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Old 24th July 2011, 08:43   #4921
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by Diesel lover View Post
So if Figos running on the roads today don't use DPF, then what is the add on in the engine from Ford that makes it meet BS4 standards?

So if not the DPF, then what is it that makes the exhaust gases of the Figo diesel shed it's black shade?

I have even read and experienced that the BS4 Duratorq Figo gives a lower FE than the BS3 Duratorq Fiesta inspite being lighter than the Fiesta.

Another question that arises is that does the new fiesta and the fiesta classic have BS4 engines? I hope so because in the metros it is essential to have a BS4 engine to sell the car and the pumps sell BS4 compliant fuels. In the metros, Ikon was stopped because it had a BS3 engine and currently Ford has completely stopped its production.
From what know the BSIV TDCI has got a bigger cat con and an EGR valve in addition to its earlier variants. I always thought that the very low mileage especially during short runs was due to the EGR. But since mustang has confirmed that there is no EGR, i guess he must be right. I really dont know if there is any other modification on the BSIV variants.

What i would be more interested in knowing is if this engine turning off on depressing clutch issue is there on other cars which have the same BSIV engines.


The less back smoke could be due to all 3 reasons
  • Better CatCon
  • EGR
  • Better Fuel

All TDCi's being made now would be BSIV ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel lover View Post
Today, ran the car for the first time in test mode and made some observations regarding coolant/engine temperature.

The first start of the day at around 5 in the evening: 36 C

Temperature reaches to around 83-85 C with A/C on within 3 mins and hovers around there while driving.

If standing at traffic lights with A/C on temp reaches 88 C, then reduces to normal range of 83-85 C upon driving again.

But what worries me is that w/o A/C, during crawling traffic for a minute and then stopping for 3 mins after that, temp reaches 96 C. I open the hood and find that the radiator fan isn't working. After that I switch off the engine. Is this high temp normal? The high temperature warning lamp doesn't glow during this hit to 96 C. Although I believe that this indeed is quite high.

Suggestions are welcome.
I think the temperature should hover around 84 degree Celsius. Please make sure that your radiator fan is working. The fan is supposed to turn on when you switch on the a/c (When the compressor is on). If its not doing so please avoid using the a/c and go straight to your a.s.s.
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Old 24th July 2011, 10:30   #4922
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

Radiator fan getting conked off is a phenomenon quite common to Figo's it seems. Drivoblog, Gemi and I believe I came across a few Cars (on some or the other forum) with this issue.

The engine gets quite hot & stays the same way if driving in 1st & 2nd gears with idling. The engine takes more than 30 mins. to cool down.
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Old 24th July 2011, 14:18   #4923
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
?? IFTEX System D was being sold by the workshop - it is apparently recommended by Ford (and many other CRD manufacturers)
That said - what is so special about CR - can you give some pointers about what could go wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Ford does not recommend any additives for diesel, it is clearly written in the manual.
1. As Anil said, Figo Diesel manual does not recommend any additives. System G is recommended specifically for petrol though.
2. Tata has a tie-up with BP for co branded versions of system D with both Tata and BP logos etc. Still my Manza's manual says no additives to Diesel. It's recommended for other tata cars (non crdi one's).

I am not sure about the recommendation of other CRDI OEM's, but mostly as I have read, it's a no. The thread below is the right place to look for technical answers and discuss this further. I am not fully aware of technical reason for this but can think of two logical reasons:

1. Fuel injectors getting clogged instead of getting cleaned. I think the injectors have very fine holes in case of CRDi and pressure is very high (>=1350bar?)
2. Diesel filter is sophisticated (hence expensive) and may filter out the additives and get choked.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...es-thread.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel lover View Post
Today, ran the car for the first time in test mode and made some observations regarding coolant/engine temperature.

The first start of the day at around 5 in the evening: 36 C

Temperature reaches to around 83-85 C with A/C on within 3 mins and hovers around there while driving.

If standing at traffic lights with A/C on temp reaches 88 C, then reduces to normal range of 83-85 C upon driving again.

But what worries me is that w/o A/C, during crawling traffic for a minute and then stopping for 3 mins after that, temp reaches 96 C. I open the hood and find that the radiator fan isn't working. After that I switch off the engine. Is this high temp normal? The high temperature warning lamp doesn't glow during this hit to 96 C. Although I believe that this indeed is quite high.

Suggestions are welcome.
As Vina mentioned, this is a perfectly normal behavior. With AC the fan(s) run continuously to dissipate the AC condenser heat. That helps to dissipate the radiator heat as well. W/o AC the fan will come on when temp hits the set mark. Not sure about the Figo but in my manza that's set to be on at slow speed at 99'C. 104'C is the mark for high speed fan running (both fans, manza has 2). So 96 does not seem that much, does it? I would expect the warning light on dashboard (with infamous chimes!) to come only after >108'C. I think, anything below that should be a fairly normal running temp (depending on conditions).
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Old 24th July 2011, 15:12   #4924
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

The main problem of using premium diesel, or fuel additives constantly on the long run is, Fuel Pump getting clogged. Most of the diesels I know which have been running on premium fuel constantly, have had this issue.

However, its fine, and does more good, when you use it, per 2-3 tankfuls.
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Old 24th July 2011, 15:55   #4925
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
1. As Anil said, Figo Diesel manual does not recommend any additives. System G is recommended specifically for petrol though.
2. Tata has a tie-up with BP for co branded versions of system D with both Tata and BP logos etc. Still my Manza's manual says no additives to Diesel. It's recommended for other tata cars (non crdi one's).
Well the workshop guys recommended it - I haven't checked the manual though I myself don't remember any recommendation to use or not use any additive (I do remember it says biodiesel blend is allowed - don't remember the percentage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
I am not sure about the recommendation of other CRDI OEM's, but mostly as I have read, it's a no. The thread below is the right place to look for technical answers and discuss this further. I am not fully aware of technical reason for this but can think of two logical reasons:

1. Fuel injectors getting clogged instead of getting cleaned. I think the injectors have very fine holes in case of CRDi and pressure is very high (>=1350bar?)
2. Diesel filter is sophisticated (hence expensive) and may filter out the additives and get choked.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...es-thread.html
...

I don't think fiters can get rid of additives - most of them dissolve into diesel, the particle size that results is so small if filters are filtering that then filter will have to be HUGE to allow any diesel flow. But I'm not sure - this can happen.

Also barring gumming, the injector is unlikely to be clogged due to diesel additives - the amount is too small and injectors' clearance is more than that of fuel filters, so fuel filters will most likely stop the stuff in the first place, and also the CR pressure is so huge (peak pressure on Figo's system can be as high as 2000bar, even during idlins it is several hundred bars, compared to less than 20bar in the cylinder) any obstructing stuff should be forced out.


The link you have sent has a lot of posts that say "this will happen" "that will happen" without specifying exactly how. Given the DPF thing above, I think we can agree that you can not be sure of pure beliefs unless there is a credible explanation for them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
The main problem of using premium diesel, or fuel additives constantly on the long run is, Fuel Pump getting clogged. Most of the diesels I know which have been running on premium fuel constantly, have had this issue.
That may be possible - but the question is how?

BTW related question - how is the fuel pump lubricated? I mean the injectors have (relatively) tiny moving elements, and the precision is excellent and motion range small (plunger moves only about 0.05mm) - so very expensive materials can be used to make moving parts such that friction and wear/tear may not be a problem.

But in Fuel Pump the range of motion is large - and forces generated are huge. More likely than not you do need lubrication. How does the fuel pump get its lubrication then?



EDIT:

are the "premium diesel" mixtures at least as good as regular diesel? Because if they are not, then they can damage the fuel pump, additive or no additive.

Last edited by vina : 24th July 2011 at 16:17.
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Old 24th July 2011, 16:44   #4926
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
I think the temperature should hover around 84 degree Celsius. Please make sure that your radiator fan is working. The fan is supposed to turn on when you switch on the a/c (When the compressor is on). If its not doing so please avoid using the a/c and go straight to your a.s.s.
When the compressor is on, the fan always turns on (touchwood). But when A/C is not put in use, then the fan remained off even at 96 C. That was the max temp that was achieved after I switched off the engine. It might have risen more had I waited for some more time although I have never seen it working w/o A/C.

As @amit1234singla mentions in his post above, 96 C isn't much a temperature to worry about.
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Old 24th July 2011, 21:11   #4927
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by Diesel lover View Post
When the compressor is on, the fan always turns on (touchwood). But when A/C is not put in use, then the fan remained off even at 96 C. That was the max temp that was achieved after I switched off the engine. It might have risen more had I waited for some more time although I have never seen it working w/o A/C.

As @amit1234singla mentions in his post above, 96 C isn't much a temperature to worry about.
In most modern cars there are two cooling fans, one that is connected to the engine cooling system and located in the center of the radiator. The second one is for the aircon system and located in the middle of the condensor. The two function independent of each other. The one that you may be observing would be the one meant for the air con system. The temperature gauge shows the engine coolant temperature and the air con fan has nothing to do it.

The radiator and the condensor look similar except that the radiator itself would have a more frontal and central location and will be bigger of the two. The radiator fan is larger in dia. and is usually hidden under a hooded enclosure. One can hear it come on at the end of a drive when sitting inside we switch of the aircon but the engine is still running and the cooling fan comes on to compensate for the sudden lack of air that was flowing across the radiator due to the the forward motion of the vehicle which is now stationary.
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Old 24th July 2011, 21:33   #4928
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
In most modern cars there are two cooling fans, one that is connected to the engine cooling system and located in the center of the radiator. The second one is for the aircon system and located in the middle of the condensor. The two function independent of each other. The one that you may be observing would be the one meant for the air con system. The temperature gauge shows the engine coolant temperature and the air con fan has nothing to do it.

The radiator and the condensor look similar except that the radiator itself would have a more frontal and central location and will be bigger of the two. The radiator fan is larger in dia. and is usually hidden under a hooded enclosure. One can hear it come on at the end of a drive when sitting inside we switch of the aircon but the engine is still running and the cooling fan comes on to compensate for the sudden lack of air that was flowing across the radiator due to the the forward motion of the vehicle which is now stationary.
Do all cars have two fans? Ideally that would be what you would do, but I know it for a fact that M800AC has only one fan that does both the jobs.

AFAIK Figo also has only one fan too (the larger radiator fan), though I'm not certain about this - call it cost cutting, or optimisation whichever you prefer.

Last edited by vina : 24th July 2011 at 21:35. Reason: correcting typo
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Old 24th July 2011, 21:45   #4929
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

@vina

I did say modern cars and then again preceded that with the word 'most'.

M800 AC is not a modern car but an old relic that has been adapted to survive in the present. Further the heating load from the aircon system governs the need to have a dedicated cooling fan and maybe the 800s does not require one or as I said old design.

You can check under the bonnet of the Figo for the number of fans and once you are sure of the count you can come back and share the information here.

Maybe the second fan was one the things that was done away with as a cost cutting measure and the design(s) of the condensor or the entire cooling system itself was optimized. From Diesel lovers post above it is clear that there is a fan which is governed by the switching on/off of the air con system.
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Old 24th July 2011, 21:48   #4930
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Do all cars have two fans? Ideally that would be what you would do, but I know it for a fact that M800AC has only one fan that does both the jobs.

AFAIK Figo also has only one fan too (the larger radiator fan), though I'm not certain about this - call it cost cutting, or optimisation whichever you prefer.
yes figo has just one fan for both the radiator and a/c. I guess necessity of two fans arises over the convection requirements of the radiator/condenser.
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Old 24th July 2011, 21:50   #4931
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
...

Maybe the second fan was one the things that was done away with as a cost cutting measure and the design(s) of the condensor or the entire cooling system itself was optimized. From Diesel lovers post above it is clear that there is a fan which is governed by the switching on/off of the air con system.

Well, my M800AC is not a modern car by any stretch of imagination

From what I have read on this thread earlier, the same fan acts as both a radiator and AC fan (somebody else did the looking under the bonnet thing) - it is a two speed fan he claimed - read the post when I was researching the car so can't be sure now.

I'll look when I get back home - travelling right now without the Figo.


By the way, even Figo is not modern by any stretch of imagination - the engine tech is 9 yrs old at least
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Old 25th July 2011, 19:23   #4932
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

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In most modern cars there are two cooling fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Do all cars have two fans?
Hey Khoj, These days, small cars come with multiple speeds, rather than multiple fans. However, for higher capacity engines, you are right. Most come with two fans. But, I think most of the hatches have just one fan with multiple speeds. My IKON has one fan with three speeds.
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Old 26th July 2011, 00:20   #4933
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

I while idling put the temp control knob at 9'o clock position & fan at no.1 position (it stays at no.1 position throughout with two on board) and some times switch off the A/C, helps to be paranoid
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Old 26th July 2011, 06:25   #4934
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and also a proud owner of a 11 month old Figo TDCI titanium. I am facing an issue with car from the day one. From about the time i had completed the first service i am hearing a small sound from the driver suspension/steering column area. It is more like a rumbling or it is like something is loose. When i fall into ditches with sharp edges theres a loud thud too from the front suspension. I gave the car for check ups at kairali ford Cochin and they couldn't find anything wrong with car. I though it it was in my head and tried to live with it. As time went by the noise stared increasing and now there's a very distinct sound from the same area when you drive through uneven roads and i tried taking the car to the SC and they still cannot find whats wrong with the car. They tried changing the connecting rods and the usual stuff and still the noise remains. Have anyone else faced this same issue and got it sorted? Please help.
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Old 26th July 2011, 13:20   #4935
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Default re: Review: 1st-gen Ford Figo (2010)

Price of Figo has gone up and many features have been stipped down. Zxi has lost its electric mirrors, defoggers and rear wipers. Similarly, Exi loses the music system. Confirmed from dealers and sources within Ford.
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