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Old 22nd November 2009, 03:59   #46
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Sid, with all due respect to your opinions I would like to say that if Bolero with 18th century dash, crude power plant and much more cartoonish looks can sell in thousands, Xylo with its ugly looks and proportions can sell then any thing else can, its a matter of setting your 7 Ps right
Agree completely. The Grande given a healthy dose of reliability is better than the other two cars mentioned here. The leaf sprung rear suspension that is taken a big negative seems to be something that people read in the specs and decide that is HAS to be really bad. I have taken a ride in the Grande for close to a couple of hours over a mix of good and bad roads, never did the leaf sprung suspension become "obvious".
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Old 22nd November 2009, 07:36   #47
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@Santy,@akhilesh51@Amartya

The Bolero maybe crude, but it has earned a reputation of being a low cost to buy and own vehicle and hence the attractiveness for people who want an affordable and reliable people mover. From the ads for the Grande Tata's were looking for the private passenger market rather than the Taxi market. If so, they should have gone the extra length to design a vehicle for families rather than the Taxi segment.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 07:42   #48
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@Santy,@akhilesh51@Amartya

The Bolero maybe crude, but it has earned a reputation of being a low cost to buy and own vehicle and hence the attractiveness for people who want an affordable and reliable people mover. From the ads for the Grande Tata's were looking for the private passenger market rather than the Taxi market. If so, they should have gone the extra length to design a vehicle for families rather than the Taxi segment.
You definitely have a point there. Positioning was confusing. Tata lost an opportunity with the Grande, and this revision too will probably not work out (my opinion). I think that the Tata engineers have just too much work on their hands, look at the number of revised/new products they've come out with recently.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 08:04   #49
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@Santy,@akhilesh51@Amartya

The Bolero maybe crude, but it has earned a reputation of being a low cost to buy and own vehicle and hence the attractiveness for people who want an affordable and reliable people mover. From the ads for the Grande Tata's were looking for the private passenger market rather than the Taxi market. If so, they should have gone the extra length to design a vehicle for families rather than the Taxi segment.
Even Bolero was aimed for the private market. Mahindra was audacious enough to suggest Bolero as a private vehicle! Remember the 'break free' ad series? The vehicle 'fell' automatically into the role it deserves!

On the other hand, I am amazed to see private Bolero's on the road. I had once an opportunity to speak to a few new Bolero owners (all personal usage) from the same area (probably the same dealership). They all said (and convinced) that the Bolero is better than the ... wait for it... Innova! This was told by the salesman. There is no logic for some of the sales patterns in India. Sales is still driven by rumours, uncles, cousins etc. The Sumo Grande's low sales is probably not a reflection on the product quality.

My advice to the Tata sales man. Claim that its better than the Fortuner! People will line up to buy!
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Old 22nd November 2009, 10:13   #50
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@Trapezip:

We might like to concoct our own fantasies that cars sell on rumors? Do you sincerely believe that majority of buyers are that dumb to buy on rumors? Did Toyota build the reputation it has based on rumors? Come on man, aggregate larger market will go for a product based on past history and perception though some may buy on rumors and without sound reasoning. What I am saying is that I completely disagree with your opinion that Bolero is the largest selling MUV based on rumors !!

I agree that the Bolero is not the best product and I am by no means a big fan of the Bolero, but apparently it satisfies a need for a huge swath of the market. You and me may not want to buy a Bolero the market is much much larger than either of us.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 10:59   #51
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@Trapezip:

We might like to concoct our own fantasies that cars sell on rumors? Do you sincerely believe that majority of buyers are that dumb to buy on rumors? Did Toyota build the reputation it has based on rumors? Come on man, aggregate larger market will go for a product based on past history and perception though some may buy on rumors and without sound reasoning. What I am saying is that I completely disagree with your opinion that Bolero is the largest selling MUV based on rumors !!

I agree that the Bolero is not the best product and I am by no means a big fan of the Bolero, but apparently it satisfies a need for a huge swath of the market. You and me may not want to buy a Bolero the market is much much larger than either of us.

Take it easy!

My guess is about 20% research properly before they buy. The rest goes by ads, image so no (basically the intangibles). I would say only a minority even test drives their cars before buying. The majority drives the car for the first time on their own one! Car dealers claim that their test drive cars are rarely asked and hence they do not maintain one. Perhaps you can try asking for the test drive of a Bolero as an example.

I did not mention that the Bolero sells on rumours. But a good percentage does. I did not conjure up these reasons here. I was lucky to speak to a few when they bought it and one year after they bought it. There was a big difference in perception. All these are my HO.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 11:51   #52
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If you theory is right, I guess you just found a way to increase the Sumo Grande Sales by 80% given that only 20% research a product.

Safari has some of the best and classiest adverts if you ask me, much better than the crass Mighty Muscular Scorpio ads. Ever wondered by Scorpio sells 4 times as much as the Safari? End of the day, a good product matters more than hype, adds and conversations with 4 owners of the vehicle. By good, I don't mean perfect product, but a product that meets the requirements of a huge percentage of buyers.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 22nd November 2009 at 11:55.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 11:57   #53
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I did not mention that the Bolero sells on rumours. But a good percentage does. I did not conjure up these reasons here. I was lucky to speak to a few when they bought it and one year after they bought it. There was a big difference in perception. All these are my HO.
One need not test drive the bolero, in the sense people who buy them(a majority of them) know very well what they are getting from it. For rural markets it is the next best alternative to the ambassador with its simple mechanicals and DI engine. Of course innova is one of the best, but let us give each vehicle its due.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 19:47   #54
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TATA is proving again and again the idiom "old habits die hard". Before Vista, TATA always used to launch vehicles with 70%-80% of features at good value proposition and it never worked really well. But especially in Vista and Manza they went the whole nine yards and one can see how the results are. Many folks have booked manza without even test driving.

Hope TATA would take the cue and provide what the market wants. It is really frustrating TATA....
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Old 23rd November 2009, 00:05   #55
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@Trapezip:

We might like to concoct our own fantasies that cars sell on rumors? Do you sincerely believe that majority of buyers are that dumb to buy on rumors? Did Toyota build the reputation it has based on rumors? Come on man, aggregate larger market will go for a product based on past history and perception though some may buy on rumors and without sound reasoning. What I am saying is that I completely disagree with your opinion that Bolero is the largest selling MUV based on rumors !!

I agree that the Bolero is not the best product and I am by no means a big fan of the Bolero, but apparently it satisfies a need for a huge swath of the market. You and me may not want to buy a Bolero the market is much much larger than either of us.
@4x4addict

Rumour may be read as a word of mouth, In india all publicity mediums fail in front of WOM. and there is a great sense of Value proposition and as you said need fulfillment

Bolero was not a sucessful product when it was launched as a successor to failed Armada Grand, M & M has improved the product year on year, improved its refinement, FE and simulteniously dropped its prices. apart from this Mahindra finance is supporting it well in the rural market so there are many Ps well set for Bolero to make it sucessful after few years of its launch. Scorpio too picked up the market after dropping prices with face lift in March 2009 otherwise it was continously dropping
Safari also had started selling when the prices were dropped by 80 k

the point is you need to tewak your product to the changing needs, further improve your value proposition with imroved product and achieve right or below the percieved price and the product would definately start selling (needless to mention other Ps - Place, Promotion, people, Processes, Physical Evidence should also be improved)

I think Grande MK II also following the path through improved product,
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Old 23rd November 2009, 01:18   #56
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@akhilesh, great review! regarding the sumo vs bolero war, i believe the market where those two are majorily sold matters (urban/semi-urban/rural)
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Old 23rd November 2009, 02:53   #57
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@4x4addict

apart from this Mahindra finance is supporting it well in the rural market so there are many Ps well set for Bolero to make it sucessful after few years of its launch.
This is something we tend to miss when discussing car successes here. How a manufacturer can make a car affordable. It would be good to know how maruti fared with its Rs. 2250 /month for M 800 scheme it had launched with SBI a couple of years back.

Last edited by manolin : 23rd November 2009 at 02:54. Reason: typo
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Old 23rd November 2009, 06:38   #58
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If you theory is right, I guess you just found a way to increase the Sumo Grande Sales by 80% given that only 20% research a product.

Safari... and Scorpio...
So you are saying that all the rural folks who buy the Bolero are as well researched and informed as a Safari owner. Sounds extremely logical.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:12   #59
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TATA seems to be trying to walk a tight line as far as product positioning is concerned. It has taken a hard decision to not let the MKII canabolize the sales of it's upcomming products, it is firmly positioned for specific segment and yep certain individuals will like it's looks etc and yet will not be able to go for the MKII due to absence of Airbags and ABS - I guess they belive they will not be able to draw too many of these customer and have consciously decided not to even attempt to draw them here.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:29   #60
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Nice initial review
disappointed with the dash board/console, the Xenon ones looks much better than the Grande console.
I was hoping , praying that they did'nt retain the facia.
They do need to have a different set of eyes to look at that.Has anyone told them? Look at a Xylo's facia to see what is expected from this product!Hmpf!

Or the next thing - take that guy who designed the facia and inject him with
some grey cells in his brain.grrrr!
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