles. I have similar problem with my Wagon-R.

I don't see such problem with say a ANHC. Your legs are comfortably stretched such that you don't have to bend your ankle so much to properly place the feet on the pedal.
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Old 20th January 2010, 17:24   #85
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Originally Posted by vnk77 View Post
AKP,
First thing that I observed that the driving position is quite similar to a tall boy model. I had to bend my ankle a bit too much to properly place my feet on the break/accelerator and clutch pedal. For a prolonged drive in bumper to bumper city traffic it might cause some inconvenience to the calf muscles. I have similar problem with my Wagon-R.

I don't see such problem with say a ANHC. Your legs are comfortably stretched such that you don't have to bend your ankle so much to properly place the feet on the pedal.
Well, till you mentioned, I had not even noticed it. But now, sitting in my other car Uno which has a low sitting position and in the Jazz, I can see that there is indeed a little difference. It is still not noticeable for the right leg, but for the left leg, which has to operate the clutch, there is a bit of difference. One can probably reduce it a little by pushing back the seat a bit. But again, as I said, I had not noticed this all this while, which means it has not caused me any inconvenience.
But such things are very individual specific. If you are looking at the car as a possible option, do take a test drive to check this (and other similar things) out yourself, because these characteristics won't change from day 1 to say 2/3/5 years down the line, and you will be the best judge of whether you will be comfortable in it. For other things like engine behaviour, FE, after sales, niggles, body rattle etc, where things can really change with time, you can look at feedback from the owners.
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Old 19th February 2010, 18:59   #86
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Default 10000 km update

It is now little over seven months, and the car has completed 10000 km. We are loving every moment in it. Here is a brief update:

Problems: So far, there has been none.

Inconvenience: One thing that comes to mind is the driver side A-pillar. The Jazz A-pillar is actually much better than say that of an SX4 or Innova.

Name:  APillar.jpg
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Still, one needs to be careful when there is a possibility of pedestrians or two wheelers coming on to your path from the right. If he comes at a certain angle and at a certain speed relative to yours, you may totally miss him if you are not careful.


What I particularly like: Huge glass area, ample headroom and legroom, very good music system with speed sensitive volume, electrical power steering which is again speed sensitive, silent cabin, big ORVM's, Fuel efficiency.

What I don't:
Ground clearance: It is an issue, but one can manage by being a little careful. So far I have taken about 3 hits, but those were all on really bad roads, two in MP near Datia and one somewhere near Nasirabad in Rajasthan. The last one was a particularly nasty and I believe illegal speedbreaker put up by the locals made nastier by heavy trucks (elevation on two sides, where the wheels pass through, less than elevation in the middle). This one would hit any other car, unless you go at an angle. But thankfully the underbody is rather nicely packaged, and none of the hits have affected any of the vulnerable parts. In fact when I checked the underbody when they lifted the car during the last service, and I could not find any trace of the hits.

What else - well, let me think. Ok, high cost of spares should I need any.

But none of these are things that I didn't know at the time of buying, so no complaints.


Highway Trips: We have done a total of five highway trips so far in the car -- the longest was a 2000 km trip to Rajasthan. The rest were three day trips, of length 600 km to 1000 km, to places in Punjab, Himachal, MP and Rajasthan. The road surfaces varied from among the finest that India has to the worst that a non SUV can possibly handle. The longest drive in a single day has been 600 km. The car has been extremely comfortable, and the engine has performed superbly, have not felt any lack of power at any stage, while overtaking or otherwise, at the speeds I have driven (mostly 80-120, occasionally, very occasionally going upto 140).

Engine: As it has put in more and more kilometers behind it, the engine has gradually felt more and more smooth. I particularly felt a distinct change somewhere between the second and third service, at around 5/6 thousand km mark. Lack of torque at low rpm is less pronounced now than in the initial stages.

In the initial stages, I was upshifting at well over 2000 rpm, closer to 2500 rpm. So for example, I would go to gear 3 at 35/40 kmph, to gear 4 at around 50 kmph, to gear 5 at about 65/70 kmph. This is higher than I normally do with my other car. Gradually I have started upshifting earlier, at around the 2000 rpm mark, and the engine now seems to be doing fine.



Tyres: I got Goodyear as stock. Many of you here suggested changing to Michelin. But by that time, the car had run a fair bit - would have lost quite a bit of money if I switched. So decided against changing. So far I am reasonably happy with the Goodyears. They are noisy at high speeds. But apart from that I haven't had any reason to complain. What I like best is the steering feedback. I have recently changed the tyres of my older car, which does not have power steering, to Michelin, and observed how light the steering has become as a result. This together with GTO's remark in his Jazz review that steering feels lifeless at high speeds lead me to believe that if I switch to Michelin, it might become too light. Will probably think of changing only when the present set complete their lifetime. But not before I find out from other Jazz owners with Michelin how does the steering behave.



Service: I have got all the services done at Automax Honda in Mayapuri. And the experience so far has been good. Between the second and the third services, before I was to go for a eight day trip, took the car for a precautionary underbody check and also for a faint noise that I could hear only if I drove slowly with window glass rolled down and next to a wall. This turned out to be from right side rear wheel cap. The underbody check was done for free and immediately.
The thing that I like best about this place is that they allow me to be there with the car when it is being attended to.

Last of the three free services done in January, at around 8400 km mark. Switched to synthetic (grade 0W30; the earlier one, mineral oil, was 10W30) along with a change in oil filter. The service advisor confirmed that if I put synthetic, I do not need to change at 5000 km. So I will probably change it every six months, which should be around 7000/8000 km for me.



FE: (all the FE figures are based on full tank to full tank computation)
The FE figures have been steadily going up. In the city it was around 11 in the beginning. Now it is hovering around 15.2 to 15.5. This change is not all due to the engine getting smoother, though. Two other things have contributed also. In the initial days, my daily drive consisted of several signals, traffic snarls etc due to construction of flyovers on the outer ring road in South Delhi. Now those flyovers have been completed, so the traffic movement has become relatively smoother. Also, in the initial period, it was peak summer and AC usage was very high, 100% to be precise. In December and early January, AC usage became practically nill. Now I have started using it sparingly (about 25% of the time) again.

Highway FE has varied quite a bit depending on the driving conditions.
Instead of giving you just some numbers, let me give you the break up of FE during a recent trip, with a brief description of the driving conditions, so that you have a better idea.


I. Delhi-Jaipur Bypass:
distance: 222 km
FE: 21.08 kmpl

Road surface very good.
AC not used.
drove mostly at 80-90.
average speed for the entire distance was 60 kmph.


2. Jaipur Bypass - Bikaner:
distance : 379 km
FE: 17.71 kmpl

Includes local travel in Bikaner.
Distance till Bikaner was 330 km.
AC was used.
Road was mostly very good, drove at 80-120.
Average speed for the entire distance was a little over 60.


3. Bikaner - Jaisalmer:
distance: 438 km
FE: 16.28 kmpl

Bikaner-jaisalmer distance is about 335 km, rest was local travel.
AC was used.
Roads were very good for the Bikaner-Jaisalmer drive. Drove at 100-120 mostly.
average speed for the Bikaner-Jaisalmer part was 78 kmph.


4. Jaisalmer - Jodhpur:
distance: 338 km
FE: 15.81 kmpl

Jaisalmer-Jodhpur distance was 285 km.
Rest local travel, including on village roads.
AC used part of the time.
For the Jaisalmer-Jodhpur part, drove at 100-120.
average speed was 83 kmph.


5. Jodhpur - Jaipur bypass:
distance: 375 km
FE: 16.23 kmpl

The entire distance was highway, but there were a few bad and conjested stretches.
AC was used.


6. Jaipur bypass - Delhi:
distance: 222 km
FE: 19.32 kmpl

AC not used.
First 100 km, average speed was 60;
the next 120 km was in heavy fog. Average for this part was 40 kmph.
And we were stuck in a big jam in Behror for 35 minutes.


What is in many ways a more important figure is the overall cumulative FE. It takes care of variations over different seasons, driving conditions etc., which tend to cancel each other out to an extent. The overall cumulative FE so far stands at 14.69.




I am attaching a pdf file containing all the fuel usage information and FE figures together with service history of the car so far.

JazzHistory.pdf

The following points pertain to this pdf file:
  • First time I did a full tank was at odo reading of 74. The cumulative FE figures are that point onwards.
  • In the trip FE column, the cells with a bluish background are the ones where some highway driving was involved.
  • Trip lengths till the last month were all rounded off to the nearest integer before I noted them down.
  • The difference odoFE - actual FE is usually small whenever petrol has been filled on shortly after (same day/next day) the previous fill. This means engine has been turned on/off lesser number of times. This is where I feel the computer makes some error in computing FE. So the smaller this number, smaller is the difference with actual FE.
  • In one case where this difference is negative is very puzzling. The explanation there according to me is this. The real `actual FE' there should probably be something like 20. Which means fuel amount till autocut should have been 11.1 instead of 10.53. But this is just a small amount, and could be due to the two fuel dispensers cutting off at different points.
I can not think of any other point at the moment. Would be happy to answer if anyone has any specific question.
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Old 20th February 2010, 15:58   #87
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Thanks a lot for a very detailed follow up posts to your initial review. I am regularly following your thread and your observations and comments will certainly help me in making my decision on my next buy.
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Old 20th February 2010, 18:28   #88
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Wow what a report!Thank you for the effort. Jazz is an amazing car.How did you manage to accumulate and analyze all the data!

Which fuel did you use ?Extra premium.
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Old 20th February 2010, 19:44   #89
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Thanks a lot for a very detailed follow up posts to your initial review. I am regularly following your thread and your observations and comments will certainly help me in making my decision on my next buy.
Thanks, rutvij. This is my modest attempt to give something back to tbhp from where I get to know so much about so many things automotive. I would be very happy indeed if anyone finds it useful.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
Wow what a report!Thank you for the effort. Jazz is an amazing car.How did you manage to accumulate and analyze all the data!

Which fuel did you use ?Extra premium.
Thank you, Mevtec.
Every time I fill fuel, I reset the tripmeter. And I carry a small logbook in my car. While waiting for the petrol pump attendant to bring me change or credit card pay slip, I note down those readings. Later I note them down in a google spreadsheet.

All the fuel info is there in the pdf file. Initially I was using IO Xtra premium (IOXP). Now I have switched to normal. But when I go out of Delhi, I look for the premium version, be it IO, HP or BP.
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Old 26th March 2010, 23:48   #90
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hey AKP,

Mann, such a detailed review of the Jazz and you keep posting regularly, doesnt get sweeter than this. Cant thank you enough on this too Its been such a pleasure reading everyday.

wanted to ask you...did you change over to mobil1 or a honda fully synthetic oil?? Doesnt using any oil apart from Hondas void the warranty( or not?)? please clear me on this..

cheers!
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