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Old 15th December 2009, 14:15   #91
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Price correction is disappointing. To take the Xylo-Bolero battle The GX version must have been priced at Rs.6.99 lakhs with ABS included/option. Bolero has high reliability and rural market Whiel Xylo has better Quality interiors, DDAS and ABS to get rural/urban families to consider them.

What is the point TATA to keept the price high ONLY to offer 60K discount later on dismal sales.

No new buyer will decide on features like ORVM blinkers,rubrails and chrome on grill alone.

10% Reduction in GX Pricing with ABS availability was the NEED to PULL family car / premium hatch buyers to consider Tata Grande.

Tata seems to have missed this opportunity again.

Note: the new website is grandemkii.co.m. Tata is not mentioning SUMO . It is just Grande MKii

Last edited by harimakesh : 15th December 2009 at 14:27.
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Old 15th December 2009, 14:17   #92
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Quality is Fine
Ride is OK
Interiors are OK
Looks are Fine
PRICE IS NOT FINE.

They need to reprice 1L cheaper and sales would happen automatically - but they won't and it won't sell.
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Old 15th December 2009, 14:23   #93
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For all the success of Xylo, Mahindra sold only 1997 of them in November.
The Sumo sold 1714 units, out of which Grande could've sold around 1000 (my guess). With the launch of the MKII, if the sales shoot up to 2K units (of Grande, around the same number as Xylo), will it be called a success?

Last edited by safari_lover : 15th December 2009 at 14:25.
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Old 15th December 2009, 14:32   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
For all the success of Xylo, Mahindra sold only 1997 of them in November.
The Sumo sold 1714 units, out of which Grande could've sold around 1000 (my guess). With the launch of the MKII, if the sales shoot up to 2K units (of Grande, around the same number as Xylo), will it be called a success?
Tata being the first MUV maker to taste huge success with its SUMO as an experienced MUV maker TATA must take on the competition seriously and should not have lost its segment leadership in MUV to competition.

What can give TATA success again in MUV segment is ONLY by making a genuine offering of Grande MKii at traditional TATA VFM price and features against its current competition.
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Old 15th December 2009, 14:42   #95
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I liked the Interior colours & Fabric

The All Grande Mark II - Interior 360


I think the changes are more in the performance areas than in other areas, as mentioned on the website

Better Performance

Driveability
the new gear ratio ensures instant response as you tap the accelerator pedal, ensuring better fuel efficiencyHandling
the new suspension design offeres the low roll characteristeic for your comfort and control of the carComfort
the new soft suspension makes sure that any uneveness of the road is soaked by suspension to ensure highest comfort levelsNoise & Vibration
the new Acostic package developed with the latest engineering with new design body mounts ensures the noise & vibrations are arrested at source to make it silent

one needs to drive and rate these factors

so any TDs post launch
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Old 15th December 2009, 15:06   #96
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Hi All,

there is a TD report on carwale on Grande MK II

link below
[COLOR=blue][/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue][FONT='Comic Sans MS']Tata Sumo Grande MK II GX First Drive - Making the MarK? - CarWale.com[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue][/COLOR]
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Old 15th December 2009, 16:17   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
For all the success of Xylo, Mahindra sold only 1997 of them in November.
The Sumo sold 1714 units, out of which Grande could've sold around 1000 (my guess). With the launch of the MKII, if the sales shoot up to 2K units (of Grande, around the same number as Xylo), will it be called a success?
How did you come up with a number of 1000? If you look at the number on the roads, I doubt they sold a 1000. If sumo sold 1714 units, the bulk of it will be the traditional Sumo in various iterations like(Victa, Spacio, etc). I very much doubt the Grande outsold the classic sumo. Tata is probably too embarrassed to break out the numbers by Sumo and Sumo Grande.
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Old 15th December 2009, 16:29   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
How did you come up with a number of 1000? If you look at the number on the roads, I doubt they sold a 1000. If sumo sold 1714 units, the bulk of it will be the traditional Sumo in various iterations like(Victa, Spacio, etc). I very much doubt the Grande outsold the classic sumo. Tata is probably too embarrassed to break out the numbers by Sumo and Sumo Grande.
Not only Tata, but all manufacturers in India do not reveal their sales figures easily. Even Maruti does not reveal how many Swifts they sell regardless of their pride. All the numbers floating around are basically estimations.
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Old 15th December 2009, 19:42   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapezio View Post
Not only Tata, but all manufacturers in India do not reveal their sales figures easily. Even Maruti does not reveal how many Swifts they sell regardless of their pride. All the numbers floating around are basically estimations.


What about the sales figures posted here on Team BHP every month. how are they prepared?
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Old 15th December 2009, 21:38   #100
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We are going off-topic here.

I do not know. But none in this industry (except a couple of them maybe) have accurate sales figures. What is basically happening is that everyone has there own set of data and believes that theirs is correct!

Sad state of affairs, but this is what our highly forward thinking auto industry does!

You should ask the tbhpian who posts it.

Last edited by Trapezio : 15th December 2009 at 21:42.
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Old 16th December 2009, 00:14   #101
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Frankly speaking, I have seen only very few Grandes on road here in Trivandrum. There are more Xylos here than the Grande.
But one Grande doing rounds here is an absolute stunner (in terms of looks).
It is a black beauty, with chrome alloys and more wider tyres, the spare wheel housed in the back door just like safari but without the cover, black tints all around and a black bull bar too which gels nicely along with the overall scheme of things. If it could look this macho and attractive with these minor changes, I wonder why Tata's design engineers did not try doing it.
Unfortunately I was not able to snap it on both occasions when I spotted it.
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Old 16th December 2009, 03:29   #102
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Interesting to note that TATA is confident the grande mk II would improve the sales by another 800-1000 vehicles due to the following improvements


Driveability
the new gear ratio ensures instant response as you tap the accelerator pedal, ensuring better fuel efficiency
Handling
the new suspension design offeres the low roll characteristeic for your comfort and control of the car
Comfort
the new soft suspension makes sure that any uneveness of the road is soaked by suspension to ensure highest comfort levels
Noise & Vibration
the new Acostic package developed with the latest engineering with new design body mounts ensures the noise & vibrations are arrested at source to make it silent
[the above is taken from http://www.grandemkii.com]

This is the perfect time for someone to validate TATA's claims by either doing back to back road tests of Sumo Grande and Grande MK II or alternatively any of existing sumo grande owners could also test out the new version and verify if TATA's claims about improved ride, handling and comforts are true.
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Old 16th December 2009, 04:24   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
Price correction is disappointing. To take the Xylo-Bolero battle The GX version must have been priced at Rs.6.99 lakhs with ABS included/option. Bolero has high reliability and rural market Whiel Xylo has better Quality interiors, DDAS and ABS to get rural/urban families to consider them.

What is the point TATA to keept the price high ONLY to offer 60K discount later on dismal sales.

No new buyer will decide on features like ORVM blinkers,rubrails and chrome on grill alone.

10% Reduction in GX Pricing with ABS availability was the NEED to PULL family car / premium hatch buyers to consider Tata Grande.

Tata seems to have missed this opportunity again.

Note: the new website is grandemkii.co.m. Tata is not mentioning SUMO . It is just Grande MKii
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Quality is Fine
Ride is OK
Interiors are OK
Looks are Fine
PRICE IS NOT FINE.

They need to reprice 1L cheaper and sales would happen automatically - but they won't and it won't sell.
I know everyone's been talking about Grande - Xylo, Grande - Bolero, Grande - Scorpio comparisons and how TATA product falls short of expectation because of price and looks.

I would reserve my opinion on looks to myself as it is very personal view. GRANDE could be just as good or as bad any other product in market depending upon customer's eye.

That brings us to PRICE. Now, there has been a lot said about Xylo pricing and everything but Xylo is not the hottest selling MPV/MUV in the market. With Innova catering to more affluent customers and taxi owners, It is TAVERA that leads between the three options and guess what it is most expensive of the lot.

Some food for thought here. Tavera model in direct contention with SUMO GRANDE LX DiCOR is good 1.25 Lacs more expensive. What's more GRANDE TCIC (5.86L) is 2L cheaper than competing Tavera (7.88L) and lets not harp about TCIC engine cause Tavera too has TCIC Engine, on all models. Yet, TAVERA sells while the other 2 products are just, well staggering along.

Is Tavera better looking than Xylo / Grande
Better Engine ? certainly Not against CRDI technology.

Better Interiors ? Definitely Not.

Better Technology ? Nope.

Better Suspension ? Hell, even Tavera has leaf springs.

Better Mileage ? Yes. But a 2L premium for mileage. Just the interest per annum quotient would offset mileage advantage

Better Service ? Not when you consider the number of service centers vis - a vis Mahindra or Tata.

Maybe, there is more to looks, engine, suspension, even PRICE in this segment. Something that still is missing in TATA and MAHINDRA.
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Old 16th December 2009, 07:48   #104
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Remember that Tavera is a rebadged Isuzu Panther. The whole power train is Isuzu. People do have a certain amount of confidence in products designed and developed by a Japanese company. It maynot have a CRDi engine but Isuzu has been known to make one of the best diesel engines. You cannot even compare the Isuzu diesel in the and the Sumo Grande IDI deisel. Although on paper the Sumo Grande IDI has more power it is a smaller IDI engine and hence suffers from much more Turbo lag than the Tavera Engine. Tavera has much better Torque curve and drivability not to mention the mileage.

I do agree with you that on paper Sumo Grande with CRDi engine is definitely moer superior to the Tavera. But majority of Tavera buyers are Taxi operatiors. I feel the biggest factor for them is long term reliability and cost of ownership. The Tavera/Qualis/Innova has always been much more expensive to buy than their Indian counterparts but Taxi Operators who clock 2-3 lakh Kms on a vehicle look for total cost of ownership over this period than just the purchase price. Besides they don't care for CRDi engine or not. If you have to take the vehicle periodically to the dealer to have niggles sorted out under warranty it is okay for a private owner but a Taxi operator is loosing revenue for each on of those days spend sorting out minor niggles even if the actual cost of work is covered by extended warranty. There is an economic cost to a Taxi operator who has to periodically send his vehicle to the dealer for non-scheduled maintainance/repairs.

I also feel that Tata was targetting the family segment rather than Taxi segment with the Sumo Grande. If so, they should have done better with product and pricing.
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Old 16th December 2009, 09:48   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post
I know everyone's been talking about Grande - Xylo, Grande - Bolero, Grande - Scorpio comparisons and how TATA product falls short of expectation because of price and looks.

I would reserve my opinion on looks to myself as it is very personal view. GRANDE could be just as good or as bad any other product in market depending upon customer's eye.

That brings us to PRICE. Now, there has been a lot said about Xylo pricing and everything but Xylo is not the hottest selling MPV/MUV in the market. With Innova catering to more affluent customers and taxi owners, It is TAVERA that leads between the three options and guess what it is most expensive of the lot.

Some food for thought here. Tavera model in direct contention with SUMO GRANDE LX DiCOR is good 1.25 Lacs more expensive. What's more GRANDE TCIC (5.86L) is 2L cheaper than competing Tavera (7.88L) and lets not harp about TCIC engine cause Tavera too has TCIC Engine, on all models. Yet, TAVERA sells while the other 2 products are just, well staggering along.

Is Tavera better looking than Xylo / Grande
Better Engine ? certainly Not against CRDI technology.

Better Interiors ? Definitely Not.

Better Technology ? Nope.

Better Suspension ? Hell, even Tavera has leaf springs.

Better Mileage ? Yes. But a 2L premium for mileage. Just the interest per annum quotient would offset mileage advantage

Better Service ? Not when you consider the number of service centers vis - a vis Mahindra or Tata.

Maybe, there is more to looks, engine, suspension, even PRICE in this segment. Something that still is missing in TATA and MAHINDRA.
+1.
It is interesting to note that TATA is confident that the introduction of Grande MK II would increase the sales by 800-1000 each month.

I also agree that better interiors, refinement, ride and handling contribute to higher sales than exterior looks. This theory could explain the better sales of Tavera over xylo and grande.

To make Grande a success, TATA has to look back at their not so distant past. When the sales of Indica began to fall and more complaints about the quality arose TATA answered it all with Indica V2.

Is MK II to Grande the equivalent of Indica V2 to Indica?
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