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Old 22nd December 2009, 07:37   #46
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Originally Posted by beejay View Post
Hey Rocky, Congrats on the purchase.

I have a E6 T.Red too. Was wondering what the colours of the map pockets and the box under the driver seats are? I sure hope its not the lilac that I have on mine.

Read someplace here that on the white E8 they have black or brown.
hi beejay congrats on your t red xylo and thanks for the invite to the xylo owners page but when i tried to open the link you sent me it said my account did not have enough access(Must be because i am a newbie on the forum).
About the colour of the storage box and map pockets, i have it in brown. I did not know that there was an option of taking black interiors in a white xylo e8. I spoke to two dealers in bangalore(sireesh auto and vijai auto now SKS auto) and they told me that interior was fixed brown(no option) for white xylo.
Hey guys can anyone cofirm this option stuff !!

P.S: If this option stuff is true then some heads are going to roll at the Mahindra showroom where i bought my xylo .


@SS-Traveller: Wow that's some scary experience your relative has had on that trip. Which Variant of Xylo does your relative have ? and What colour ? And are you sure that he got 18kmpl! Because i think he may have been referring to IM( instantaneous mileage) that keeps changing with the speed you drive at.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 13:54   #47
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Originally Posted by rocky080 View Post
@SS-Traveller: Wow that's some scary experience your relative has had on that trip. Which Variant of Xylo does your relative have ? and What colour ? And are you sure that he got 18kmpl! Because i think he may have been referring to IM( instantaneous mileage) that keeps changing with the speed you drive at.
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
...his brand new Xylo E8 ABS...
The colour is brown. He's probably not relying on the IM, but measuring tankful to tankful - he's a reliable guy around cars, and also has a red Scorpio 2.6 CRDe.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 19:59   #48
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@SS traveller
Then your relative has two cars of the same engines!! because Xylo's Meagle is the same old Scorpio's CRDe upgraded!! Cheers!!
Anyways , Even i am not able to digest 18 Kmpl ,the manufacturer itself quotes 16 on the highway!!
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Old 22nd December 2009, 20:04   #49
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Originally Posted by don_carmaster View Post
@...two cars of the same engines!! because Xylo's Meagle is the same old Scorpio's CRDe upgraded!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the MEagle is the Bolero's 2.5 CRDe engine with altered ECU in a higher state of tune.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 20:28   #50
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the MEagle is the Bolero's 2.5 CRDe engine with altered ECU in a higher state of tune.
I think Bolero's CRDe engine is a smaller version of 2.6 CRDe unit of scorpio. The same engine has made it into Xylo.
Do update me if I am wrong.
The 2.2 mhawk shares block with 2.2 Safari motor as both Tata and M&M went to same manufacturer for 2.2.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 20:52   #51
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I dont know about the bolero but the xylo for sure has the same old powertrain of scorpio CRDe2.6
@aaggoswami
no not at all ,The 2.2 mhawk has no linkups with 2.2 dicor, although the displacement is same but both are different powerhouses!!
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:02   #52
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Originally Posted by don_carmaster View Post
I dont know about the bolero but the xylo for sure has the same old powertrain of scorpio CRDe2.6
@aaggoswami
no not at all ,The 2.2 mhawk has no linkups with 2.2 dicor, although the displacement is same but both are different powerhouses!!
@ don: Xylo's powertrain is completely different and tailormade for it - and the engine is a 2.5L, not 2.6L as in the Scorpio.

And yes, the Safari and Scorpio do share the same engine with different FI systems.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:07   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I think Bolero's CRDe engine is a smaller version of 2.6 CRDe unit of scorpio. The same engine has made it into Xylo.
Do update me if I am wrong.
The 2.2 mhawk shares block with 2.2 Safari motor as both Tata and M&M went to same manufacturer for 2.2.
Hey guys good to see some nice discussions going on.
As far as i know the scorpio 2.6 crde has been taken as the starting point then modified quite a bit. Remember the old scorpio did not have overhead intercoolers for the turbo. The xylo engine may even be slightly based on the new mHawk engine which does have the overhead intercoolers.

It seems to me like a mixture between the old 2.6 crde and the new 2.2 mhawk (The engineers must have gotten into a fight then as a compromise must have settled in for a 2.5ltr overhead intercooler engine for the xylo )


Does the Bolero crde have overhead intercoolers ?
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:18   #54
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
And yes, the Safari and Scorpio do share the same engine with different FI systems.
+1 on SS- traveller, but i think the xylo powertrain is slightly based on the 2.2 mhawk.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:19   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the MEagle is the Bolero's 2.5 CRDe engine with altered ECU in a higher state of tune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I think Bolero's CRDe engine is a smaller version of 2.6 CRDe unit of scorpio. The same engine has made it into Xylo.
Do update me if I am wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_carmaster View Post
I dont know about the bolero but the xylo for sure has the same old powertrain of scorpio CRDe2.6
The Bolero CRDe and mEagle have the same engine block and hence the same Cubic Capacity. This engine is no way related to the Scorpio 2.6 CRDe engine but is rather based on the old XD3P engine IDI Engine with a bolt-on Bosch CRDI system and was developed inhouse by Mahindra unlike the mHawk engine. The only difference between these two engines is the state of tune on the ECM (not sure whether mEagle has 4 valves per cylinder like mHawk. Bolero CRDe has 2valves/cylinder) thereby producing higher BHP but slightly lesser torque.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:29   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_carmaster View Post
...the same old powertrain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky080 View Post
... the xylo powertrain...
A small clarification here: The powertrain is much more than the engine only. It includes the engine, transmission, driveshafts, differentials, and the final drive (drive wheels, continuous track like with tanks or Caterpillar tractors, propeller, etc.). Sometimes "powertrain" is used to refer to simply the engine and transmission, including the other components only if they are integral to the transmission. Check Powertrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The Bolero CRDe and mEagle have the same engine block and hence the same Cubic Capacity. This engine is no way related to the Scorpio 2.6 CRDe engine but is rather based on the old XD3P engine IDI Engine with a bolt-on Bosch CRDI system and was developed inhouse by Mahindra unlike the mHawk engine. The only difference between these two engines is the state of tune on the ECM (not sure whether mEagle has 4 valves per cylinder like mHawk. Bolero CRDe has 2valves/cylinder) thereby producing higher BHP but slightly lesser torque.
Thanks MC for confirming that. I think the Xylo is also a 2-valves-per-cylinder engine.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 21:38   #57
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The Bolero CRDe and mEagle have the same engine block and hence the same Cubic Capacity. This engine is no way related to the Scorpio 2.6 CRDe engine but is rather based on the old XD3P engine IDI Engine with a bolt-on Bosch CRDI system and was developed inhouse by Mahindra unlike the mHawk engine. The only difference between these two engines is the state of tune on the ECM (not sure whether mEagle has 4 valves per cylinder like mHawk. Bolero CRDe has 2valves/cylinder) thereby producing higher BHP but slightly lesser torque.
@Milecruncher: I am not very technical , going by your view correct me if i am wrong, if there is only change in the ECM tuning between these two engines it is technically possible to attain more BHP from the xylo engine than from the 2.2 scorpio engine as it has more engine displacement

Regards
Rocky
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Old 22nd December 2009, 22:12   #58
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Originally Posted by rocky080 View Post
it is technically possible to attain more BHP from the xylo engine than from the 2.2 scorpio engine as it has more engine displacement
Apart from the displacement and ECM, other factors that play a part in determining the power (and torque) output of an engine include
  • the number of valves
  • the design and number of camshafts
  • the design of the intake and exhaust
  • the design of the pistons (e.g. oversquare or undersquare)
  • the material of construction of the engine block and head (CI or aluminium)
  • the injection system and injection pressure (e.g. whether first or third generation common rail injection)
  • whether turbocharged/NA, and type of turbocharger used.
The above is by no means a comprehensive list, and a new thread may be started if such technicalities interest you.

The Xylo engine being an older generation CI block, can withstand only so much loading, and despite it being a 2.5L, is limited by its design to produce lesser power than the mHawk newer generation engine. On the other hand, the cost of the engine is lower, which goes in favour of keeping the Xylo's overall price down. The same car with the 2.2L mHawk may well cost 1.5L - 2L more than the current prices that it sells for now; as a result it would lose its edge in the VFM department! And what I especially like about the Xylo is its absolute value-for-money packaging.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 22nd December 2009 at 22:14.
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Old 22nd December 2009, 22:39   #59
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Apart from the displacement and ECM, other factors that play a part in determining the power (and torque) output of an engine include
  • the number of valves
  • the design and number of camshafts
  • the design of the intake and exhaust
  • the design of the pistons (e.g. oversquare or undersquare)
  • the material of construction of the engine block and head (CI or aluminium)
  • the injection system and injection pressure (e.g. whether first or third generation common rail injection)
  • whether turbocharged/NA, and type of turbocharger used.
The above is by no means a comprehensive list, and a new thread may be started if such technicalities interest you.

The Xylo engine being an older generation CI block, can withstand only so much loading, and despite it being a 2.5L, is limited by its design to produce lesser power than the mHawk newer generation engine. On the other hand, the cost of the engine is lower, which goes in favour of keeping the Xylo's overall price down. The same car with the 2.2L mHawk may well cost 1.5L - 2L more than the current prices that it sells for now; as a result it would lose its edge in the VFM department! And what I especially like about the Xylo is its absolute value-for-money packaging.
Thanks for the info SS-traveller. Like i said i am not very technical. I took mile cruncher's words too literally as i thought the m-eagle and m-hawk engines were developed around the same NEF crde platform( dont ask me the abbrevations i remember having read it in some magazine some time back, don't remember which one ).

Regards
Rocky
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Old 23rd December 2009, 08:21   #60
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@ Rocky: To add to the already comprehensive list of factors influencing torque/bhp, the bore by stroke ratio also influences the torque heavily. Changes in the ECM which basically means changes in the injection timing can influence the power/torque only about 10-15% and not any more. The mEagle produces about 24kgm b/w 1800-3000 rpm while the same engine produces 255 Nm b/w 1800-2200 rpm. As you can see changes in the fuel injection has allowed to broad base the torque curve by slightly reducing and thereby making the Bhp figures higher.

Development cost of an engine up from scratch costs anywhere upwards of 100 crores whereas developing an engine on an existing platform would have been 10 Crores at the max. This aided by the fact that the XD3P block is an old rugged warhorse and the engine can be shared over two platform allows it to be ammortised much faster over a faster base.

My 2 paisa gyan

P.s: Just my observation, the engine in the Bolero passes on an enormous amount of vibration whereas in the Xylo it cannot be heard also. Wonder why couldn't the engine and body mountings coundn't be changed

Cheers

Last edited by MileCruncher : 23rd December 2009 at 08:27.
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