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Old 2nd June 2010, 10:43   #316
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post


Said it like it is, man. Perfectly modulating the throttle at low revvs takes some getting used to. Thumbs down to this throttle damping nonsense.
So can ECU remap/after market ECU be a solution to overcome this ? Or an FFE made to boost low rpm power is also required ?
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Old 2nd June 2010, 13:37   #317
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Here is something for you GTO

Modified Civic–>with Scissor doors@Goa | Goa On Wheels

Looks simply amazing!! Wonder if he is a tbhp member?
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Old 3rd June 2010, 12:46   #318
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Is there a link between low idling RPM and low throttle response?
Not really. I don't see any relation between the idling rpm, and power delivery at low revvs. Even if you increase the idling revvs to say 1,000, the power delivery from 1,500 - 2,000 won't increase, will it?

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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty decent stretch of road for my daily commute. 12-13kms of 'halka' traffic with 80-90kmph steady speeds possible. Of course, I do tend to extend those possibilities
The days that I leave really early for work, its a heck of a drive. But its more the exception rather than the rule. Lucky you.

Quote:
typing this from the showroom/workshop while getting the 1st service done. 1200kms in 3 weeks.
That was quick! Enjoy your Civic, Shuvc. She'll serve you well for a long time to come.

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Originally Posted by s3va View Post
So can ECU remap/after market ECU be a solution to overcome this ? Or an FFE made to boost low rpm power is also required ?
For sure. Greddy headers made a world of difference to my Vtec's low rpm response. The same aren't possible for the Civic, though I'm pretty sure the following will lead to a drastic improvement at sub-2000 rpm throttle responses:

- Air intake with custom plumbing
- Free flow exhaust (sans headers) designed with low end power delivery in mind
- Remap / Piggyback custom-tuned for the same.

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Originally Posted by surd_biker View Post
Here is something for you GTO
Thanks Surd_Biker. But making structural changes to the car is really not my thing.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 12:54   #319
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OK I have a confession to make - after driving my Civic for 2 days now, I do feel that Civic has poor initial throttle response, especially when compared to my old Optra 1.8. I didn't catch this bit in my test drive.

Basically, at low speeds driving in the city, I need to be in one gear lower than in the Optra.

GTO - when will you be modding your Civic to improve on the intial lag? Any idea what percentage FE will we be losing after the mod, approximately?
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Old 3rd June 2010, 17:09   #320
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
OK I have a confession to make - after driving my Civic for 2 days now, I do feel that Civic has poor initial throttle response, especially when compared to my old Optra 1.8. I didn't catch this bit in my test drive.
Welcome aboard, Smartcat!

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when will you be modding your Civic to improve on the intial lag? Any idea what percentage FE will we be losing after the mod, approximately?
Soon, very soon. With an exhaust & intake alone, the low rpm throttle response should improve dramatically. Best part about these mods is, if you drive the same way, there is no impact on FE.

Easier said than done though. With a sweet sounding exhaust on a revv-happy engine, good luck driving below 5,000 rpms
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Old 3rd June 2010, 18:52   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
For sure. Greddy headers made a world of difference to my Vtec's low rpm response. The same aren't possible for the Civic, though I'm pretty sure the following will lead to a drastic improvement at sub-2000 rpm throttle responses:

- Air intake with custom plumbing
- Free flow exhaust (sans headers) designed with low end power delivery in mind
- Remap / Piggyback custom-tuned for the same.
Hi GTO. A colleague of mine is frustrated with the throttle response of the Civic in slow moving city traffic. He does not have the nerve to void his warranty by installing an FFE or doing a remap. How much relief will installing just the air intake provide? And are you planning to do your mods in a staggered manner or all three at the same time? If it's the former, can you do the intake mod first and provide us your feedback. And will this intake mod that you are talking about result in a 'whoooosh' sound.

Last edited by Gilead : 3rd June 2010 at 18:55.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 20:24   #322
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
There are two reasons for the low torque down the rev range.

One is the i-VTEC system which makes this effectively a three valve engine (the intake being cut down to single valve), choking it for higher economy. The normal rather highly strung tuning compensates slightly, but with our detuned Civics, you can really feel the engine gasping for air until the switchover point sometime after 3000RPM.
The R18 does not have this feature AFAIK. Even if it did, its purpose is to improve low rpm throttle response not to hurt it.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:35   #323
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Rush, have you put her on the dyno yet ?
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:44   #324
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
There are two reasons for the low torque down the rev range.
Is this low torque at the bottom end true for AT as well? Or does the torque converter masks it a bit?
I find ANHC AT to be extremely responsive and lively in the city traffic. I am comparing this with Fusion 1.6 which I used to drive, and was slightly sluggish bellow 1500 rpms.
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Old 7th June 2010, 21:21   #325
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GTO,
You seem to have started an epidemic of sorts. I am kinda finalising a Aug 2006 model that has a genuine 18K odd kms.
I will getting the car checked at Solitaire Honda tomorrow and if all goes well I will settle for it.

I have more or less negotiated for 7L, which is wee bit on the higher side but the car is excellent.

Cheers
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Old 7th June 2010, 21:42   #326
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GTO, you certainly have. As and when I sell my Baleno, I too will start hunting for a used civic.

@Hiren- It's a good price for a car with that low a mileage, some may argue that it's about 10k extra but if it's a clean piece then you've got a good deal.
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Old 7th June 2010, 21:53   #327
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Originally Posted by sukrit7 View Post
GTO, you certainly have. As and when I sell my Baleno, I too will start hunting for a used civic.

@Hiren- It's a good price for a car with that low a mileage, some may argue that it's about 10k extra but if it's a clean piece then you've got a good deal.
My sentiments exactly and its the color I've been lusting after. So its all the more sweet.
Getting the car checked tomorrow, so fingers crossed.
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Old 8th June 2010, 10:37   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
How much relief will installing just the air intake provide?
CPH says that a well designed CAI can noticeably improve low rpm throttle response. I'm going to request for his inputs in the design.

Quote:
And are you planning to do your mods in a staggered manner or all three at the same time?
One by one.

Quote:
And will this intake mod that you are talking about result in a 'whoooosh' sound.
Yeah! That's the beauty of it

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Originally Posted by toiingg View Post
Rush, have you put her on the dyno yet ?
No. Wanted to press a couple of high-revving miles on her before the dyno. Again, the previous owner never took the car over 3,000 rpms. Therefore, I've scheduled the dyno after 5,000 kms of my style of driving (3,000 up already).

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Is this low torque at the bottom end true for AT as well?
The AT completely masks the low torque problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiren.mistry View Post
You seem to have started an epidemic of sorts. I am kinda finalising a Aug 2006 model that has a genuine 18K odd kms.
Nice . I hope you are able to seal the deal, and look forward to your ownership thread.

BTW, I'm wishing that I've started an epidemic for all kinds of used cars (NOT just Civics!!).
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Old 8th June 2010, 11:51   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Hey I just discovered that idle RPM in the Civic is just 750 RPM. Is there a link between low idling RPM and low throttle response? If I recall correctly, my Optra had an idle RPM of close to 900 - 1000. Perhaps increasing the idling RPM of the Civic by a mechanic could help?
Your average mechanic cannot change the idle RPM of the Civic. It has no IACV valve and the associated adjustments. It's all done by DBW by the ECU. You'll need to reflash the ECU to change this.

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Originally Posted by s3va View Post
So can ECU remap/after market ECU be a solution to overcome this ? Or an FFE made to boost low rpm power is also required ?
Mods and a retune to take advantage of said mods is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
The R18 does not have this feature AFAIK. Even if it did, its purpose is to improve low rpm throttle response not to hurt it.
FlashPro Help

Doug specifically said that the R18's ECU does do this. It's purpose is to improve economy. You see, the engine in it's normal form doesn't really feel bad in the low end even with all these muzzles. But whoever detuned the car for India did very little to compensate for what they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Is this low torque at the bottom end true for AT as well? Or does the torque converter masks it a bit?
I find ANHC AT to be extremely responsive and lively in the city traffic. I am comparing this with Fusion 1.6 which I used to drive, and was slightly sluggish bellow 1500 rpms.
The torque converter compensates very well. You have a wall of torque stored in the torque converter that you can unleash whenever you want.

@GTO : If you are getting a custom intake, please make sure it keeps the stock MAF housing or your A/F ratios will go for a toss.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 8th June 2010 at 11:53.
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Old 8th June 2010, 12:55   #330
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
For sure. Greddy headers made a world of difference to my Vtec's low rpm response. The same aren't possible for the Civic, though I'm pretty sure the following will lead to a drastic improvement at sub-2000 rpm throttle responses:

- Air intake with custom plumbing
- Free flow exhaust (sans headers) designed with low end power delivery in mind
- Remap / Piggyback custom-tuned for the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Your average mechanic cannot change the idle RPM of the Civic. It has no IACV valve and the associated adjustments. It's all done by DBW by the ECU. You'll need to reflash the ECU to change this.



Mods and a retune to take advantage of said mods is required.
My question was, without a FFE or Headers, cant a simple re-tune of the ECU take care of the low rpm issue ? The point where I am coming from is quite simple and basic. I too face this issue, though on a smaller scale relative to the power outputs of a Civic, in my AVEO 1.4. Now going back to my earlier days, I used to get my petrol/air mixture tuned by my mechanic on my Shogun as per my requirements, either performance or FE centric. Cant something sort of this be possible with the cars where the Bhp has been controlled by the ECU due to FE and other norms ? I am still a noob trying to get hold of things, so do ignore if this sounds silly !
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