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Old 30th March 2010, 17:45   #46
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They sure do. However, manufacturers offlate (especially the ones known for high maintenance) are pushing the oil change envelope, purely for marketing reasons.
I agree. The Fiesta TDCi has a 5K interval, but the Figo has a 10K interval. Since they both share the same engine and other internals, it's fairly obvious that the Marketing dept had a big say in the oil change intervals for the Figo. Or it's also possible that the Fiesta can do 10K as well, but they won't say so because they will lose out on service $.

20K interval between oil change is insane. Stick to 1 year/10K at the most.
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Old 30th March 2010, 19:10   #47
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Hi,

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Us enthusiasts care about our cars more than the average Joe, and thus would be proactive with the most basic maintenance (i.e. oil changes).

Sorry, I care about my cars way too much to wait for 20,000 kms before an oil change.
I fully respect your sentiments.

But then I seem to be the 'average Joe' here, and I really don't mind it.

I can take a risk on my own car, can't I?
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Old 30th March 2010, 21:23   #48
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Yes, I am also inclined to follow what the owners manual says to the T, I haven't gone wrong yet by following the manufacturers recommendations in my thirty years of driving and I don't think I'm gonna go wrong this time around....
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Originally Posted by trrk View Post
But then I seem to be the 'average Joe' here, and I really don't mind it. I can take a risk on my own car, can't I?
Fully agree with you guys and I'm an 'average Joe' too. I too go by the manufacturer's recommendations and sometimes stretch that as well, using my own sense of what is required. My late father's '59 Ambassador (still with us) has clocked 200,000+ miles and the engine+gearbox have never been opened. I had bought a brand new Volvo 244 in the 80s that travelled 398,000 kms before I sold her - powerplant never opened again. The new owner kept in touch till 4.5 lakh kms on the odo and she was still going strong! Forget the loveless 10,000 or 20,000 drain intervals, these are just two examples of our cars where the lubricants would be drained not necessarily by the manual, but by the viscosity of the oil - a common practice in the 'earlier' days. I guess we were enthusiasts also, no? Most of us those days could also wield a mean spanner too, and could trick out our cars with ingenuity rather than resorting to something by Pete!!

Coming back to the present, my Zen has clocked close to a Lakh km, still feels new, returns a stupendous mileage, can outrace (occasionaly when the irritants get the better of my good sense) many of the enthusiasts' cars running FFEs, K&Ns, Petes, etc. and I have often changed the oil (mineral) at way beyond the recommended 5000kms. My Palio 1.6 GTX also feels like new at 78000kms, although some may consider it to have been ill-treated too.

Many of my cars have had oil changes between the 5-10,000 kms I guess, in the days when we only had mineral lubes. I see no harm in draining the synthetic stuff at 20,000km if the manufacturer has found it good enough to recommend so, provided the oil still 'feels good to the touch'.
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:28   #49
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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Fully agree with you guys and I'm an 'average Joe' too. I too go by the manufacturer's recommendations and sometimes stretch that as well, using my own sense of what is required. My late father's '59 Ambassador (still with us) has clocked 200,000+ miles and the engine+gearbox have never been opened. I had bought a brand new Volvo 244 in the 80s that travelled 398,000 kms before I sold her - powerplant never opened again. The new owner kept in touch till 4.5 lakh kms on the odo and she was still going strong! Forget the loveless 10,000 or 20,000 drain intervals, these are just two examples of our cars where the lubricants would be drained not necessarily by the manual, but by the viscosity of the oil - a common practice in the 'earlier' days. I guess we were enthusiasts also, no? Most of us those days could also wield a mean spanner too, and could trick out our cars with ingenuity rather than resorting to something by Pete!!

Coming back to the present, my Zen has clocked close to a Lakh km, still feels new, returns a stupendous mileage, can outrace (occasionaly when the irritants get the better of my good sense) many of the enthusiasts' cars running FFEs, K&Ns, Petes, etc. and I have often changed the oil (mineral) at way beyond the recommended 5000kms. My Palio 1.6 GTX also feels like new at 78000kms, although some may consider it to have been ill-treated too.

Many of my cars have had oil changes between the 5-10,000 kms I guess, in the days when we only had mineral lubes. I see no harm in draining the synthetic stuff at 20,000km if the manufacturer has found it good enough to recommend so, provided the oil still 'feels good to the touch'.
Agreed with most of the things you said, would just like to add that engines in India tend to have a hard time because of the lack of good roads, harsh climate, dust etc..

The 'feels good to the touch' is a very good test (I believe you also implied the way the oil looked), but one has to know a little bit about cars in order to do so. I trust most bhpians to be able to do that.
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Old 1st April 2010, 08:27   #50
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Agreed with most of the things you said, would just like to add that engines in India tend to have a hard time because of the lack of good roads, harsh climate, dust etc..

The 'feels good to the touch' is a very good test (I believe you also implied the way the oil looked), but one has to know a little bit about cars in order to do so. I trust most bhpians to be able to do that.
+1 to that. feel testing the oil the old way is probably the best test of an oil change.
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Old 1st April 2010, 08:49   #51
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Free service Update :

Had booked the service on thurusday and they told me to get the baby at 9 on a sunday. Took her to Concorde Diary circle at 9. Didn't do the "oil change" got rid of all the mud flaps bought a set of new ones. Akhil@bengaluru bro you are so right Concorde accessories are one amongst the worst.
Almost nothing to do at the free service (fortunately/unfortunately).? Routine wash some polishing of the interiors,some checks here and there. 2 hours + later got a call informing me to collect the car. Strangely we were still close by (wife was finding ways to stretch my credit card bills at star hypermarket) and i was wondering why women find it hard to let me buy that i-phone but can easily spend 5k on clothes.
Raced to the showroom and had to wait for around 45 min before i could take her out.Was watching IPL highlights at the waiting lounge. And used the time to catch up with fellow Manza owners. Finally after what seemed to be like (a wait forever) got her back. Neat job with the wash. Service advisor told me about some routine changes was too busy to hear him out.Filled out the customer feedback form and was back with my baby.
Service was around 8/9 out of 10. Would have given them a 10 (but for the wait). But this was hardly a "real" service almost like a waste of service. I wish they had it around 6 months or so instead of the 1 month.

Last edited by kingpin1 : 1st April 2010 at 08:51. Reason: Edits
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Old 1st April 2010, 13:51   #52
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What did the service guys have to say about the 20,000 kms drain interval? was yours changed in the first service? I'm due for my first tomorrow (good friday!). I intend to grill them on this and then post my feedback on this thread as well as mine.
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Old 1st April 2010, 14:26   #53
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
I see no harm in draining the synthetic stuff at 20,000km if the manufacturer has found it good enough to recommend so, provided the oil still 'feels good to the touch'.
That is what I do in my Marina with its 10000km interval and will do the same for the Manza.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 10:37   #54
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What did the service guys have to say about the 20,000 kms drain interval? was yours changed in the first service? I'm due for my first tomorrow (good friday!). I intend to grill them on this and then post my feedback on this thread as well as mine.
Didn't ask him specifically about it. Probably because i didn't want an oil change now. Will be going for a change around 2500 or so. Once that is done will test it every 1000k or so and will do it if and when necessary.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 18:27   #55
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Hi,



I fully respect your sentiments.

But then I seem to be the 'average Joe' here, and I really don't mind it.

I can take a risk on my own car, can't I?
Hi Trrk,

Of course, its your car and at the end of the day, you can treat it as you deem right. I am posting not only for you, but also for other members & guests who want to "maximise" the life of their engines / turbochargers. I think of it this way:

1. What have I got to lose by changing the oil at 7,500 kms? Nothing (except the cost of oil + filter, which I can fully afford if I'm a car owner). On the other hand, what am I risking with changing the oil at 20,000 kms. Pre-mature engine & turbocharger failure. Look up the dyno report on my Vtec. My Honda - thanks to perfectly timed oil changes - retained EACH and everyone of the factory horses AFTER 73,000 kms of HARD driving (read = redlining often).

2. I find it hard to believe that Tata would recommend an oil change interval of 20,000 kms. May I request a scanned copy of any official communication or the owners manual specifying this?

3. A related Team-BHP discussion (Engine oil change at 5000 or 10000kms?)

4. Again, SLUDGE will kill your engine. Our driving conditions - stop / go traffic, short distances, hot weather - are extremely harsh. It's not like we are driving 50 continuous miles on a freeway at a consistent speed on a daily basis.

5. Some related info from reputable sources:

Source

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But don't assume that if a synthetic is so good (read: very expensive) that you don't need to change it as often. The base lubricant may well be better, but the additive package, which can be as much as 25 percent of the volume of product in the bottle, can still become exhausted. And unburned fuel, partially burned hydrocarbons, atmospheric dirt, metal wear particles and blowby carbon particles will build up just as fast in a synthetic-lubricated engine as in one laved in petroleum-based oil. The only way to remove this stuff is to drain and replace the oil. I've always recommended 3000-mile oil changes, but I'm rethinking that. The air cleaners, the compression and oil-control rings and positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) in modern engines are better than ever. The air cleaners admit less abrasive atmospheric dirt, and closely fitted rings keep blowby and particulates above the piston and out of the oil. Sophisticated PCV systems are better at purging water vapor and partial hydrocarbons from the crankcase and burning them off in the engine, so I'm leaning more toward 5000 miles for most people with cars newer than about 1990 or so. As always, your mileage may vary.
Source

Quote:
Most car makers generally recommend changing the oil for automobiles and light trucks burning gasoline once a year or every 7,500 miles, whichever occurs first. For diesel engines and turbocharged gasoline engines, the recommendation is typically a more accelerated 3,000 miles or six months.

Diesels tend to generate much more soot and acidic combustion blow-by in the crankcase. Turbochargers subject motor oils to high temperatures and are more prone to form engine deposits. A turbo can spin at speeds exceeding 100,000 rpm (about the same speed as a dentist’s drill). When an engine is shut off, the heat inside the turbo bearing housing builds from the high frictional heat and hot exhaust gases. The oil in contact with these hot bearing surfaces can crack, forming coke (hard carbon deposits) and hydrogen. This can lead to bearing damage.

If you read the fine print in your car owner’s manual, you will see that the 7,500-mile change interval is for vehicles driven under normal or ideal conditions. This is where the problem lies. What exactly are these ideal conditions and what are the consequences of not ideal with respect to motor oil condition and engine wear? What many perceive to be “normal” driving is actually “severe service” driving from the standpoint of the oil. For instance, the following are examples of severe service driving: frequent short trips (especially during cold weather), stop-and-go driving, driving in dusty conditions (gravel roads, etc.), and high-temperature conditions. Under such conditions, the general recommendation found in owner’s manuals is to change the oil every 3,000 miles or six months.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 19:08   #56
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Hi Trrk,
Of course, its your car and at the end of the day, you can treat it as you deem right.
I repeat that I appreciate your concerns.

I am sure people would accept your views and act accordingly.

But I think differently and I certainly do not encourage people to follow my idiosyncrasies.

I am sure my car would be healthy with a 7500km oil change, but then I would never know whether it 'could' be healthy even with a 20000km change.

So let me be the scapegoat here.

Sorry kingpin1 for this discussion on your thread!

Last edited by trrk : 2nd April 2010 at 19:10.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 22:47   #57
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+1 to Prabal, Amartya and trrk's learned views above, here's my two bits:

Went for my manza's first service today and popped the oil change question immediately, pat came the reply from the service advisor, Saar, We'll change it at 10,000 first time and every 20,000 thereafter and only top ups in between. BTW the price quoted to me today for a top up of Mobil1 was Rs.700!! Luckily I didn't have to pay it since the oil level had not gone down. I asked him is this interval not too much? he pointed to the mofussil cabbies waiting for service, and said, Saar none of these chaps changes his oil at the recommended 10K for Indicas/indigos 20-25k kms is the normal interval they follow and these taxis typically do a lac+ kms a year in Delhi and run just fine. Whatever the drain interval the company recommends is after factoring in that half the people will double the interval, Saar, he said, your's is Synthetic oil see for yourself and he pulled out the dipstick, the oil was just like when I measured it in the showroom, I mean this oil is sort of transparent and hard to clearly make out on the Dipstick, you have to feel it rather, with your fingers. I clearly recollect that on my previous Indica, which I drove for 10 long yrs, the oil used to turn black in about a hundred kms after each change, I clearly know it because I check the oil level every week, like I was taught and drilled into, back in my Army days (Daily, weekly and monthly tasks of maintenance- more on that some time else) What I mean to say is, that this synthetic stuff is clearly much superior than the regular mineral oils I've seen thus far, and the reason this synth oil (only) is prescribed for the diesel manza (and is optional for the petrol version) is because it's required to lubricate the VGT as well.
Meanwhile I've also been talking to some old Trucker friends. The modern heavy TATA trucks (1613, 2525, 4018 and all) are all Tubocharged and the favourite engine oil of these truckers is Hylube Milcy, I remember seeing a 20ltr bucket of such oil with a drain interval of 20k or 25 k printed on it. And hylube milcy is NOT a synthetic oil and these trucks as we all know, are not as powerful as the Yankee rigs (remember Smokey and the Bandit!) and are also overloaded drastically, and therefore often run in low gears (read HIGH rpms) and still maintain a high drain interval of 25-30k kms. This trucker friend quipped, If I start draining my oil every 5k kms I'll have to change it every round trip to Bangalore!. These truckers, as is the common perception, are not at all negligent about their steeds, in fact quite the converse is true, on the other hand they aren't naively overindulgent either, they just take enough care for it to keep running optimally for a really long time with no break downs. That's what the Average Joe expects from his car, doesn't he? In view of what all I have stated above, read with what Prabal, Amartya and trrk have to say, 20k kms drain interval for the Manza doesn't seem like too big a deal, does it?

P.S. My 150th post is dedicated to Team BHP and all its Average, Below Average, and Above Average Joes!!

Last edited by windiesel : 2nd April 2010 at 22:55. Reason: 150th post and going strong!!
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Old 3rd April 2010, 14:15   #58
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by windiesel View Post
Saar, We'll change it at 10,000 first time and every 20,000 thereafter and only top ups in between. BTW the price quoted to me today for a top up of Mobil1 was Rs.700!!
My dealer said that the first oil change would be at 20000 only and is supported by the service schedule of the Manza.

When you go for the service, check your oil level beforehand and do not accept top up blindly as the oil level may not go down enough to warrant a top up.

That flat Rs 700 for topup even without checking level is a way to make money even without putting a drop..

So far I have never needed a topup in between oil change services in my old Indica or my present Marina over 65000+ distances. Nor was it needed for any other vehicle that I have owned.

Last edited by trrk : 3rd April 2010 at 14:21.
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Old 3rd April 2010, 14:31   #59
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Hope I am not going OT.

Tata recommends two different oil change interval for Safari; every 7500kms if you drive mostly in city ( read higher rpm runs) and evry 15000kms other wise.

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Went to book Manza in procelain white today and dealer told me that aura Abs model doesn't comes in porcelain white and only in DP white which is a bit creamish. Can anyone confirmed this, its urgent ??
However i can see your is porcelain white so very confused now!
Check with another. This cant be true.

Porcelain white looks great than other colors IMHO; saw one at the showroom today.

Last edited by jkdas : 3rd April 2010 at 14:32.
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Old 3rd April 2010, 16:13   #60
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Hi,
My dealer said that the first oil change would be at 20000 only and is supported by the service schedule of the Manza.

When you go for the service, check your oil level beforehand and do not accept top up blindly as the oil level may not go down enough to warrant a top up.

That flat Rs 700 for topup even without checking level is a way to make money even without putting a drop..

So far I have never needed a topup in between oil change services in my old Indica or my present Marina over 65000+ distances. Nor was it needed for any other vehicle that I have owned.
No wonder they say that Kerala is the most Literate state! the dealer in Delhi doesn't know what's written in the manual it seems. When he said 700 for a top up I immdtly told him that the oil level was fine. We'll put it only if required, he replied. I then said, Boss call me and show the level to me before putting in any thing, and generally raised my voice a bit. I think putting up this show saved me the 700 quid. I realised it was a trap the moment he mentioned it!! Next time I'll pull out my dipstick (the Manza's I mean!) and show the level to him before parting with the vehicle.

In my old Indica the oil level never used to go down while in the city or on the highways in plains. It was only after the himalyan escapades that top ups were required.
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