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Old 18th September 2009, 02:15   #1
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Default Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)

Dear friends I have benefited a lot from Team BHP.I hope this thread will be useful to the visitors and members of this website.

Please dont be biased by my user name. I am not a Honda fan boy or TATA/FIAT basher.

Previous Experiences on cars

Since most our decisions are based on our previous experiences I think car buying decisions is influenced by past experiences.

I am a car fan since childhood. Since my father was abroad 25 years back I was able to see a variety of cars. There we had some modest Toyotas. I have only sat in them

Had a 1987 Amby – did 90,000 km and sold in 2004

TATA Indica 1999,Pre V2.Sold in 2009 at 73,000 km

NHC GXi 2004

Swift VDi 2008 ( 13000 km)

Also uses in law’s Swift VDi 2007 ( 14,400)

Brought ANHC SMT 2009 ( March)

Budjet
Started at 7 – 8 lakhs.

Priorities
I drive about 50 km per day in MC road ( Direction - Pattom to Vembayam……), Kerala .It is full of bends and initial 15 km lacks overtaking opportunities .After 8.00 am the traffic is dense. And the road is infested with KSRTC buses, fast drivers and boy racers. I often wondered if these drivers were in F 1 we would have won a number of titles.

Whenever I was driving my Indica (1999 Pre V2). I struggled a lot due to lack of power. Overtaking was like playing a game of Poker.

1, Safety
2, Comfort – I have a lumbar strain problem
3, Performance – having good performance is also safety feature.
4, Reliability – the car has to be kept for at least 7 years if possible.
5, Good service network
6, Fuel efficiency





Cars considered and Test Driven

Research started one year back when Indica started to show age related problems

1, Xylo – this was the car I fell in love on my first drive!

I haven’t driven an SUV before. The sales rep told me “Sir after owning a SUV you will not like cars”! I partially agree with his view. The SUV was easy to drive despite the size. The feature I liked the most was the driver’s seat and the space.

But the dealers in TVM were not interested to give me a test drive in the highways! I have a little motion sickness so I wanted to know about the body roll and highway manners. My brother took a test drive in coimbatore. He was not impressed with Xylo’s highway manners at high speed.
I didn’t want to take a risk. Also the car lacked safety features ABS and Airbags in March 09 so decided against it.

2, Swift DZire Zdi
The car was on the top of my list initially. Plus points were value for money, fuel efficiency and performance. But things changed after we brought a Swift Vdi in 2008. The car was a beautiful white VDi. Fuel efficiency is very good. It was fun to feel the torque as the turbo kicks in.

The rattles started with less than 100 km on the odometer! Maruthi service near our home was interested only in getting the customer satisfaction card filled promptly. They don’t even bother to wash the car for free services.

After a few long drives it was evident that the level of comfort offered by Swift was significantly less than our NHC (2004).The NHC’s power delivery was smooth, linear and NVH was far better than the new Vdi. Back seat comfort of Vdi was disappointing. The rattles has been solved now by repeated efforts and a good ICE.

My father in law's carefully driven Swift Vdi 2007 (14,400 km) has a difficulty in engaging the reverse gear. Showed the problem to Maruthi’s Authorized Service centre But they are saying that "Sir this problem is there for almost all Swifts, so live with it since it is not a major problem!".

I know its stupid to compare a 5.5 L Swift to a NHC which costs 7.25 L.The Swift is really VFM and excels in a lot departments. But you know that DZire is derived from Swift without much modifications or research. What Maruthi did was to fit a poorly designed tin boot to a beautiful hatch..The interiors are still the same. I believe DZire doesn’t fully qualify as a sedan. Even the Indigo was modified significantly to improve the rear seat comfort.

I travelled in my friends DZire Zdi few times and found that NVH appears to be better than the Swift hatch. Otherwise the car felt same as the hatch. The ICE provided in Zdi was also disappointing. Still the DZire was VFM.I had significant interest in the car considering its fuel efficiency. But none at home was interested; they were of the opinion that after using NHC DZire is not that desirable.

3,Verna CRDi
I took my close friend’s CRDi for a spin.The car was great on the highways. The power is addictive. But I did not like the rear seat comfort of the Verna.
I also did not like the Verna’s exterior design



4, INNOVA (G or V)
My father was more interested in Innova.But we go for long trips only once a year so there was no point in going for it. After reading the excellent review by SPS I decided to test drive it.

The car was easy to drive.Interior quality was excellent.But I felt the suspension to be stiff. The sales rep explained to me that it was because test drive car’s tyre pressure was not correct. I was bit surprised, a senior sales person told me that Innova’s ride improves when it is loaded.

Since I mostly ride alone Innova didn’t seem to be ideal to me. The performance also didn’t impress me.The fully loaded “V” with ABS and AIRBAG costs above 12 lakh.Compared to that I felt the ANHC SM- T was VFM.


5, All New Honda City
Even at the first test drive it was evident that this car had all the plus points of the NHC,except the diesel engine like torque at lower rpm.Test driven four times in a span of 3 months. The dealership experience at Peninsular Honda Trivandrum was excellent. Twice they brought the car to the place I was staying. The lane towards my house in TVM is narrow .So I had to modify the gate.

Repaired left side rear view mirror of our NHC which broke off when a ?coconut fell on it, free of cost at the dealership.


Took the test drive of the Civic too. Surprising fact was that the car had more similarities to Civic than NHC! The engine was very refined, the car accelerated like a racing car after 3000 rpm with a sporty engine note.

The car is superior to NHC in
Engine – marked difference in highways
Good visibility - blind spots are less
Better Suspension
Better styling – NHC looks were not good
Handling has improved a lot
Very good ICE – ( Our NHC GXi had only a cassette player )!
Safety – ABS and Airbag standard

Interior quality of the ANHC is not inferior to NHC. Since we have both the cars now it is evident that ANHC interior looks dull compared to NHC.But I feel the quality is good.

I was a bit worried about the fuel efficiency .

We have to appreciate Honda for improving Honda city a lot. Now it has more in common with the Civic than NHC.Maruthi would have only changed some lights for the next 15 years if they had a product like NHC.






Did not consider
TATA – based on previous experiences

LINEA – VFM, but has to prove itself. May be considered next time

FORD and GM cars – Has good cars with long warranty and discounts. But was not sure whether the parent company will last till the extended warranty period of the products. Happy to see they are better off now.


SX4 – Despite being huge, poor interior design has led to lack of interior space and a middle seat with a bulge in the centre.



"After experiencing the iVTEC in ANHC and CIVIC, I felt as the one who uses Gillette Sensor Excel regularly, every other blade seemed to be inferior (Except for MACH 3)"



Confusion prevailed
Short listed DZire Zdi and ANHC S-MT
Price difference on road (March 2009) 9.0 - 7.34 = about 1.6 Lakh

Running cost

DZire at 18 km/l .Cost Per km = 37/18 = 2 per km

ANHC predicted on 80% highway use – 13 km/l = 49/13 = approx 3.75

Difference – about 1.75 rupees per km

Since I was to run a maximum of 1500 km per month – ANHC would lead to additional 2600 rupees per month.

Difference in EMI

ANHC costs 1.6 L more

I decided to take a loan from SBI at 10% interest first year
Planned loan Tenure – 48 months

Down payment 4 lakh

EMI for ANHC (5 lakh)= 12681
EMI for DZire Zdi (3.34 lakh) = 8471

Difference in EMI – 4210


Concluded that – if I can pay about 4200 rupees more in EMI, I can own my dream car rather than DZire.


When I was thinking about it I found in Team BHP that the price of ANHC is going to rise in April 2009.So I was forced to take a decision.Thank you guys.

Light at the end of the tunnel
By Gods grace by that time I got a better job with a raise. And my father also was in favour of ANHC rather than buying a fuel efficient diesel. Was worried about ANHC’s fuel efficiency but I decided to take the risk.


Peninsular Honda Trivandrum made sure that I got the car before the price rise. They also made sure that I got the car with Michelin. Less than one in 7 cars come with Michelin .I had to wait for another truck to get a car with Michelin.

Got the car on March 28,2009.The delivery of the car was prompt.
All documents were ready.
Gave a present to the Sales rep,a Team BHP influence.

Fitted reverse sensor ,seat cover, Body coloured mud flaps and a Roots vibrosonic horn.

Got floor mats, perfume, chocholates and Car Cover free!


Is the ANHC Value for Money - No alloys, Fog lamp ,Climate Control,CD player….

Dear friends I feel it depends on what you value more. If you value comfort, safety,performance,peace of mind more than money its worth it.Even now.


No alloys, Fog lamp, Spoiler.. -The car looks great even without these. What is the use of getting all these free in an ugly car?

No CD player ! – all of my song collections are in MP3.So made separate music folders for me.wife, mother and kid in a 4 GB USB.No more CD’s littering my car.The Head unit plays MP3 without any loss of quality unlike the Pio 3050 I had in Indica.Sound quality is very good


Climate Control – I feel it should have been included at least in the “V” model.

But I rely on the world’s most sophisticated sensor and computer to set the comfortable temperature.

I have found that ACC on full auto mode in my friend’s Swift Zxi automatically goes into fresh air mode taking air from outside, which is an absolute no for an Atopic (allergic) individual like me.




Last but not the least reason to buy a petrol car
As a Respiratory specialist I have come across several articles on the harmful effects of that diesel exhaust particles (DEP).It can trigger several allergic diseases in an allergic individual like me.(My wife is not conviced)

Health effects of diesel exhaust emissions -- Sydbom et al. 17 (4): 733 -- European Respiratory Journal

Please don’t bash me if you feel I am biased. I am not going to inherit any money from Honda.

Shall continue to write a honest the ownership report.
Attached Thumbnails
Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-abi-swift-2.jpg  

Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-img_0957.jpg  

Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-anhc-33.jpg  

Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-anhc-4.jpg  

Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-anhc-1.jpg  

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Old 18th September 2009, 05:05   #2
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Great! Honest report written straight from the heart! Congratulations and best wishes for your new cars and stay at T-BHP
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Old 18th September 2009, 07:31   #3
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Absolute pleasure reading your report. What a report to start the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
Please dont be biased by my user name. I am not a Honda fan boy or TATA/FIAT basher.
He he yeah sure mate

Quote:
They don’t even bother to wash the car for free services.
I don't think this is true in Bangy atleast. Washing is the best they can manage if not all the things in the job card.
Quote:
The rattles has been solved now by repeated efforts and a good ICE.
Waahahahhahah!! lol.
Quote:
Showed the problem to Maruthi’s Authorized Service centre But they are saying that "Sir this problem is there for almost all Swifts, so live with it since it is not a major problem!".
2 wrongs don't make a right, fix it you jokers out there.
Quote:
DZire is derived from Swift without much modifications or research. What Maruthi did was to fit a poorly designed tin boot to a beautiful hatch..The interiors are still the same. I believe DZire doesn’t fully qualify as a sedan. Even the Indigo was modified significantly to improve the rear seat comfort.
Most of us will agree here.
Quote:
But none at home was interested; they were of the opinion that after using NHC DZire is not that desirable.
Sure Ahem!
Quote:
3,Verna CRDi
I took my close friend’s CRDi for a spin.The car was great on the highways. The power is addictive. But I did not like the rear seat comfort of the Verna.
I also did not like the Verna’s exterior design
I am surprised. But then you are not me.


Quote:
Repaired left side rear view mirror of our NHC which broke off when a ?coconut fell on it, free of cost at the dealership.
Ahh! Thats what a good dealer does.

Quote:
FORD and GM cars – But was not sure whether the parent company will last till the extended warranty period of the products.



Quote:
Got the car on March 28,2009.The delivery of the car was prompt.
All documents were ready.
Gave a present to the Sales rep,a Team BHP influence.

Fitted reverse sensor ,seat cover, Body coloured mud flaps and a Roots vibrosonic horn.

Got floor mats, perfume, chocholates and Car Cover free!
Many Congratulations!
Quote:
Dear friends I feel it depends on what you value more. If you value comfort, safety,performance,peace of mind more than money its worth it.Even now.
Yes, I'm rubbing this in and getting the hang of it.
Quote:
Please don’t bash me if you feel I am biased. I am not going to inherit any money from Honda.
Sure mate. With 2 'H' badges in the garage, you are not helping your plea lol.
Quote:
Shall continue to write a honest the ownership report.

And we shall wait for it.

This is what I call a hassle free buy. I must say you are very lucky.
Congrats again & Drive safe.
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Old 18th September 2009, 12:16   #4
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Nice work and Congratulations Happy and Safe driving.

I personally dont like the rear end of the ANHC otherwise its a almost perfect machine.

NHC 2008 is lot better and looks great.
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Old 18th September 2009, 12:30   #5
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The ANHC has been named more than often on the most over-rated cars thread. The fact that it is a little more expensive than competition is probably the reason that it has landed there.

But, if someone can afford the slightly expensive price tag, there is nothing that offers the balance of good power, space, safety-features, decent FE and ownership experience that the ANHC does.

Congratulations!
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Old 18th September 2009, 16:11   #6
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Great report. Congratulations on the new buy.
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Old 18th September 2009, 18:28   #7
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super report, congrats on the buy!
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Old 18th September 2009, 18:58   #8
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Very well written!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
No alloys, Fog lamp, Spoiler.. -The car looks great even without these. What is the use of getting all these free in an ugly car?
Good one. +10
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Old 18th September 2009, 19:01   #9
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Nice Honest Review there. I really love the ANHC, but no Vita M for that car.
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Old 18th September 2009, 21:45   #10
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Nice write up/review and research. You didnt check out the Linea? If you had, the would have completed the search.

You should have gone for alloys which the Honda deserves.
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Old 19th September 2009, 12:14   #11
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great car there. time to put some funky alloys and broad tires. i prefer Citys not being offered alloys and ice. we have much better options outside.
i think sensor excel beats mach3 in value for money department. i'm hardcore fan of Gillette sensor excel. also great to know the better ownership experience from Peninsular. They ought to read this thread.
i didn't quite understand the diesel particulate part. you will be inside the car. so how does it affect you?

Last edited by kutlee : 19th September 2009 at 12:17.
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Old 20th September 2009, 00:06   #12
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Hi thank you – pmbabu, Prince Pervez, hondafanboy, Su-47, ImmortalZ, raamki,
WhiteKnight, KRRaj, jkdas, kutlee and all those who have read the thread.


Quote:
KRRaj - but no Vita M for that car.
Your Zen will run upto 1 lakh.At that time there will be much better cars in the market. We can expect a good Toyota sedan too.

Quote:
Jkdas - You should have gone for alloys which the Honda deserves
But jk the purchase was 1 lakh over my initial budget .
Also decided not to spend anything concerned with the looks of the car – Austerity measure .

Quote:
Kutlee -- i didn't quite understand the diesel particulate part. you will be inside the car. so how does it affect you?
When we start the car in the shed with windows open or when we get out of the car soon after the car has been shut down, usually there will be some diesel smoke around. But it is very less with modern diesels which are well maintained. For an allergic individual even small amount of smoke can trigger diseases like asthma.
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Old 20th September 2009, 16:05   #13
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Default Fuel efficiency - initial impressions

Hi friends I have completed 7500 km in 6 months!

The initial fuel efficiency figures show that this car won't burn a hole in the pocket until petrol price is not more than 70 Rs/L.Hope by that time our salaries will also increase proportionally.



Fuel efficiency of my ANHC seems to be better than our NHC in highway.
It is amazing to find this powerful engine is more fuel efficient than some small cars.


Third free service done on 18th September,2009


First long drive

Before second service we went for the marriage of a classmate.
Trip with 5 people and luggage to a highrange.The car was great to drive. Return trip was tough due to heavy rain was stuck in third gear for a considerable time.
90% AC about 250km.Old friends had a habit of sitting inside the car with engine and AC on for 10 minutes when we had to halt for some reason. Did that twice. Wanted to tell them that mileage calculation for Team Bhp will be affected due to this.

Mileage calculated tankful to tankful (Extra Premium petrol) – 12.8km/l(Difference of 1.5 km/l in the trip computer – it showed 14.3 km/l)

After second service and oil change

Approximate 16km with AC in highway ( at speeds 70 - 100 km/hr) with 4 people.Trip computer – it showed 17.0 km/l)

Combined highway ( 70 %) and city ( 30%) 14 km/L.
I think 18 km/l is achievable on the highway if I am a bit more conservative.

Fuel efficiency depends on the rpm and the degree of throttle applied.(according to the instant mileage meter).So if you are in the correct gear and can use the throttle judiciously a lot of fuel can be saved.

Another thing I have noticed is that the rate of deceleration of ANHC is lower when you are off the accelerator compared to NHC at the same speed and conditions.So you can keep the foot off the gas for brief periods and gain more fuel efficiency.

Can anyone please explain this phenomenon?
Attached Thumbnails
Tale of Two City’s ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi)-fuel.jpg  

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Old 20th September 2009, 19:09   #14
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
Fuel efficiency of my ANHC seems to be better than our NHC in highway.
Interesting observation!

On 09/07/2008, over a trip from Alleppey to Trivandrum - Ponmudi and back (Kollam to Kollam, I had a friend), 26.88 litres of petrol took me 414kms giving an average of 15.40kpl with AC throughout.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...rivandrum.html (CVT trip to Ponmudi, near Trivandrum)
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Old 21st September 2009, 00:38   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
Fuel efficiency of my ANHC seems to be better than our NHC in highway.
It is amazing to find this powerful engine is more fuel efficient than some small cars.
Not surprising. NHC had much shorter gearing (to make up for less powerul engine?) which would make the engine buzzy on the highway with 100 kmph coming over 3000 rpm. In ANHC 100 kmph comes well under 2800 rpm.
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