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Old 22nd December 2009, 14:35   #121
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It would have been better for TATA to stop the Sumo Victa and lower the price band of the Grande. This would have brought more sales from the taxi segment.

Also offering an ABS option would have helped in attracting some private car buyers.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 14:36   #122
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There is another thread which had a lot of discussion on the MKII.

Yep it is worth a hype - but sadly there is not enough of it.

The refinements all go towards making this a much better MUV.

Looks though subjective has me on their side.

The Airbags though not available as an option the seatbelts are frankly more impt.

A large SUV without airbags but with seatbelts used is likely to take better care of a passenger than a small car with seatbelts and airbags. Airbags cannot defy the laws of physics and cannot prevent the body being crushed agaist the body (which happens more in smaller cars) what airbags do is dull the impact against the glass / body of the car due to the sudden impact, but with seatbelts being used one has already taken the major step.

Princess Di was not wearing her seatbelt in the fatal accident in the worlds safest car the S- Class Merc.

The New Colour option is the dark / wet Sand looks really nice on the MKII
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Old 22nd December 2009, 14:42   #123
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Sumo Grande Mk 2- 3- 4 whatever - still old rotgut in a new outfit

its about time they retired this concept completely - waste of time

too low-brow for the private buyer and too expensive for the people-hauler - so who really is the customer being targeted?

seriously, its time the sumo shuffled off its mortal coil and toddled off to the great scrap-heap in the sky

Last edited by shankar.balan : 22nd December 2009 at 14:43.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 14:45   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asr245 View Post
I dont know why the Sumo Grande never took off in the 1st place. Was it pricing? under-powered? level of equipment? As far as looks are concerned, I have always found it wayyy better than Xylo (which is plain ugly IMO).



Is any MUV a driver's car? (it's a serious question)


May be price and some cheap plastic was the reason, but Grande by any means is not under-powered. Completed approximately 19k + Kms Trouble free in Grande. Have done one trip of 170 kms two ways with 9 persons and 2 kids with 100% AC it did climb Ghats pretty easily and did max of 130+ kmph on highways, our driver was driving it. Getting FE of 12+ with 100% AC on highways. Touch Wood May be we got a Grande by luck which does not have any niggling issues so faar or May be Accidentally they created one master piece and we got it
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Old 22nd December 2009, 14:57   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekSrik View Post
you mean "subjective"

Yeah you can say but what i meant to say was "Each & every one has their own perspective to look things"
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Old 22nd December 2009, 15:01   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
too low-brow for the private buyer and too expensive for the people-hauler - so who really is the customer being targeted?
Chevrolet Tavera starts at 7.85L, Sumo Grande starts at 5.85L. You do the math which one is the expensive people hauler.

What's worse:
No CRDI engine in Tavera. Sumo Grande does have both TDi and DiCOR.
Railway bench seats.
Terrible gearbox.
Low Power.
Pathetic Braking.
Looks are subjective but Tavera isn't some Snow White if Grande is "Ugly".

I totally think this vehicle has not got its due and it sure is a very capable vehicle. Yes, ABS and AIRBAGS is increasingly becoming features of choice but then, TAVERA also does not have either.

I personally think in a head to head competition, Grande totally ruins Tavera and that is why people should look into the hype. As for changes in MKII vis-a-vis MKI apart from looks:

1. Improved Braking
2. Improved Rear Suspension.
3. Anti-Roll Package (Minimum Body Roll out of all MUVs)
4. More comfortable seats.
5. Improved Gear Ratios for city driving
6. Massively improved steering.
7. Improved fit and finish and plastics.

I would agree it still is not Scorpio or Innova competition but neither is Tata planning to hit these cars. Primarily, Grande is aimed at Tavera, Xylo and Bolero. Out of these vehicles only Xylo comes any close to Grande in terms of features but there again, Suspension, Body Roll, Braking is way behind Grande. Test rides these vehicles for a self comparison.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 17:26   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolFire View Post
The unpardonable levels of body roll IMHO was the main thing that did the Grande in. Hope they get it better in Indicruz.
am i missing what the indicruz is? is there a picture of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post

A large SUV without airbags but with seatbelts used is likely to take better care of a passenger than a small car with seatbelts and airbags. Airbags cannot defy the laws of physics and cannot prevent the body being crushed agaist the body (which happens more in smaller cars) what airbags do is dull the impact against the glass / body of the car due to the sudden impact, but with seatbelts being used one has already taken the major step.

Princess Di was not wearing her seatbelt in the fatal accident in the worlds safest car the S- Class Merc.

The New Colour option is the dark / wet Sand looks really nice on the MKII
well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post
Chevrolet Tavera starts at 7.85L, Sumo Grande starts at 5.85L. You do the math which one is the expensive people hauler.

What's worse:
No CRDI engine in Tavera. Sumo Grande does have both TDi and DiCOR.
Railway bench seats.
Terrible gearbox.
Low Power.
Pathetic Braking.
Looks are subjective but Tavera isn't some Snow White if Grande is "Ugly".


I would agree it still is not Scorpio or Innova competition but neither is Tata planning to hit these cars. Primarily, Grande is aimed at Tavera, Xylo and Bolero. Out of these vehicles only Xylo comes any close to Grande in terms of features but there again, Suspension, Body Roll, Braking is way behind Grande. Test rides these vehicles for a self comparison.
good comparisons. i agree with all of those. the tavera has been to date the worst vehicle which has never really received any updates from GM.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 18:32   #128
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one point everyone should understand that SUMO was concived as a direct compition to armada/grand of that era . though expensive then the armada of that time it clicked in the market due to its shear appeal of space and ofcourse diesel.
now look at the scenario , BOLERO as a direct compititor sells anywhere between 5000 to 8000 nos per month and the entire sumo range of victa,specio and grande even cant manage 1800 nos per month .
NOW tell me whether they launch MK2 , MK3 or MK4 , what it gona make difference?
sells are not gona go upwards as already public have refused to buy this product.
why just they concentrate on the victa itself ? they should have done that at the first place only rather then doing this expensive exercise of launching GRANDE
just put some wrap around headlamps , new bumbers, tail lamps and do a lot of improvement in handling dept and improve the dynamics. also if they want to put an same 1.9 L engine with crdi and a 4 valve head.
you have a winner at your hand . look at the bolero . same stuff and its a massive hit . why cant TATA do it ? and if INDICRUZE is coming whats the position of grande in the market ?
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:24   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroa4 View Post
and if INDICRUZE is coming whats the position of grande in the market ?
INDICRUZE (11-14L) is not in the same segment as Grande (6-8L). It is in fact two segments above Grande and is in no way a comparison to Grande or Bolero or any other people hauler in that segment.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:34   #130
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Exterior of Sumo Grande is like Shilpa Shetty, Feel great if you look part by part, but overall it lacks something or something odd.. dont know what :-)
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Old 22nd December 2009, 20:57   #131
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May be the problem is that TATA is trying to target multiple vehicles like Bolero, xylo and Tavera with Grande, but fail to position different variants directly opposite these competitors.

The Tdi version could be positioned against bolero, but bolero drives rock solid while Grande doesn't (atleast the previous version mk-1 didn't)

Dicors could be positioned against Tavera and Xylo but still not clear separation of variants in the minds of consumers.

Focused marketing should definitely help in positioning.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 00:50   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) The chassis is derived from earlier chassis and worked upon. Not a very good thing. The chassis shows its aged when stacked against competitors.

2) Whether suspension is optimized or not, the car has a certain amount of scary roll by default. Its a good utilitarian car, but not for families that are looking forward to more finished and engineered product than this. Any wonder why Innova is selling more than 4000 units per month ?

3) This is just a makeup job and nothing else. IMHO, its not worth to the hype. Basically the same old car with a few changes that are limited to small things.

I expected a new chassis when Grande Sumo came out. Also I think that the engine is detuned not for the sake of FE, but because this car cannot handle more power. Similar to Scorpio.

We need indicruz. May be with this car Tata is trying to prove that Indicruz is a big nice car.
Are your comments based on a test drive of the MKII.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 01:43   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harimakesh View Post
Family / personal car buyers will stay away due to Sumo (even if tata reduces the Sumo font size) effect, poor horrible boxy Interior Dash design, and more importantly NO ABS even as option.

Leaf spring suspension and dated chasis will fuction as further deterence.

For such an out dated design pricing also very high being a TATA.
Facts please.
The only thing I can agree on here is the dash which is still bad.

Leaf springs are also used on the Ford Endeavour.People still buy the Tavera which also has these as did the 1st gen Scorp.Not really a 'bad' suspension.The chassis is not dated.What led you to that conclusion?

The Grande is an all-new design (as of 2008) and frankly looks a lot better than a Xylo (not too hard to make that conclusion,is it)

The Grande is even a good alternative to a Scorp with the performance it gives.I have test driven one and it is quite responsive.The only thing I had an issue with is the dash.No other downs for this one. Market perception? I don't really know.There are no technical faults with this car.One of my colleagues' brother bought it and from what I know is quite happy with it.
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Old 23rd December 2009, 03:00   #134
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Xylo's success may have prompted Tata to try and ressurect the sales of Grande .
Tata has pulled up sales massively with updating models in the past . But with the Grande the task seems herculean .
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Old 23rd December 2009, 05:22   #135
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Maybe TATA should sell the dies of the SUMO to SONALIKA so that they can keep the old SUMO alive, and bring in the GRANDE to fill the void.

I think it was the FIAT connection that got them into this. Googled PUNTO, and was shocked at what I saw. Then the GRANDE PUNTO looked much better.

This SUMO as a replacement to the old SUMO will be brilliant, same price bracket. Anything more, is seriously pushing it.
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