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Old 3rd December 2014, 10:27   #226
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar failed again to rectify the problem

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Are you seeing any kind of smoke during acceleration or cruising?

I suspect the car is burning oil due to damaged piston rings. As you were pointing out that the fuel filter was in bad state when opened, some dust + muck would have reached the engine causing problems.

Can you hook the car to an OBD reader to find out if there are any error codes registered or no?!
All Polos are known to consume some oil, about 500ml to a Litre in between every 15k service. This car used to gallop half a litre in about 8k kms. So 800 gms in 12k kms seems fine.

Also, I did check for white smoke, couldnt see any. Will check the oil pressure switch. If its any engine related problem, this car is getting sold!




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Post the picture of the instrumentation console with that lights, please.
Will do.

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Hats off to you and your brother for hanging onto this piece of great German engineering. I would have got rid of it it long back. You guys have great patience!
The problem is we normally buy cars to keep it for a stretch of atleast 7-8 years. If we sell this car, my brother will only buy a new car (although I have been suggesting a used Civic AT). So, a new AT car within 5-6 lacs is only Celerio. And that honestly is a down grade from this segment. the other option is to increase the budget and get zest AT. But getting a tata after this junk can be suicidal. So not a fat lot of options, hence, the Patience
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Old 3rd December 2014, 11:21   #227
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar failed again to rectify the problem

Gaurav, fully empathize with you, but don't you think bad fuel is the root cause of all the problems in your car? Did you find out how so much dirt could accumulate in your fuel tank? Regarding your other cars using the same fuel, different cars have difference tolerance for adulterated or dirty fuel, right?
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Old 3rd December 2014, 11:50   #228
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Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
All Polos are known to consume some oil, about 500ml to a Litre in between every 15k service. This car used to gallop half a litre in about 8k kms. So 800 gms in 12k kms seems fine.

Also, I did check for white smoke, couldnt see any. Will check the oil pressure switch.
I agree on oil consumption but yours seem to be a bit high. Just a doubt.


Do check the pressure switch.


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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Donut you think bad fuel is the root cause of all the problems in your car? Did you find out how so much dirt could accumulate in your fuel tank?
Exactly, that's what i pointed in my last post. I doubt the fuel quality + fuel filter.

Anurag.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 12:35   #229
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar failed again to rectify the problem

Hey Gaurav, that oil consumption is definitely higher. I mean what is a Polo Petrol's 1.2 liter engine anyway ? Its just a simple petrol engine with neither a Turbo, neither great power, neither high compression ratio. Why should it consume any oil ?

Secondly, when the oil light comes on the dashboard, its the 'oil pressure' light and obviously lack of engine oil causes low oil pressure but when the light does come, things have come down to disaster levels.

In your case though, it seems like an oil pressure switch, but still topping up 800 ml seems unusual to me.

Although two engines cannot be similar anyway, but my friends Dzire Petrol never needs an engine oil top up even in the 10 thousand km intervals he gives it for service.

My Swift Diesel never needs an oil top up in 8 thousand kilometers that I change my oil. When I have changed it at 10 thousand km intervals too there has never been a top up. Infact, I have never topped up my engine oil ever in 1 lakh 5 thousand kilometers that my car has run. Why this Volkswagen topping up business is science to me.

Anyway, do complain to VW about the happenings. How can all this fuel filter chocking, fuel tank dirty thingy happen in just 4 months of everything being replaced and cleaned? There are users here who have never touched their fuel tanks or got it cleaned in the lakhs of kilometers they have driven.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 13:28   #230
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar failed again to rectify the problem

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Hey Gaurav, that oil consumption is definitely higher. I mean what is a Polo Petrol's 1.2 liter engine anyway ? Its just a simple petrol engine with neither a Turbo, neither great power, neither high compression ratio. Why should it consume any oil ?

Secondly, when the oil light comes on the dashboard, its the 'oil pressure' light and obviously lack of engine oil causes low oil pressure but when the light does come, things have come down to disaster levels.

In your case though, it seems like an oil pressure switch, but still topping up 800 ml seems unusual to me.

Although two engines cannot be similar anyway, but my friends Dzire Petrol never needs an engine oil top up even in the 10 thousand km intervals he gives it for service.

My Swift Diesel never needs an oil top up in 8 thousand kilometers that I change my oil. When I have changed it at 10 thousand km intervals too there has never been a top up. Infact, I have never topped up my engine oil ever in 1 lakh 5 thousand kilometers that my car has run. Why this Volkswagen topping up business is science to me.

Anyway, do complain to VW about the happenings. How can all this fuel filter chocking, fuel tank dirty thingy happen in just 4 months of everything being replaced and cleaned? There are users here who have never touched their fuel tanks or got it cleaned in the lakhs of kilometers they have driven.
There is nothing like VW topping up business, this is propagated by overzealous SAs.I have run 55K KM in my Polo and has never topped up oil even once. The oil is changed at stipulated 15K service. Once dirt gets in to fuel tank and there by to fuel pump or engine then your car is as good as a lemon. Multiple problems can occur from on off pick up to complete engine seizure.
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

Exactly, that's what i pointed in my last post. I doubt the fuel quality + fuel filter.

Anurag.
Totally agree.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 14:16   #231
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar failed again to rectify the problem

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
There is nothing like VW topping up business, this is propagated by overzealous SAs.I have run 55K KM in my Polo and has never topped up oil even once. The oil is changed at stipulated 15K service. Once dirt gets in to fuel tank and there by to fuel pump or engine then your car is as good as a lemon. Multiple problems can occur from on off pick up to complete engine seizure.
You can find lots of threads on team-bhp itself where in Volkswagen's need an engine oil top up from time to time and the company thinks its 'okay'.

Secondly his fuel tank and assorted things were cleaned before 4 months, how did dirt get in then ?

Engine seizure because of dirt in the fuel tank where did u get this theory from ?
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Old 3rd December 2014, 14:53   #232
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

That is what I told it is done at SA level, if some one go and ask them shall I top up the oil at 8K KM they oblige. No company communication has come out advising customers to do this.
That is for Gaurav to find out, how come the dirt got there in first place.
Sorry I am not a mechanical engineer or automobile engineer. So you may inform me if dirt get in to engine with a failed filter, what is gonna happen?
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Old 3rd December 2014, 15:03   #233
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

If we look at the entire episode, clearly the engine head issues are serious and an engine replacement and or a new vehicle might have been merited during the first episode when the car was nearly new. Nevertheless VW fixed the issue and provided reimbursement for taxi fares during repair period and the customer was quite satisfied with customer service and the quality of the work. In the last episode, VW has done well to waive off the entire bill of 18.5K as a goodwill gesture even though the warranty period is over and the last issue was nearly a year ago. I don't see what more they could be expected to do? Demanding that VW or the dealer provide a written guaranty stating no trouble would occur for the next 50K kms is completely unreasonable. No company can guaranty that even in a brand new vehicle and new car warranties are just for 24K kms. How can anyone guaranty that no possible fault would occur for the next 50K Kms? Even a brand new car can breakdown at any time. No doubt the customer has suffered from multiple issues throughout his ownership but asking for the impossible is not the solution. At this stage, I would be glad that my issue was fixed for free and if I have lost confidence in the car, I would sell it and cut my losses. After all I have gotten 5 years of ownership with no out of pocket expenses and with some money coming from the sale, the whole experience might become somewhat more palatable and can be put behind me.

Last edited by Lobogris : 3rd December 2014 at 15:06.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 15:45   #234
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
If we look at the entire episode, clearly the engine head issues are serious and an engine replacement and or a new vehicle might have been merited during the first episode when the car was nearly new. Nevertheless VW fixed the issue and provided reimbursement for taxi fares during repair period and the customer was quite satisfied with customer service and the quality of the work. In the last episode, VW has done well to waive off the entire bill of 18.5K as a goodwill gesture even though the warranty period is over and the last issue was nearly a year ago. I don't see what more they could be expected to do? Demanding that VW or the dealer provide a written guaranty stating no trouble would occur for the next 50K kms is completely unreasonable. No company can guaranty that even in a brand new vehicle and new car warranties are just for 24K kms. How can anyone guaranty that no possible fault would occur for the next 50K Kms? Even a brand new car can breakdown at any time. No doubt the customer has suffered from multiple issues throughout his ownership but asking for the impossible is not the solution. At this stage, I would be glad that my issue was fixed for free and if I have lost confidence in the car, I would sell it and cut my losses. After all I have gotten 5 years of ownership with no out of pocket expenses and with some money coming from the sale, the whole experience might become somewhat more palatable and can be put behind me.
So after 2 head changes, you still think its unresonable to ask for a warranty on the worksmanship when everything for the owner is going south right from the start ? And companies do guarantee on brand new vehicles till 1 lakh kilometers for some, 80 thousand kilometers for some, who told you its only 24k? My Swift had 4 years and 80 thousand kilometers of warranty. Volkswagen need to get their act right. Gaurav got a lemon, all right, so now who's responsibility is to fix everything as good as new ? Is there any component in the car that can't be changed and the car made to run as good as new ? What is taking the service station 4 years plus to get a simple petrol car back to its original shape?



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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Sorry I am not a mechanical engineer or automobile engineer. So you may inform me if dirt get in to engine with a failed filter, what is gonna happen?
Injector will get clogged if the size of the particulate is too big, if its small enough to pass through the injector, I ll just crash and burn in the cylinder. Engine will never seize because of dirt. Indian fuel is not Ganga jaisa pavitra I agree, but lakhs of cars run on it day in day out on it.

Last edited by humyum : 3rd December 2014 at 15:55.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 17:00   #235
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
So after 2 head changes, you still think its unresonable to ask for a warranty on the worksmanship when everything for the owner is going south right from the start ? And companies do guarantee on brand new vehicles till 1 lakh kilometers for some, 80 thousand kilometers for some, who told you its only 24k? My Swift had 4 years and 80 thousand kilometers of warranty. Volkswagen need to get their act right. Gaurav got a lemon, all right, so now who's responsibility is to fix everything as good as new ? Is there any component in the car that can't be changed and the car made to run as good as new ? What is taking the service station 4 years plus to get a simple petrol car back to its original shape?





Injector will get clogged if the size of the particulate is too big, if its small enough to pass through the injector, I ll just crash and burn in the cylinder. Engine will never seize because of dirt. Indian fuel is not Ganga jaisa pavitra I agree, but lakhs of cars run on it day in day out on it.
I thought severely clogged injectors will finally lead to engine seizure.
This is what I read from net.
Fuel injector symptoms for bad, faulty, dirty, clogged injectors are :
Starting issues
Poor idle
Failed emissions
Poor Performance
Engine does not reach full RPM
Increased fuel consumption
Rough engine performance
Surging and bucking under various throttle loads
Smoke from the tail pipe
Pollution
Engine Knock or Detonation which can lead to catastrophic engine failure

Dirty or worn-out injectors can also cause preignition or detonation Detonation is a fairly common problem in which gas remaining at the end of the normal air/fuel burning cycle (which is set off by the spark plug) spontaneously combusts. Detonation is harmless in some cases, but the pressure has potential to break engine components and cause pitting and scuffing around the pistons. Preignition is when the air and fuel combust before the spark plug fires, causing severely increased engine temperature and damaged pistons.

Last edited by poloman : 3rd December 2014 at 17:10.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 17:53   #236
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Update:- I showed the car to my mechanic. First thing he checked was oil pressure switch. He had a doubt on the oil pump but oil was getting rotated as he opened the switch and cranked the engine to check. He found that the coupler that is connected to the switch was not installed properly. When he checked, he found that the rubber inside had expanded. So he removed the rubber and installed the coupler again. The light went off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Gaurav, fully empathize with you, but don't you think bad fuel is the root cause of all the problems in your car? Did you find out how so much dirt could accumulate in your fuel tank? Regarding your other cars using the same fuel, different cars have difference tolerance for adulterated or dirty fuel, right?
I agree that dust caused these recent problems. But I have a few questions, why was fuel filter not checked and changed 4 months back. Also, I am sure the tank was not cleaned 4 months back and I also have doubts on the fuel pump replacement. The problem in the car came back 2 months later. I will use the car for 2-3 months and update the condition of the tank, after getting it checked.

Also, regarding the tolerance, I think VW should start recommending fuel pumps from where one should get the car filled up . In between:- I believe if cars we have/had owned had such high tolerance, then these car companies including TATA Motors deserve some appreciation


Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree on oil consumption but yours seem to be a bit high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
In your case though, it seems like an oil pressure switch, but still topping up 800 ml seems unusual to me.
Its normal.


Quote:
Although two engines cannot be similar anyway, but my friends Dzire Petrol never needs an engine oil top up even in the 10 thousand km intervals he gives it for service.

My Swift Diesel never needs an oil top up in 8 thousand kilometers that I change my oil. When I have changed it at 10 thousand km intervals too there has never been a top up. Infact, I have never topped up my engine oil ever in 1 lakh 5 thousand kilometers that my car has run. Why this Volkswagen topping up business is science to me.
Swift and Polo cant be compared. The swift we had never consumed oil in 1 lac kms. Also my brother in law's 1.3 lac kms driven swift diesel never consumed oil. It has been an extremely reliable car with 0 troubles in 6 years and 1.3 lac kms. The more kms it runs the more it reminds me what I blunder I did cancelling our swift diesel and buying the polo.

Quote:
Anyway, do complain to VW about the happenings. How can all this fuel filter chocking, fuel tank dirty thingy happen in just 4 months of everything being replaced and cleaned?
The question is did they carry out these job. Honestly, I am happy with my mechanic. Dont give a damn about the VW or its ASC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
There is nothing like VW topping up business, this is propagated by overzealous SAs.I have run 55K KM in my Polo and has never topped up oil even once. The oil is changed at stipulated 15K service.
Check your car at 7-8k kms, the oil will be low in the deep stick. It will require a top up. However, it can be stretched till 15k kms without a problem. The oil light should come only when there is 1-1.5 L in the engine depending on car.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Secondly his fuel tank and assorted things were cleaned before 4 months, how did dirt get in then ?
That Sir, is the right question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
I don't see what more they could be expected to do? Demanding that VW or the dealer provide a written guaranty stating no trouble would occur for the next 50K kms is completely unreasonable.
Honestly, I am a very unreasonable person. People who know me on this forum can vouch for that. I'll end it at that.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 3rd December 2014 at 18:00.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 18:51   #237
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post

Update:- I showed the car to my mechanic. ..... He found that the coupler that is connected to the switch was not installed properly. ... The light went off.
....

Your mechanic must be a German-return-Desi or a Ex-VW specialist!

But seriously, you got to share his details on TBhp Directory-Delhi and he may end up saving many unsatisfied VW owners around NCR (maybe till Jaipur even!!)

Quote:
Honestly, I am a very unreasonable person. People who know me on this forum can vouch for that. I'll end it at that.
No one can blame you! You got a DasAuto and ended up taking dus-autos to&fro service center! Clearly a VW customers expectation or perception of quality is different from that of a person who gets a Indica or a Hyundai.

On a sidenote, these Germans do know how to sell their products on "GERMAN ENGINEERING" point alone - nothing else! All their advts have more of their employees doing R&D than a skimpy model or a bare-chested-hulk selling them...Huh!
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Old 4th December 2014, 12:38   #238
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
I thought severely clogged injectors will finally lead to engine seizure.
This is what I read from net.
Fuel injector symptoms for bad, faulty, dirty, clogged injectors are :
Starting issues
Poor idle
Failed emissions
Poor Performance
Engine does not reach full RPM
Increased fuel consumption
Rough engine performance
Surging and bucking under various throttle loads
Smoke from the tail pipe
Pollution
Engine Knock or Detonation which can lead to catastrophic engine failure

Dirty or worn-out injectors can also cause preignition or detonation Detonation is a fairly common problem in which gas remaining at the end of the normal air/fuel burning cycle (which is set off by the spark plug) spontaneously combusts. Detonation is harmless in some cases, but the pressure has potential to break engine components and cause pitting and scuffing around the pistons. Preignition is when the air and fuel combust before the spark plug fires, causing severely increased engine temperature and damaged pistons.
Except water entering the combustion chamber, nothing in shape or form of dirt will cause an engine seize

Yes injectors get clogged, but for them to clog, you need to fill fuel which is purposely made to destroy your car. For fuel with dirt to reach the injectors, it has to pass through the fuel filter which just won't allow it to like in diesel cars the water will not pass to the injectors because of diesel in water filter.

In a petrol engine, rather than contaminants, you will find kerosene mixed with the fuel, this kerosene, which will cause knocking at certain rpms and loss of power. This can be easily rectified with System D or filling in fresh un adulterated petrol from another bunk.

Indian cars (mostly) are tried and tested to withstand a lot of these kind of fuels. I have never seen an engine seize because of adulterated fuel. Fuel pump problems, YES, injector problems, YES, but never an engine seize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post

No one can blame you! You got a DasAuto and ended up taking dus-autos to&fro service center! Clearly a VW customers expectation or perception of quality is different from that of a person who gets a Indica or a Hyundai.

On a sidenote, these Germans do know how to sell their products on "GERMAN ENGINEERING" point alone - nothing else! All their advts have more of their employees doing R&D than a skimpy model or a bare-chested-hulk selling them...Huh!
DAS bahane karke de gaye bill, de gaye bill. DAS bahane karke de gaye bill

Last edited by humyum : 4th December 2014 at 12:40.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 15:01   #239
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Update: 60k service
63800 kms on the clock.

The car has been running fairly well. No power loss or missing complaints. However, we have been witnessing petrol smell in the car ever since the tank has been cleaned and fuel pump and filter has been changed. The smell is more evident when we get the car's tank full.

We have been keeping busy, so couldn't show the car to our mechanic. On Wednesday, I managed to spare a few hours in the evening to get the car serviced as it was 15,300 kms since last service. Got the parts from an auto parts shop near my place.

Genuine VW Oil Filter and Air Filter, and aftermarket AC filter priced at Rs. 400, Rs. 550 and Rs. 400, respectively.

Oil 4 L Castrol Magnetic (Semi Synthetic) - 10W 40 - Price: Rs. 1300/-. We will stick to 10k kms/1 year service from now on.

3 Bosch spark plugs for Rs. 240/-

4 Litre Delphi Coolant for Rs. 720/-

Labour - Rs. 400/-

Washing - Rs. 400/-

Alignment, Balancing & wheel rotation - Rs. 500/-

Total Cost:- Rs. 4910/-

Still need to get the service interval reset on the OD. Should cost Rs. 500.

The suspension Link rods are on their way and would need replacement. The brake pads will also last another 5k kms or so. Will get both these changed in couple of months when needed. I checked the suspension myself and its only link rods that seem to have worn out. All other suspension parts are in good condition. However, I remember VW Moti Nagar (West Delhi) asking me to change the suspension link rods, arms, steering tie rods/ends, and strut mounts at 48k kms service in March 2014. I got a call from the adviser at that time and they mentioned it on the final service bill. I, of course, refused to the jobs. The estimate provided at that time was around Rs. 30k/-. Fleecing Customers!

Regarding the petrol smell - My mechanic says it seems like a miniscule leak in either the center joint of the fuel tank (plastic tank) or in the joint that connects fuel tank to the filler pipe. Will get this checked and fixed along with brake pads and suspension link rod work. Didnt have enough time on this visit to get these issues fixed.

In BTW: I now know why the OE fuel filter and fuel pump failed. Both of them say " Made in China"! My mechanic had kept them in the boot when he changed them.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 22nd January 2015 at 15:14.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 17:12   #240
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Default Re: My horribly unreliable VW Polo. VW Moti Nagar fails again to rectify the problem!

Good to know that you have shifted to your FNG (Raju?) instead of A.S.S.
This is the charm of owning vehicles outside warranty period.


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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Engine Knock or Detonation which can lead to catastrophic engine failure
I am concerned about the 'engine knock' bit. On both my cars, if the speed of the vehicle does not match the speed of engine - the engine does knock.
How bad is this if it happens once in two months?
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