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Old 23rd September 2009, 13:40   #16
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
I hope something can be done! My dad is already leaning away from the Cedia due to this crappy headrest.

My dad is tall. So, he needs a taller headrest. We have a Getz in which we face the same problem and my dad is always unhappy sitting in the back seat.

I've spoken to Mr. Narayan Iyer about it too. He said he will try to help me.

I see my hopes fading of getting the Cedia. Will be TDing it again today and will rip it as much as I can to make up for the loss!

Altis test drive today at 3:00pm.
Your dad's concern is valid. If he's a tall person, the rear headrest is an issue. I too pointed this out during my TD. I was told they didn't add an adjustable head rest because they thought it will affect the rear visibility.

The rear leg room is pretty good and if you slide down you might find a comfortable position. However, this is not really a good position to maintain in the long run - could be pretty bad for the back.

I've been exploring if someone can do an aftermarket job because otherwise this is a very good car. And Mitsu better do something about the rear seat - it's not too difficult to fix.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 16:45   #17
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Crap! Dad really liked the Altis. He found it more comfortable. I dont agree. I agree with Vidyuth. The rear headrest is exactly opposite to the one on the Cedia. It pushes your head forward which is not really comfortable.

Steering is too light and vague. It does weigh up at high speeds, but not enough. Suspension is bad at high speeds. No sense of stability. Do remember, I drove it back to back wit the Cedia, so my comparison is with one of the best driver's cars in the market today.

Of course, the Altis is hugely overpriced.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 17:14   #18
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I feel your heart is sold over Cedia.
Just need to agree your dad for the same
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Old 23rd September 2009, 17:30   #19
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I bought “Lancer” Cedia 18 months ago, I must agree that it’s a driver’s car. But I would advise you to keep the following in mind

Think about
  • Cedia’s torque at lower RPM is very poor meaning that in stop and go traffic you need to keep shifting between 1st & 2nd gear
  • Gear shift is not smooth (2nd gear engagement at times is not smooth, checked it on couple of cars)
  • For someone who is around 6 feet, rear seat comfort is subjective
  • When you run fan at speeds of 3 & 4 its noise is a bit more
  • Horn placement is extremely bad, will take time getting used to it
  • Is a petrol car (9-10 in city & 12-14 on high way)
Good
  • Turning radius & higher GC is a boon in city driving
  • Good stability on high ways
  • Sweet engine sound when the RPM is above 4500
  • You will feel your car is still the latest model (Lancer you buy today looks almost same to the one sold 10 years ago, very minor cosmetic changes)
  • Service stations are not over crowded. Most cases after a couple of visits they will recognize the owner and the car
  • And a lot more….
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Old 23rd September 2009, 20:17   #20
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Crap! Dad really liked the Altis. He found it more comfortable. I dont agree. I agree with Vidyuth. The rear headrest is exactly opposite to the one on the Cedia. It pushes your head forward which is not really comfortable.

Steering is too light and vague. It does weigh up at high speeds, but not enough. Suspension is bad at high speeds. No sense of stability. Do remember, I drove it back to back wit the Cedia, so my comparison is with one of the best driver's cars in the market today.

Of course, the Altis is hugely overpriced.
After reading ur earlier posts, I was sure that your dad will fall for the Altis. It is a reasonably good car with good back seat comfort, good city manners too. How was the drive and handling at normal speeds? I think it is very good.

I still feel it is VFM with all goodies, features & build quality. Well, you may have a different opinion.

I cant comment on Cedia, haven't driven it yet, but driven Lancer.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 23:08   #21
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@Nikhil: the moment I read your post in the morning I knew you would love the cedia, and the couple of hours later when you wrote that you will go for a TD of Altis I knew your dad will love it. Didnt get time to reply in the morning so I am replying now.

I bought a cedia about four months back and I am in love with it, really your love for it grows with time and you cant go to bed if you havent driven the car during the day, so I make sure I alteast drive it once a day to relax myself. I cant express it but its an addiction all cedia owners have I am sure. Once you are in the car the only thing you are bothered about is drive and nothing else.

Interiors are every one's personal opinion, I have had comments such as they are one of the best classic and simple interiors and comments like they are very dated, I love it any ways. More over, the new version which has climate control, momo steering, sports pedals, oZs and double din with sat nav etc etc is even better.

Rear seat comfort for a taller person is certainly an issue but my dad being just 5.7" doesnt have any problem with it. Horn switch on steering is ridiculously placed but one gets used to it after some time. I think on a momo steering it shouldnt be a problem.

Ride is bumpier than a civic or the altis at low speeds as in within city but thats again as you know is because of stiff suspention. I drove both civic and cedia back to back and thecedia just boosts your confidence as you increase the speed. The civic looses ground on bad roads at speed of about 80-100. On good roads I felt civic was almost as good to drive as cedia, though steering lacks a bit of feedback.

I still havent travelled in civic on highway so cant comment on it but definately have on cedia and man I had a ride of my life, even perfect isnt a right word, The ride quality is excellent.

Another thing which very few people may have highlighted is the built quality, this seriously is the best built japanese sedan sold in India. I can vouch for that.

Further, it may be a heavy weight and 0-100 may seem to take a while(less than 10 seconds, when I calcuated using a stop watch and 10.2 according to ACI) but as others mentioned its just that you dont feel it in this car being heavy, it masks it very well and as some one else said, the co-passengers feel secure. In the ANHC, 0-100 looks like 8 secs but it isnt really. I mean in my 800 if I am at 100 it looks like 180 on cedia but that really doent mean my 800 goes uptill 180, the max it does is 138 anyways.

Enought of cedia, I know its difficult to stop adoring her. I took a TD of altis about a month back and as soon as I sat in it, I was impressed by the electronics, the adjustable mirrors, be it any one, the seats, the CC, the music system and I knew thats one car my dad will love to own. I mean he has never driven more than 80 and I dont remember him even thinking of racing any one. If he drives, what he wants is a good ride and some classic interios and a reputed good car. Right! He is least bother if this car can corner better than a 800 or wagan R or an accent, forget about Cedia. And when Dad wants to be driven around, He would just love to sit back like a CEO of some company and read the news paper or something and when you are normally driven in City, Altis is any day less bumpier than cedia.

Think of it from Dad's point man. Dads would be least bothered about the steering, they anit no drifting man. They want as less engine noise as possible and the last thing they want is the creepy lady voice in the sat nav to suggest them to go left or right. Blue tooth is not their cup of tea any ways. Plus I dont remeber but most features are available in altis as well.

Lastly, and the most important, you are looking for a car costing between 13 to 30 lacs, so a person capable of spending 30 lacs must be really concerned about the brand value. Cedia, no matter how much good it is cannot not have the same brand value as that of altis. I mean although I bought mine 1.5year old for 5 lacs, people even suggested me to buy a new accent. I didnt have answer to that and was shocked. One can only laugh about it. Cedia is great car for an enthusiast and Altis is a great car for a common person. (I love cedia and respect all those who have bought it, I have one too).

So dads will always find altis better over cedia or even civic. I wont have any problem driving an altis..Just that I love driving a Cedia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Knight View Post
It's a real fast car. Get the car in dark metallic grey with black alloys or the white ( watch lancer evo topgear video; where it's pitted against a Lambo and you will get what I mean). In short an agile super sprinter.
Amen.. Why did you reminded me of that. Just a quote from Jemery "when you drive this thing really really hard, it just pre-defines what you think is physically possible, even when the grip runs out" Please dont watch this video before your going off for a ride, possibilities are you may try the same and land up crashing..lolzz."

Quote:
Originally Posted by visu03 View Post
I bought “Lancer” Cedia 18 months ago, I must agree that it’s a driver’s car. But I would advise you to keep the following in mind


Think about
  • Cedia’s torque at lower RPM is very poor meaning that in stop and go traffic you need to keep shifting between 1st & 2nd gear
Please excuse me but I dont agree with you here Sir. Cedia has got best torque in its segment and you can even pull it on a 2nd gear from stop and its no problem at all. Further the need to change gears is least compared to altis, civic, or the ANHC. the car even at 40 on 5th gear doest show need to switch to lower gear. Drve other cars and you will know that your ride is better.
  • Gear shift is not smooth (2nd gear engagement at times is not smooth, checked it on couple of cars)
Havent got any such problem, I have driven a TD vehicle, and 3 other cedias apart from mine and gear box is seriosly very sporty, every gear goes right into its slot. Its again the best in the segment. Also, I dont remember to have read any compain about the gear of cedias on TeamBhp either. All the owners are very satisfied with their cars and moreover thank god for the decision they made of buying it.
  • For someone who is around 6 feet, rear seat comfort is subjective
I agree to this, someone 6 feet tall may have problem on rear seat. Because even if you lie down a bit, first its not good for your back and secondly you then feel lack of thigh support.
The reason Cedia doesnt have rear head rests is because its a drivers car and the vision should be 360 degrees and rear head rests unfortunately may be a problem for a driver (remember great for enthusiast!).
  • When you run fan at speeds of 3 & 4 its noise is a bit more
The fan does make noise at 3 or 4 but then one driving cedia is least bothered about it but even if you are, then let me make sure that summers are extremely hot here in delhi and I just need to switch to 3 or 4 when I sit in the car in afternoon and the AC just cools in a jiffy and in not more than 10 mins in a temperature of about 45+, one feel the need to switch it back on 2. Moreover the new car has a Climate control, so be least bothered.
  • Horn placement is extremely bad, will take time getting used to it
Horn placement refered to above.
  • Is a petrol car (9-10 in city & 12-14 on high way)
What? do you expect better figures from Altis or a Civic. Forget it!. These figues are justified for a 2 litre engine and moreover good. An Atar with 1 litre engine gives about 18 in city and 20 on high way, this is bigger engine and bigger car mate! Thank Japanese that one get to see these figues with these engines, expect lower FE from a smaller or same sized engine from American or European OEMs.
Good
  • Turning radius & higher GC is a boon in city driving
The best in segment. Increadible is the word!
  • Good stability on high ways
Undoubtedly
  • Sweet engine sound when the RPM is above 4500
Right, wonder what a Mugen muffler will do.
  • You will feel your car is still the latest model (Lancer you buy today looks almost same to the one sold 10 years ago, very minor cosmetic changes)
Lancer I believe still looks better than any of its todays rival, just that it lacks safety features and isnt VFM.
  • Service stations are not over crowded. Most cases after a couple of visits they will recognize the owner and the car
Absolutely, I am impressed, I mean the way ou go to your local mechanic and tell him to sort the car very casually, the same way you can walk into a Mitsui service station, talk to advisor and get the job card done and then go the mechanic and in the same friendlyness as you would to yous local mechanic say, Yaar ye chl kar lena, Thats my issue.
Lastly, @nikhil Cedia is one car you should tamper with the least, after market support is very less and the company wont satisfy the modifying needs. Refrain from tampering with the headrests of cedia, may make things worse and you wont even get the factory finish.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 23rd September 2009 at 23:26.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 23:17   #22
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:( :( :( :(

My heart is broken. Dad hasnt made a decision yet. He says it is 51-49 in favour of the Altis. But I dont believe him.

See, there is nothing wrong with the Altis. In all probability, it will be perfect for a man whose rally genes have subsided(they have found their way into his two children). My dad had this to say about the Altis. I'm, of course, paraphrasing.

The Altis looks classier on the inside. The fake wood, the dashboard, everything screams class.(I have to agree except for the wood part. The interior of the Altis is much better. I also feel that the Cedia with all black interior doesnt look as good as the beige of the Altis and I'm pretty sure this light, airy feel is what has my dad thinking this way).

The comfort in Altis is much better than the Cedia. It is perfect. (Well, I didnt get this. The headrest in the Altis is uncomfortable as well. Apart from that, the rear seat is almost the same.)

The Altis will have a higher resale value which will make up for the almost 2 lakhs difference in price.

The Altis feels more comfortable to drive as well and even more so on the highway when cruising.


Back to my opinions now.

The Altis has a FANTASTIC engine. No question about that! Revs like a Honda Vtec which we are used to and sounds better than the Cedia's engine. The steering is a little vague for sure. Felt it even more when I switched to the Altis from the Cedia back to back. The suspension absorbs bad roads well, but feels a little bouncy and unsettled at really high speed. At the same speed, the Cedia felt superbly planted.

You can take turns in the Cedia single handed and with a huge amount of confidence at really high speeds. You can do the same in the Altis, but you need more courage. I guess if my dad does decide on the Altis, I will have to drive it with the same mentality as I drove the NHC Vtec. That was one bad handling car, but a little bit of courage and a lot of luck saw me through some high speed curves.

We did bottom out over one really big speedbreaker. 4 of us in the car and something hit the speedbreaker. Viddy is saying it might have been the mudflaps.

The low end torque in the Altis is pretty good. But somehow I feel the Cedia is better in stop-go conditions.

Anyway, had a long chat with Viddy and he's made me feel better. The Altis just makes too much sense to ignore. Damn Toyota for corrupting my dad with sense and logic and reason! Damn Mitsubishi for making a fantastic car which I cant buy right now!

Hopefully we'll be test driving the Cruze and the Civic next week. Let's see how that goes.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 23:42   #23
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
:( :( :( :(

My heart is broken. Dad hasnt made a decision yet. He says it is 51-49 in favour of the Altis. But I dont believe him.

See, there is nothing wrong with the Altis. In all probability, it will be perfect for a man whose rally genes have subsided(they have found their way into his two children). My dad had this to say about the Altis. I'm, of course, paraphrasing.
Cedia does make sense in your case, Dad a bigger enthusiast than Son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
The comfort in Altis is much better than the Cedia. It is perfect. (Well, I didnt get this. The headrest in the Altis is uncomfortable as well. Apart from that, the rear seat is almost the same.)
Dont know, but what I gather is that, in city driving, altis is less bumpier than Cedia. Rest, No car up to a 3 series I believe can handle better than cedia on bad roads (bad roads I insist again).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Anyway, had a long chat with Viddy and he's made me feel better. The Altis just makes too much sense to ignore. Damn Toyota for corrupting my dad with sense and logic and reason! Damn Mitsubishi for making a fantastic car which I cant buy right now!

Hopefully we'll be test driving the Cruze and the Civic next week. Let's see how that goes.
Damn both Mitsubishi and Toyota and wait for the i30.

Civic I believe will again loose on handling on bad roads, plus too low rear seats and low gound clearance, rest its an excellent car. Looks amazinf from bothe outside and inside, but is just too common in Delhi. Top end MT will again costs 3 lac more than cedia, difficult to justify the VFM factor.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 23rd September 2009 at 23:47.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 23:53   #24
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Nikhil, although I own a Cedia because I love it and know that it is better than the Altis however, I tend to agree that the later is a more practical choice.
Actually, it is akin to making a practical choice of buying a M800! People do ask me as to why I bought a Cedia? M800 se bhi to kaam chal sakta tha!
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Old 24th September 2009, 00:10   #25
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Enought of cedia, I know its difficult to stop adoring her. I took a TD of altis about a month back and as soon as I sat in it, I was impressed by the electronics, the adjustable mirrors, be it any one, the seats, the CC, the music system and I knew thats one car my dad will love to own. I mean he has never driven more than 80 and I dont remember him even thinking of racing any one. If he drives, what he wants is a good ride and some classic interios and a reputed good car. Right! He is least bother if this car can corner better than a 800 or wagan R or an accent, forget about Cedia. And when Dad wants to be driven around, He would just love to sit back like a CEO of some company and read the news paper or something and when you are normally driven in City, Altis is any day less bumpier than cedia.

Think of it from Dad's point man. Dads would be least bothered about the steering, they anit no drifting man. They want as less engine noise as possible and the last thing they want is the crepy lady voice in the sat nav to suggest them to go left or right. Blue tooth is not their cup of tea any ways. Plus I dont remeber but most features are available in altis as well.

Lastly, and the most important, you are looking for a car costing between 13 to 30 lacs, so a person capable of spending 30 lacs must be really concerned about the brand value. Cedia, no matter how much good it is cannot not have the same brand value as that of altis. I mean although I bought mine 1.5year old for 5 lacs, people even suggested me to but a new accent. I didnt have answer to that and was shocked. One can only laugh about it. Cedia is great car for an enthusiast and Altis is a great car for a common person. (I love cedia and respect all those who have bought it, I have one too).
First of all, budget is not 30 lakhs! I was just looking at cars in the price range to see which are the good driver's cars.

Secondly, I expected my dad to still be in his 20s at heart. He's not a typical dad. Former K-1000 rally winner(in those RWD Fiats) and participated in K-1000 on bike and in a car many many times. He was into motorsport when he was young. Then he got married.

And he isnt one to not cross 80 or anything. It's just that nowdays he doesnt drive much. He prefers to sit in the backseat, talk business on the phone while the driver navigates through the hell which is Bangalore.

He drives only during weekends(which has reduced by 90% since I got my license) and long distance(which has reduced as I'm the one driving everytime we go together).

I know the Altis makes perfect sense for him. Also, resale value is important as he plans on selling it after 3 years. And the Altis will easily make up for the extra 2 lakhs.

But I want the Cedia! Unfortunately, I'm not the one buying :(

I'll get the Cedia secondhand in 2-3 years hopefully.
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Old 24th September 2009, 00:29   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
First of all, budget is not 30 lakhs! I was just looking at cars in the price range to see which are the good driver's cars.

Secondly, I expected my dad to still be in his 20s at heart. He's not a typical dad. Former K-1000 rally winner(in those RWD Fiats) and participated in K-1000 on bike and in a car many many times. He was into motorsport when he was young. Then he got married.

And he isnt one to not cross 80 or anything. It's just that nowdays he doesnt drive much. He prefers to sit in the backseat, talk business on the phone while the driver navigates through the hell which is Bangalore.

He drives only during weekends(which has reduced by 90% since I got my license) and long distance(which has reduced as I'm the one driving everytime we go together).

I know the Altis makes perfect sense for him. Also, resale value is important as he plans on selling it after 3 years. And the Altis will easily make up for the extra 2 lakhs.

But I want the Cedia! Unfortunately, I'm not the one buying :(

I'll get the Cedia secondhand in 2-3 years hopefully.
Addressed my view in the next post after I read your dad is a former K-1000 rally winner. Your dad seriously need cedia. hehe.

A second hand cedia would be a relative bargain. A great car at great price, thanx to poor resale, I have one with me, else the max I would have bought is the top end model of swift.

in btw, 30 lac budget was what I gathered from the thread title, still need to go through it. All the best.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 24th September 2009 at 00:36.
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Old 24th September 2009, 07:48   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
He was into motorsport when he was young. Then he got married.

Quote:
I know the Altis makes perfect sense for him. Also, resale value is important as he plans on selling it after 3 years. And the Altis will easily make up for the extra 2 lakhs.
I agree with the resale part. Toyota after all.
Quote:
But I want the Cedia! Unfortunately, I'm not the one buying :(
Is the decision already made ? Man you need some soft skill trainings to convince your dad. He already has rally genes in him somewhere. So does the Cedia.
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Old 24th September 2009, 10:19   #28
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I agree with the resale part. Toyota after all.


Is the decision already made ? Man you need some soft skill trainings to convince your dad. He already has rally genes in him somewhere. So does the Cedia.
The decision has not been made. He plans to buy it next month.
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Old 24th September 2009, 13:18   #29
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Nikhil as you said,go for Altis for the sake of dad & you look for a used cedia for your personal use.(if not now atleast later)
Now wake up Dad's K-1000 rally pro in him with the cedia.
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Old 24th September 2009, 13:54   #30
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nikhil
did you TD the altis sports ( limited edition) or normal topd end Altis?
if yes what was teh throttle responce?
regards
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