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Old 26th May 2010, 17:44   #181
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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Service Manager, Mr. James from Whitefield Honda called me now and spoke to me for the last 2 hours.

Earlier, the lady to whom I gave the service feedback made the same SA call me. That was the end to it. I don't think they took my complaint seriously and nothing happened after that. Heeding Jayanth's opinion, I posted my service feedback in Honda website and then there was some impact. Thanks Jayanth.

Mr. James profusely apologized and volunteered to refund the difference amount (diff between synthetic and mineral oil) which I had spent, because I was not given the right information. Replied that I am looking for genuine and reliable services and not money. He promised to attend my car personally at least for the next service.It seems Mr james itself is a Tbhp-ian and an expert in car engines, who clarifies doubts in Team bhp, whenever he has time.

Now, below is some of the info on synthetic oil. This would be useful for other TBhp-ians, who are confused about making a decision on engine oil type:

1) Honda delivers a new car with mineral oil only. Period.
2) Synthetic oil is used in aircraft engines which operate long time under high engine tempratures
3) If synthetic oil is used, the residues which get accumulated in the engine over a long period of time (say 2 lac kms) will be much less when compared to mineral oil
4) There zero difference in mileage just because synthetic oil is used
5) Irrespective of the type of oil, as per Honda's mandate, the engine oil had to be replaced every 5000 kms.
Thanks a ton Biju, but I would expect the answer from Honda rather than dealer too. As I don't belive them anymore.

I remember reading in the manual some extreme conditions mentioned

> Lower distance travel
> Extreme hot/cold Conditions

And so on, don't remember exactly in such a case the intervals for oil change has to be discussed with dealer. Iam not sure whether lower distance (less than 8km a trip) is to be considered as a bad/good condition.

Can you ask Honda (not the dealer) the same to clarify?

Last edited by raghu230506 : 26th May 2010 at 17:47.
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Old 26th May 2010, 17:58   #182
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Default Oil Change

Yeh Biju,

I took a snap of it earlier and it's lying in my PC, find it attached. Iam just curious to know the outcome.

Find the manual sheet:
Attached Thumbnails
Dream comes true -- Silver Honda City AT comes home-dsc_0685.jpg  

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Old 26th May 2010, 18:02   #183
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Originally Posted by joecherian View Post
Thanks Biju. That clears a lot of air around the confusion between synth & mineral oil as far as ANHC is concerned. (I am sure Honda will have a different reasoning for other cars from their stable until some one like you confronts them )?
Yes Joe. Jayanth's URL (for writing feedback to Honda) was the trigger. He predicted that Whitefield Honda's service dept will hush up my complaint which surprisingly turned out to be true. While collecting routine service feedback, if you crib, SA will be made to call you again and Whitefield Honda will then promptly close the chapter in their records, writing you off as a disillusoned customer. Same incident will be replayed to some other poor soul. Bootom line is -- "You are heard by Whitefield Honda only if Honda hear you".


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Originally Posted by joecherian View Post
So are you planning to switch back to mineral oil next time? If am not wrong, that would require an engine flush (to remove traces of synthetic oil and then filling up with mineral oil right ?)
Can any experts comment on this aspect of switching back to mineral from synth version ?
Yes. I will switch back from synthetic to mineral next time. I am not going to operate my car at high altitudes at high engine tempratures, as that of an airplane . Neither do I mind having some more residual stuff accumulated in my engine when it is opened after 2 lac kms.

Last edited by B103 : 26th May 2010 at 18:22.
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:14   #184
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Originally Posted by raghu230506 View Post
Yeh Biju,

I took a snap of it earlier and it's lying in my PC, find it attached. Iam just curious to know the outcome.

Find the manual sheet:
I will try to cross check with Honda if I get a chance. I got an email from Jim Marvyn, Customer Relationship Management, Honda Siel Cars India Ltd expressing regret on my feedback and promising a call from the dealer, to sort this out.

However, this email looks cursory and appears to me as a general response to a negative feedback. I can try sending your question to the id from which I received the response.

Last edited by B103 : 26th May 2010 at 18:22.
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Old 27th May 2010, 09:16   #185
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i Got the call back from Honda not Dealer, and their company engineers has confirmed Oil change is for 6 months/5000km regardless of being mineral or synthetic. And the grade being used is 0W30.
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Old 27th May 2010, 09:27   #186
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Originally Posted by shamanth View Post
i Got the call back from Honda not Dealer, and their company engineers has confirmed Oil change is for 6 months/5000km regardless of being mineral or synthetic. And the grade being used is 0W30.
Thanks Shamanth,

next service Iam switching back to Mineral, as there are no really improvements apart from engine getting smoother.

Cheers
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Old 27th May 2010, 10:04   #187
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He told And you can bring any engine oil of your choice during servicing we will use it without any question just that oil rating is 0w40. But replacing at every 6 months or 5000 kms is must.
This is another example of inconsistent information passed across to the customers. I had a big debate on this a month back, even called the Honda One-2-One and the answer was If I need to change to Synthetic, I should stick to Honda Synthetic only and if I get my own choice (say Mobil 1), then Honda will not fill it for me and I need to fill it my self. Atrocious..I would request all T-BHPians and all you know who owns Honda's, make sure not to trust the dealers for any information provided, if found faulty, call Honda and inform.

Biju, good job on giving good piece of information on mineral and synthetic.
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Old 27th May 2010, 11:22   #188
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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Mr. James profusely apologized and volunteered to refund the difference amount (diff between synthetic and mineral oil) which I had spent, because I was not given the right information. Replied that I am looking for genuine and reliable services and not money. He promised to attend my car personally at least for the next service.It seems Mr james itself is a Tbhp-ian and an expert in car engines, who clarifies doubts in Team bhp, whenever he has time.

Now, below is some of the info on synthetic oil. This would be useful for other TBhp-ians, who are confused about making a decision on engine oil type:

1) Honda delivers a new car with mineral oil only. Period.
2) Synthetic oil is used in aircraft engines which operate long time under high engine tempratures
3) If synthetic oil is used, the residues which get accumulated in the engine over a long period of time (say 2 lac kms) will be much less when compared to mineral oil
4) There zero difference in mileage just because synthetic oil is used
5) Irrespective of the type of oil, as per Honda's mandate, the engine oil had to be replaced every 5000 kms.
Disclaimer: I am not knowledgeable about engines and transmissions and all that stuff under the hood but this is what I know (mostly old wives tales).

1. It is NOT advisable to use Synthetic oil in a car for the first 10,000 kms. This is becuase Mineral oils are better absorbed by the seals and gaskets and for breakig in of engines where the additiona friction of mineral oils aids in causing that little bit of wear that helps a car break-in.

2. When changing from MIneral to Synthetic flush the engine. I'd do the flush twice (read below). This is bcause I am told that Synthetic oils can loosen dirt left by the mineral oils and this dirt can be left floating in the synthetic oil.

That said Syntetics have better flow (nicer for cold starts), better themal stability (nicer for those who like to push their engines to 5000rpm+), etc..all the good stuff that you engine-vengine types already know.

I use synthetics in my cars. I use Mobil 1 now (as my cars have done their 10,000km) but did not trust my Honda or Skoda dealer to use the oil that I supply so did my oil change at another garage (the day after the car was returned from the dealer's 10K service).

Yes I was charged twice for the oil (once by the dealer and 2nd time for Mobil 1 but I consdiered the dealer oil change as an oil flush). Before changing to Mobil 1 I asked the garage to flush one more time. Now that my cars are "on Mobil 1" I request the dealer not to change any oil (during routine service calls) as I am using Mobil 1 and not their house brand. I change my oil every 10K (only becuase 10K is an easier number to remember than 7K or 8K usually recommended). My cars are not driven hard so I am not worried. If you drive you cars hard (rev higher, pull heavy loads like a trailer, do a lot of hill climbing, etc.. change every 5K, that's what I would do).
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Old 27th May 2010, 14:58   #189
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This is another example of inconsistent information passed across to the customers. I had a big debate on this a month back, even called the Honda One-2-One and the answer was If I need to change to Synthetic, I should stick to Honda Synthetic only and if I get my own choice (say Mobil 1), then Honda will not fill it for me and I need to fill it my self. Atrocious..I would request all T-BHPians and all you know who owns Honda's, make sure not to trust the dealers for any information provided, if found faulty, call Honda and inform.

Biju, good job on giving good piece of information on mineral and synthetic.
Jayanth, When Mr james called me, he told me that Whitefield Honda does not benefit financially by filling in synthetic oil in my car -- which is 3 times costly.

He told me that I can bring in any oil which matches the specification 0W40 (or 0W30 -- I don't remember well) and they will fill that oil for my car. That is contradicting what honda had told Jayanth -- that they wil change only if it's Honda's own oil.
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Old 27th May 2010, 15:03   #190
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
I request the dealer not to change any oil (during routine service calls) as I am using Mobil 1 and not their house brand. I change my oil every 10K (only becuase 10K is an easier number to remember than 7K or 8K usually recommended). My cars are not driven hard so I am not worried. If you drive you cars hard (rev higher, pull heavy loads like a trailer, do a lot of hill climbing, etc.. change every 5K, that's what I would do).
Thanks Navin. Many of us would have continued with synthetic oil if it is to changed only after 10,000 kms, as you are doing.

However, Honda cars are under 2+2 year warranty and the car has to be serviced with an authorized dealer once in 6 months to retain that warranty. It is a clause in fine print.

Once the car is taken for servicing, we will be asked to change the oil as the next service is going to be another 6 months away. Once the warranty period ends, we can switch to Mobil1 (fully synthetic) and then replace the oil once in 10,000 kms which is cost effective and beneficial.

Last edited by B103 : 27th May 2010 at 15:05.
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Old 28th May 2010, 11:03   #191
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Default Call from Honda one-to-one

A lady from Honda One-to-One called me yesterday evening. She checked if someone from dealer got in touch with me and whether I am satisfied with whatever evolved after that discussion.

I confirmed to her that service manager in WF Honda got in touch with me. I told her that I am OK to forget and write-off this incident if the forthcoming services are done well, as promised in the meeting with dealer. She affirmed that it would be taken good care of next time.

I felt she sounded rather relieved to have finally resolved the stalemate. Let us see.

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Old 28th May 2010, 11:37   #192
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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
Thanks Navin. Many of us would have continued with synthetic oil if it is to changed only after 10,000 kms, as you are doing.

However, Honda cars are under 2+2 year warranty and the car has to be serviced with an authorized dealer once in 6 months to retain that warranty. It is a clause in fine print.

Once the car is taken for servicing, we will be asked to change the oil as the next service is going to be another 6 months away. Once the warranty period ends, we can switch to Mobil1 (fully synthetic) and then replace the oil once in 10,000 kms which is cost effective and beneficial.
I am really surprised to note that Honda continues to recommend drain intervals of 5K kms or 6 intercal month with their newer car engines..my OHC had the same.

When Toyota other car mfrs have a drain interval of 10K kms (or ever 15K) or 1 year, I wonder why Honda is bucking this trend. This makes for high cost and frequency of maintenance, rare in a modern car, and lines the pockets of their dealers and obviously Honda itself. It also makes for owner inconvenience!

That said, I would really not extend the drain interval on synthetic beyond what is recommended by Honda to justify the cost. For cost effective oil changes best to stick with mineral. There's a lot more on the synthetic and mineral oils right here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...ml#post1909529 (ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil)

Regards,
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Old 28th May 2010, 11:50   #193
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I am really surprised to note that Honda continues to recommend drain intervals of 5K kms or 6 intercal month with their newer car engines..my OHC had the same.

When Toyota other car mfrs have a drain interval of 10K kms (or ever 15K) or 1 year, I wonder why Honda is bucking this trend. This makes for high cost and frequency of maintenance, rare in a modern car, and lines the pockets of their dealers and obviously Honda itself. It also makes for owner inconvenience!

Regards,
That is true. New K-series engines from Maruti needs to have the engine oil replacement only once in a year or 10,000 kms. This is indeed an advantage in terms of both time and money. Se the article: Maruti Suzuki unveils second K-series engine

I remember some other car manufactures also had similar engines. These engines incorporate the next generation design. I am not sure if Honda has to do some catching up here ? Experts please comment.

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Old 28th May 2010, 13:03   #194
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Adding to this just see the free services interval on the ANHC
1st service 1 month from purchase
2nd Service 3 months from purchase
3rd Service 6 months from purchase.
This wraps up the free services within 6 months of purchase and that too with 2 oil changes at 2nd and 3rd service.
I wrote about it on the feedback form i got from Honda. Haven't heard from them about it.
When i went for 1st service i saw one SA telling a customer saying
Sir we had to fill the gas in AC, the customer asked was there a leak, to which he replied No. How can the gas go away without there being a leak in the AC assembly.

But i have set the guys at my dealership at Classic Honda straight. The accessories guy is a friend while the Customer care lady calls up every 15 days or so asking how the car is doing. As a result i have given them good feedback in the ORG survey call i got from Honda one week after i purchased ANHC. Afterall i am spoilt Maruti customer who wants the same sort of service from Honda. Whenever there is some issue i just quote about my experiences with Maruti, and the look on the SA's face is worth capturing on a cam.

Stingy Honda, wake up here comes the Etios, Polo sedan and Altis diesel.
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Old 28th May 2010, 13:29   #195
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3 services in the interval of 6 months, huh! this isn't doing any justice to the fact that reliability is the word associated to Honda. What does this mean? Does it mean that the cars are vulnarable for repairs and safe to set 5k or 3months as service period? or simply to make money (Which they would've already made by pricing the cars higher than the competition). While this was not enough, they want us to change the engine oil every 5000 Kms. Gosh! what is going on here? Lot of other car companies are lining up in competition to offer 15k as service interval period, our 'H' logos are saying 5k? You said it right Zoom_Vroom, if Honda doesn't wake up, they will be swallowed soon by competition. For now face the exploitation.
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