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Old 18th October 2009, 09:53   #226
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Either way fiat in india is making money by selling engines rather than cars!!
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Old 18th October 2009, 10:03   #227
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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
Simply put, If you dont want to spend more than 10 Lakhs for a car and If you are in the drivers seat all the time, go for Linea else if you are always on the back seat (let some one else drive for you) Manza is the one.
If I am gonna be in the drivers seat, it would be a Fiesta. Even Fiesta diesel is a great drive in the city. Linea in current engines doesnt offer a spirited drive. Lets wait for the new engines. It shud help Linea 1. to differentiate itself from Manza 2. Offer more power to the people who have been asking for it.
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Old 18th October 2009, 11:20   #228
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Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet View Post
tata makes real world VFM cars for real people, what they seem to fail to understand that these real people's aspirations are for a car that is atleast 2 segments higher.
Ummm, given the sales figures (sustained, over the years, not a month here and a special there) I would hardly think they're the ones who fail to understand their user segment

Sure, personal wishes, desires etc are a different matter and one always wishes the Tatas were a little funkier or the Hondas a little more VFM, but thats life.
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Old 18th October 2009, 11:23   #229
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I feel apart from the engines Fiat need to upgrade their interiors too because the kind of premium they are charging their competition is someone else. I always felt going for the higher segment car should always bring in the overall satisfaction in terms of Styling, interior quality, space, comfort and power, acheiving just one or few of these will lead to failure. At this point Fiat just succeeds in providing style but they are capable of providing all of this, I hope it is just the matter of time when they will.
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Old 18th October 2009, 11:31   #230
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Well, Fiat's strategy makes a lot of business sense. They're pretty much a monopoly for India's "National Engine" and will soon have the whole series here for carmakers to choose from. Sure, selling your own cars is more glamourous (and just to have the branding going, esp as a flagship, worth it) but selling engines to every potential car on a buyer's list is wayyy smarter : lowered risks, lowered *** effort and you still have both brand recall and market leadership!
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Old 18th October 2009, 11:52   #231
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Originally Posted by zenx View Post
Ummm, given the sales figures (sustained, over the years, not a month here and a special there) I would hardly think they're the ones who fail to understand their user segment
hey zen,

their sales figures are primarily made up of people who want a VFM car but are unwilling to shell out the premium demanded by other manufacturers in the same segment. (and unfortunately a lot of people in the transport business use tata products as their steeds of choice)

THAT still does not mean that a person driving a safari (myself) still does not wish for the interiors of (for lack of a better example) a CRV. the trick is that if tata can deliver the safari with the interiors of even a fortuner (not that the fortuner is fantastic either, however.....), they would have superseded my expectations AND given me a truly VFM vehicle @ a price point that would scare the toyotas and the re-badged daewoos of this world.

tata is consciously trying to create a differential now - the vista was the 1st step of marking a product a notch up from what the transporters use (how many vista taxis have you seen - i have seen not one). the manza is step 2. an average indigo buyer who will use it as a taxi, will probably not buy the manza, but a potential linea buyer might. THATs an upward revision of market segment. THAT is where the manza is selling itself short.

& THATS the point i was trying to make.

stay sane homies!!!
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Old 18th October 2009, 11:53   #232
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Its going to be a hard sell for Fiat to demand 1.5 - 2.0 lakhs more than the Manza. The Tata has way more interior room, a more trustworthy brand, excellent ride quality and the same engine / showroom. As an enthusiast, I would anydays prefer the Linea due to its awesome (read = real awesome steering) & handling package. Yet, if I were to choose a car for the family, it would be the Manza.

Fiat needs to justify that 1.5 lakh premium as the market doesn't care about high speed dynamics. Plus, the Lineas interiors are put together in a very Tataísh way anyways. The car, being Fiats comeback vehicle, is running on wafer thin margins at the moment. On one hand, Fiat would like to increase the price of the Linea as it is today, and on the other, a bigger engine + better interiors + higher price will make it lose out on the VFM equation even more. Add to that the fact that the Manza will easily manage 3000 odd cars a month. Result : Better economies of scale compared to Fiat.

Lets hold further discussion on the Manza versus Linea perspective once we have thoroughly tested the car. That way, it'll offer way more insight into Tata's latest.
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Old 18th October 2009, 12:09   #233
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Yet, if I were to choose a car for the family, it would be the Manza.
Bingo! And thats where most of the market is!
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Old 18th October 2009, 12:32   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bIte tHe bulLet View Post
hey zen,

THAT still does not mean that a person driving a safari (myself) still does not wish for the interiors of (for lack of a better example) a CRV. the trick is that if tata can deliver the safari with the interiors of even a fortuner (not that the fortuner is fantastic either, however.....), they would have superseded my expectations AND given me a truly VFM vehicle @ a price point that would scare the toyotas and the re-badged daewoos of this world.
Interesting point. So, assuming that with the same Manza exterior, if TATA were to charge 1 lakh or 1.5 lakh more(say 9-9.5 lakh on road ) for "super premium interior" aka say a mercedes, how many would buy? I should assume not many. But providing that option may satisfy the critics. But IMO, that expense in terms of research, time, resource, etc. will not be justified in the expected ROI.

I think TATA is on the 2nd stage of evolution with the nano and Vista series. This stage would be completed with the launch of safari refresh, indicruz and may be sumo grande refresh. I would like to compare this stage to achieving the standards of Honda and Toyota in the last decade. That is a tall order and very tough for TATA to achieve

The next stage would be New Platform for Safari, Prima Sedan, etc. And at this stage nano might be one of the largest selling car world over and TATA might want to matchup with the competition at every level. I hope they succeed and then may be in our lifetime, we can see the emergence of an indian company that could be a major player in automobile world.
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Old 18th October 2009, 12:38   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi1309 View Post
Here, got some from *************
Attachment 210538

Attachment 210539

More pics here.

Indgio Manza Real Pictures
Swell ! all the other tata sedans look like the boot was an afterthought.
this one looks like the sedan form was designed first and the hatch was derived out of that. splendid !
Only it could have done with chunkier wheels like the sx4. For that matter this one looks like another
tough looking car like sx4
But Very good lines. Easily the bestlookeing front after linea.
rear though is indigo'ish.

Last edited by HIGHNOON : 18th October 2009 at 12:42.
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Old 18th October 2009, 12:54   #236
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It didnt occur to me that the Manza would be eating into the Linea market. Fiat with all its pros and cons , still has a niche market and small but loyal following base.
Maybe just wishfull thinking but i was hoping that the Manza would hit the overpriced Dezire hard , hurt maruti and make them think of lowering the pricing and hike up the specs a bit.
And on the other hand it may affect the SX4 market both petrol and diesel.
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Old 18th October 2009, 14:24   #237
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Fiat to launch 1.9L Linea

WHOA ! does that mean we may soon see a Manza 1.6 Quadrajet sooner than anticipated?
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Old 18th October 2009, 20:47   #238
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Hi, Iam new to the forum so please excuse me of any inexperienced words i may have used.

I had a visit to prerana motors, Lalbagh road, Bangalore on 16th October. Red colour Manza was on the floor, car looks lengthy and bulky and made my head turn towards those tyres which looked small to this heavy beast ( just my opinion here). There was no vehicle for test drive and sales person told me that official launch in bangalore is on 23rd Ocotber 2009 with availability of test drive. There were around 7 bookings confirmed in their showroom as per sales persons words . I noticed one thing about manza is that its a BS3 vehicle which is on sale and when i enquired about BS4 norms which may come from next year, he said they are ready for BS4 which will be released in late march ( based on sales persons comments) can we expect change in price when tata launches BS4 in coming year?
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Old 18th October 2009, 21:47   #239
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
But its a perfect family sedan for middle class Indians. I am sure people would just lap it up and I would also recommend this to people looking for a sedan in that budget.
Isn't that the largest segment in our market?

Isn't it so ironic that we had fierce arguments on how much Linea is VFM when compared to ANHC. Enter Manza and the tables have turned upside down. Manza seems so much VFM compared to Linea.

These are great times for us - the great Indian customer! Arent' we spoilt for choices now?
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Old 18th October 2009, 21:48   #240
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
If I am gonna be in the drivers seat, it would be a Fiesta. Even Fiesta diesel is a great drive in the city. Linea in current engines doesnt offer a spirited drive. Lets wait for the new engines. It shud help Linea 1. to differentiate itself from Manza 2. Offer more power to the people who have been asking for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
my wild guess would be that fiat is dumping its enigines which are in stock so that they can release their liena & punto on brand new engine (petrol / diesel). This would do justice to both TATA and fiat as they would sell parallel.
Manza for people who are happy with present fiat engine & mid-class interiors & exteriors.

Linea/punto for people willing to sell out extra money for a brand new powerful engine on the same linea/punto interiors & exteriors.
There are reports and confirmed personally with owners of the Linea, that it in no way feels underpowered. And it is also highly unlikely that there will be a powerful Linea anytime soon (Sadly).


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Its going to be a hard sell for Fiat to demand 1.5 - 2.0 lakhs more than the Manza. The Tata has way more interior room, a more trustworthy brand, excellent ride quality and the same engine / showroom. As an enthusiast, I would anydays prefer the Linea due to its awesome (read = real awesome steering) & handling package. Yet, if I were to choose a car for the family, it would be the Manza.

Fiat needs to justify that 1.5 lakh premium as the market doesn't care about high speed dynamics. Plus, the Lineas interiors are put together in a very Tataísh way anyways. The car, being Fiats comeback vehicle, is running on wafer thin margins at the moment. On one hand, Fiat would like to increase the price of the Linea as it is today, and on the other, a bigger engine + better interiors + higher price will make it lose out on the VFM equation even more. Add to that the fact that the Manza will easily manage 3000 odd cars a month. Result : Better economies of scale compared to Fiat.

Lets hold further discussion on the Manza versus Linea perspective once we have thoroughly tested the car. That way, it'll offer way more insight into Tata's latest.
I agree. Atleast they should immediately start off with all leather interiors. However, I feel that with Manza and Linea standing side by side, people will actually move towards Linea, which looks much more superior and has far more features. I fear this would be a rare case of Fiat eating into Tatas customer base. May be they might settle for Dynamic Pack which will more or less be on par with the Manza top end. A very unique opportunity for Fiat, I believe.

As you are saying that Fiat is already treading on wafer thin margins, I do not know how will they manage to give more at the current pricings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aditya79india View Post
Fiat to launch 1.9L Linea

WHOA ! does that mean we may soon see a Manza 1.6 Quadrajet sooner than anticipated?
Well the article says that it will be showcased at the auto expo 10. You never know whether it will actually see the light of the day.
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