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Old 17th October 2009, 15:43   #211
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Mr. Well Wisher (the Manza Reviewer) has some more information for all of us:

Quote:
1. Manza means steer in Italian. But this thing still has still some way to go before it has a decent steer-ing. Lol.

2. Some don't get the drift about why Linea should worry. It should, because the car is identical in terms of features and is priced anywhere between Rs 70k to 1.5 lakh cheaper. And sold in the same showroom, it's hard not to convince why not Manza. Besides, it's no longer about how much margin you make on a car. Salesmen have moved beyond that and are now trying to sell cars people want. It's not so much "sell the most expensive car you can".

3. Fiat has to really decide if this partnership with Tata Motors is good in the long term. Right now, Tata is milking out all the benefits - it's definitely getting more out of this venture. IMHO, Fiat needs to take a call on whether it wants to be an engine supplier, sell some cars and be happy that they have some profits to make or sell a lot of cars and some engines and be one of India's top five auto manufacturers. Either way, I don't give this partnership more than three to five years, but stranger things have happened so I will be happy if I'm proved wrong

4. The Manza electric is on its way. Know this from a fairly credible source. No decision on India plans just yet.

5. I don't see a Manza CS or XL. There might be an estate, but that's how far they will want to take the platform as far as body styles are concerned.
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Old 17th October 2009, 16:24   #212
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
3. Fiat has to really decide if this partnership with Tata Motors is good in the long term. Right now, Tata is milking out all the benefits - it's definitely getting more out of this venture. IMHO, Fiat needs to take a call on whether it wants to be an engine supplier, sell some cars and be happy that they have some profits to make or sell a lot of cars and some engines and be one of India's top five auto manufacturers. Either way, I don't give this partnership more than three to five years, but stranger things have happened so I will be happy if I'm proved wrong:

It will affect the sales of Linea for sure and Fiat will have a lot of thinking and will have to make a lot of reactive decisions ahead like bringing in more powerful engines, Seggregate the showroom display/testdrive section to some extent so that the cross shopping effect is minimised.

The Image of Fiat hasnt changed significantly and I feel they are not in a position to distance themselves. Atleast the engines are doing good business and that should be some saving grace. Hope things change for the better for Fiat.

Saw the review on the Autocar show and It does feel Vistaish in looks. Still a quantum leap from the indgo design. The front hood's steep downward shape and the length of the front overhang is what makes the hatch a difficult desgn to work upon while converting to a sedan. Better than Dzire and thats what you need to be happy with.

The punto's front overhang is better and the sedan version gelled pretty well and the designers did a pretty good job too.

Last edited by muni : 17th October 2009 at 16:28.
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Old 17th October 2009, 16:30   #213
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Thanks GTO for sharing those additional information on Manza from the Reviewer.

I was in Tata showroom to checkout Manza. Yes Manza has impressed me. But I may not personally buy one as it doesnt fit my style or character. But its a perfect family sedan for middle class Indians. I am sure people would just lap it up and I would also recommend this to people looking for a sedan in that budget.

With the launch of Manza, Linea suddenly looks like a premiumish car to own when Linea itself is another pure VFM play. But then standing aside Manza, thats how one tends to look at Linea, and no one can beat Manzas VFM. For Linea, looks and stylewise its much more sophisticated and looks class apart. But when you open and sit inside, it lacks the plush feel, one is turned off by interiors. I guess Fiat shud up the interiors, plonk in powerful effecient engines and charge a reasonable 50k - 1Lakh more and position Linea as a premium car in the C-segment as no one can play VFM game with Tata now. So, for another 1.5 - 2lakhs more one might get a great looking car with good interiors and powerful effecient engine. People should start feeling why not extend the budget little more and get a Linea itself. It may not sell volumes, if it still sells 1000 - 1200 every month, it shud be decent going for Fiat.

Plonking in Lineas engine in Punto and offering at the current price is another way they can up the sales for Punto. What I see now is, for an average joe who walks in to check out Punto, can also start thinking like why not put a few thousands more and buy a Manza rather than a Punto.

Tata - Fiat should be a win win game. If Manza becomes a huge success at the cost of Linea and Punto, it would become more of Tata winning I guess. How they sustain this marriage would be a interesting case study anyways.

Above are just my thoughts, I might be wrong too.

Last edited by rajivn : 17th October 2009 at 16:32.
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Old 17th October 2009, 19:44   #214
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a manza estate would be awesome - i'd love to own one.

btw, GTO, when can we expect a t-bhp review?
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Old 17th October 2009, 19:55   #215
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looks better than the dezire..
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Old 17th October 2009, 20:13   #216
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Would love to see Manza de-throne the Dzire which looks ugly inside-out; not to forget the way too long waiting.

Few months back my brother booked a Dzire vxi, even after two months there was no confirmation on delivery date from dealer's end. He finally got it canceled to buy Punto - a worthy decision I would say-.Would have been worth considering if Manza's been there.
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Old 17th October 2009, 20:46   #217
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Little work on the picture which makes me not like the car.

Tata Manza 1.3 diesel - First Drive Report. Edit: Pictures added on Page 4.-untitled.jpg

Tata Manza 1.3 diesel - First Drive Report. Edit: Pictures added on Page 4.-untitled1.jpg

I am not sure if I still like the outcome.
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Old 17th October 2009, 21:52   #218
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@1100D, I always thought TATA should have designed the grill the way you have photoshoped. Though it looks similar to the old Toyota camry grill but it does look better then the one its featuring right now.
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Old 17th October 2009, 22:50   #219
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I think we'll have to wait and see if Tata has the build quality right. FIAT certainly didn't with the Linea what with bits falling off brand new cars.
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Old 17th October 2009, 23:53   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
With the launch of Manza, Linea suddenly looks like a premiumish car to own when Linea itself is another pure VFM play. But then standing aside Manza, thats how one tends to look at Linea, and no one can beat Manzas VFM..
Simply put, If you dont want to spend more than 10 Lakhs for a car and If you are in the drivers seat all the time, go for Linea else if you are always on the back seat (let some one else drive for you) Manza is the one.
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Old 18th October 2009, 00:19   #221
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Manza will age well once the headlights starts to darken

Tata Manza 1.3 diesel - First Drive Report. Edit: Pictures added on Page 4.-untitled2.jpg
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Old 18th October 2009, 00:22   #222
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Its true that Manza does not win in the looks department. However, we need to wait and see if other attributes like features, build quality, FE would make it a winner.

Also, I dont believe that Fiat is losing anything out of the partnership. They are selling more Lineas and Puntos because of the partnership as far as I can guess.

Last edited by srishiva : 18th October 2009 at 00:23.
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Old 18th October 2009, 08:38   #223
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Have to agree with Srishiva. No Manza in the showroom yet but plenty of Lineas and Puntos there along with a lone Nano at Tafe Access. Surprisingly I did find a few old gen Indigos there.
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Old 18th October 2009, 09:02   #224
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okay, i've held my peace so far but i now feel the need to spew!!!

my personal take on the car is that as good an effort it is, tata just needs to stop making the insides looking so blasted cheap....the central console is a case in point - i agree that the linea's is nothing to write home about, but the manza's is just plain downright cheap and nasty.

it needs a MUCH bigger wheel and tyre combo to fill up the ridiculously large wheel arches. for me, the styling of the front headlights just do not work.... they do on the vista, just not on the manza. the steering wheel design is just plain boring. these jokers need to learn to FINISH. to draw a tenuous comparison, the last sprinter in the 4x100 m relay is invariably the FASTEST, BADDEST, MEANEST and most FIERCE competitor, because (S)HE is the one who needs to cross the finish line ahead of the rest.

tata makes real world VFM cars for real people, what they seem to fail to understand that these real people's aspirations are for a car that is atleast 2 segments higher. as they say, "if you reach for the stars, you'll touch the clouds" so - continue making the brilliant cars that you do - squeeze out all you can from all the existing partnerships / associations / ownership (fiat/jlr) you can, and THEN deliver quality just that one notch better than the competition. i can guarantee that the competition will bow and wither.

i agree with the guys here that the tata - fiat tie up is slowly skewing towards tata, (which is a good thing in my opinion) but i would not rule out fiat just yet. i have a sneaky suspicion that the linea is heading for an engine upgrade on the diesel which will be the standard offering flagship, with a couple of bells and whistles to justify an extra 50k to 1 lakh+ price tag. the punto will (IMHO) carry on with the 1.3 multijet and the 2 petrol power-trains. so, the distinction between the tata and fiat products will then be driven by styling AND price AND brand loyalty/perceived snob value.

personally, if i was in the market today to replace my palio, and the linea / manza were lined up in front of me, i would STILL choose the linea.

before anyone now begins to jump down my substantial throat - pls be warned that i own BOTH a tata and a fiat, so i have no reason to put one down over the other (and i don't). i am happy to get into intelligent discussions based on informed reasoning, just unwilling to respond to gentlemen and ladies who decide to spam (with no offence to anyone in advance)

stay safe and drive sane guys....

Last edited by bIte tHe bulLet : 18th October 2009 at 09:06.
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Old 18th October 2009, 09:48   #225
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my wild guess would be that fiat is dumping its enigines which are in stock so that they can release their liena & punto on brand new engine (petrol / diesel). This would do justice to both TATA and fiat as they would sell parallel.
Manza for people who are happy with present fiat engine & mid-class interiors & exteriors.

Linea/punto for people willing to sell out extra money for a brand new powerful engine on the same linea/punto interiors & exteriors.
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