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Old 7th May 2010, 16:36   #31
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Kamesh Congrats for the new buy !! By the way how do you feel after driving the new WagonR?
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Old 7th May 2010, 17:20   #32
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Congrats! The new version is much improved over the older one! good choice!
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Old 7th May 2010, 18:16   #33
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Originally Posted by KameshR View Post
The engine did not show any stress when pulling along with the AC on. I understand terms like 'pulled along freely' are too loose and vague, which could be interpreted differently if it is not substantiated with figures. So I wish to share with you my test of torque. Keep watching!
Looking forward to this!!

Your posts are very pleasant to read which I guess has something to do with you being a senior, mature person.
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Old 7th May 2010, 19:29   #34
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Other than being a "fan" of the wagon-R brand, I don't see a point in this car. Firstly, it's a 3 cylinder downsized engine. Secondly, the side profile looks even more bread box like as compared to its predecessor. Thirdly, if one pays roughly 30K more, a much better Ritz Vxi (in terms of engine & build quality) can be bought.
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Old 7th May 2010, 20:31   #35
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Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
Other than being a "fan" of the wagon-R brand, I don't see a point in this car. Firstly, it's a 3 cylinder downsized engine. Secondly, the side profile looks even more bread box like as compared to its predecessor. Thirdly, if one pays roughly 30K more, a much better Ritz Vxi (in terms of engine & build quality) can be bought.
Wagon R Vxi : 3.81 ; Ritz Vxi is 4.30 ( ex showroom Delhi price). Difference is 49 K and not 30 K as you wrote above. For a city drive i guess Wagon R is a better option to Ritz.

Looks are a different matter all together as they are person specific.
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Old 8th May 2010, 00:08   #36
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Congratulations on the purchase...
Wagon R ii serve you well like the pevious one served me.

After shifting to the Dzire, I m really missing my Wagon R. When i usually go to work I reach my office wondering how I reached there. The drive and controls are so easy and most importantly u need not bend or squeeze yourself in.It just becomes part of your daily life and often I forget that I ve travelled in a car after reaching a destination. Its much more than that. Now with the dzire I feel that i have come in a bulbous hatchy sedan with a huge butt and is powerful enough to pump some adrenaline on the highways. The huge front seats and the power mid-range is keeping me entertained. But after reaching the office i feel that i ve come in a car from wich i ve crawled out and think about the difficult time i had over potholes and some rattles.

On the highways Wagon r used to be a bit of disappointment but the engine was free revving and easy to overtake at sane speeds. Only grouse I found was the bushy gear change which i got used to in a matter of days. Now in the Dzire I feel the gearchange as a click and makes me a bit uncomfortable as i was used to the vague bushy mushy shifts. Soon I started loving the gearchanges too.

Now my father who has knee joint problem is using the Wagon R. He is so happy with the doors, frontseats and as he says all he has to do is to open the door and walk back to the seat and sit. not like in our accent where he had to put one leg in then one butt and then the other and finally pull the painful leg in.

The new Wagon R is certainly a good product targeted at people who want a spacious car for city driving and occasional highway trips. The only problem I feel the current model has is the lack of bootspace and a few missing recesses and cup holders on the dash. Maybe it will compensate with the k series engine and better gearshift. My father has started drooling over the new Wagon R. Some day soon I hope to see it in our garage.
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Old 8th May 2010, 07:04   #37
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That is a fantastic buy Mr.Kamesh.

Enjoy your new found love
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Old 8th May 2010, 13:50   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Looking forward to this!!

Your posts are very pleasant to read which I guess has something to do with you being a senior, mature person.
Thanks. I find a good reader in you too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
Other than being a "fan" of the wagon-R brand, I don't see a point in this car. Firstly, it's a 3 cylinder downsized engine. Secondly, the side profile looks even more bread box like as compared to its predecessor. Thirdly, if one pays roughly 30K more, a much better Ritz Vxi (in terms of engine & build quality) can be bought.
Hey Zen2001, arent some of us here fans to utility and practicality too? I completely understand your feelings and I guess Maruti has a solution to those looking for more power in the car. For me, the engine never felt like a let down. The boot certainly is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygordon View Post
Congratulations on the purchase...
Wagon R ii serve you well like the pevious one served me.

After shifting to the Dzire, I m really missing my Wagon R. When i usually go to work I reach my office wondering how I reached there. The drive and controls are so easy and most importantly u need not bend or squeeze yourself in.It just becomes part of your daily life and often I forget that I ve travelled in a car after reaching a destination. Its much more than that. Now with the dzire I feel that i have come in a bulbous hatchy sedan with a huge butt and is powerful enough to pump some adrenaline on the highways. The huge front seats and the power mid-range is keeping me entertained. But after reaching the office i feel that i ve come in a car from wich i ve crawled out and think about the difficult time i had over potholes and some rattles.

On the highways Wagon r used to be a bit of disappointment but the engine was free revving and easy to overtake at sane speeds. Only grouse I found was the bushy gear change which i got used to in a matter of days. Now in the Dzire I feel the gearchange as a click and makes me a bit uncomfortable as i was used to the vague bushy mushy shifts. Soon I started loving the gearchanges too.

Now my father who has knee joint problem is using the Wagon R. He is so happy with the doors, frontseats and as he says all he has to do is to open the door and walk back to the seat and sit. not like in our accent where he had to put one leg in then one butt and then the other and finally pull the painful leg in.

The new Wagon R is certainly a good product targeted at people who want a spacious car for city driving and occasional highway trips. The only problem I feel the current model has is the lack of bootspace and a few missing recesses and cup holders on the dash. Maybe it will compensate with the k series engine and better gearshift. My father has started drooling over the new Wagon R. Some day soon I hope to see it in our garage.
Thanks Sandy. I'm sure your dad will like the new version more than ever with the improved overall package. Enjoy the Dzire!
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Old 8th May 2010, 14:03   #39
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Friends, after reading through many of the responses and gliding through other threads, I observed that the boxy looks of the good old Wagon-R is bothering many. I can understand their reasoning since we simply have many beauties in the market with curvy and sleeker hatchbacks. I believe there is no argument about the looks being boxy because it is unanimously agreed, but then I wish we could discuss the design characteristics of recent cars and bring out a fundamental idea that any manufacturers wagon would indeed be a boxy 4 wheeler!

Some of the comments from friends and relatives about the original Wagon-R when it was launched was a standard remark which goes something like this - 'Take a Tempo Traveler and smash it on all the sides to get a Wagon-R!'.

That statement when taken literally would only result in mangled metal, but the bigger picture is that its without doubt a Jr. Tempo. point taken. But then why? I'm sure people are familiar about the Tall boy design which came out due to the Kei car regulations restricted length. The formula being increase the height of the vehicle, have a upright A pillar and make the passengers sit high so that knees are bent there by reducing the demand for leg room. At the cost of what? I'm neither a car designer nor have a formal degree on design but correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding.

With under 4 mts of length to play, if the height is increased disproportionately one cannot achieve an all round curvy car with a balanced roof. Cars like punto for example has a swept back A pillar for which the roof must end seamlessly. The rear seats have to be placed well before the point where the curvy roof end's so as to give enough headroom. I am bringing curves into picture because they are much needed to give today's buyers a sense of modern, sporty and sleeker feel to a car. Not to mention some character lines along the sides which coincide with the curves make a great looking car. Going back to tall boy design, what if I may ask if these curves are implemented on a tall boy? In my opinion over doing curves on a tall boy may well result in a inverted cone on wheels!

(By the way Acura's ZDX needs a special mention here. No, its not a tall boy hatchback but its something you have to see to believe.)

It has to be done minimally and no wonder Suzuki did the Ritz, for those people who could not stomach the Wagon-R's looks. Yet we hear from people about how the rear was compromised. I'm one among them too. perhaps Suzuki must have given it a Meriva like treatment to the rear. Another brave attempt I think is the Tata Nano albeit with a short length. Almost on par with the Wagon-R in terms of height, I'm unable to picture the Nano when strecthed by another 3 feet.

Other cars like Estilo or Santro too are great tall boy's yet share the boxy virtues. Here is a comparison of various cars (above 1550mm height) taken from carwale.com

So when we found a worthy successor for the Wagon-R in a Ritz, then why not discontinue the Wagon-R? Well I think the answer for that question is a Wagon is a Wagon is a Wagon. The qualities of it being tall and boxy, no matter who the manufacturer is.

Take the recently launched Kia Soul, Scion XB or concepts like GMC Granite, Volkswagen's space-up blue and the Milano Taxi Concept. They all share the tall height, flat roof and boxy sides with differing frontal curves, character lines and dimensions. Yet the design language is the same. When one has to represent small yet functional design it probably starts from a bread box!

Closing comments. Having had the acceptance of the tall boy design by almost all the manufacturers, the time tested box is here to stay and evolve generation after generation. perhaps we might have to admit that its a class of cars instead of one among the hatchbacks.
Attached Thumbnails
The Blue eyed boy (WagonR Lxi) comes home-dimensions.jpg  

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Old 8th May 2010, 18:23   #40
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Kamesh, You got it extremely right, this is a fitting reply to all those who compare the tall boy designs to other hatch backs. Keep up the review about the new Wagon R. I believe it is an excellent city car with terrific mileage figures.
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Old 8th May 2010, 20:29   #41
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KameshR, I fully agree with your views on the Wagon-R. Many seem to get nauseated over the Wagon-R's "boxy" looks and its "3-cylinder" engine. My observations...

1. What is wrong if a car has "boxy" looks? Most tall-bodied cars (Wagon-R, Estilo, Omni, Santro, etc) have had great sales exceeding 5,000 (refer to the April sales) and this only goes to reflect public interest in tall-bodied cars. Even the ultimate 'outdated' box on wheels, Omni, continues to generate sales that would put many other cars to shame. Many, including myself, understand "boxy" as being "practical" within relevant parameters. Too many curves in a car and you could mess up with the cabin and boot space. To cite an example, we recently had to take a wooden chair to a picnic site for the benefit of my wife's aged aunt. My brother-in-law has a Ritz, which boasts of 230-odd litre space and my Alto has a measly 170-litre space. Guess which car could accommodate the chair in the boot? My Alto. Simply because my Alto's 'boxed' boot was practical and not curvy as in the Ritz. In the end, my little Alto ended up carrying far more picnic stuff in the boot (and the same number of five passengers) than its more expensive and luxurious cousin.

To be honest, I find "boxy" cars most practical when it comes to carting people and luggage, especially in cities and on narrow roads. For me, a car is a car and not Picasso's work of art that it should be appreciated from a distance. At the end of the day, the 'beauty' of a car, whether boxed or not, lies in its ability to fulfill the desired expectations (FE, space, practicality, etc.) of the owner.

2. Regarding the 3-cylinder engine, most people I have come across couldn't care whether their car is a 2, 3 or 4 cylinder engine. I have been to a Maruti showroom on a number of occasions and on most occasions, I have found people only inspecting the interiors to check out the features and cabin space of the car. Many may want to know about the expected FE, but I have hardly found customers enquiring about the number of cylinders, torque and other engine-related specifications. For that matter, many wouldn't even know initially if their power steering is hydraulic or an EPS. Given the constant upward movement of fuel prices, most Indians couldn't be bothered if the Wagon-r has 3 or 4 cylinders, but their main concern is if the new Wagon-R has better FE and interiors than the older model. I reckon that if Maruti were to provide a Wagon-R with a 2-cylinder engine and promises 25 kmpl, if would have even more takers.

I may have stirred a hornet's nest, but these are my views and others are free to accept or reject them.

Melvyn

Last edited by misquitas : 8th May 2010 at 20:48.
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Old 8th May 2010, 22:22   #42
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Guys, I have no personal vendetta against the Wagon R; its just that I was expecting something radically different considering an "all new platform". The K-series engine is borrowed from the A-star (as was done for the "new" estilo). The engine runs out of breath @120km/h, although I wonder how safe even that speed would be for a car of this design. The A/C vents look outdated and plain ridiculous, as if lifted from a Santro. There are already reports of the A/C not being as efficient with a 3 cylinder downsized engine having to cool a larger cabin space. As mentioned in some review, the factory fitted stereo looks better than it sounds (and it ain't a looker by any distance). The saving grace is optional ABS and airbags offered in the Vxi. But I wonder with so many compromises, might as well leave them alone! For people who don't care if the engine is a 2/3/4 cylinder, I have nothing more to say.
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Old 8th May 2010, 22:57   #43
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Guys, I have no personal vendetta against the Wagon R; its just that I was expecting something radically different considering an "all new platform". The K-series engine is borrowed from the A-star (as was done for the "new" estilo). The engine runs out of breath @120km/h, although I wonder how safe even that speed would be for a car of this design. The A/C vents look outdated and plain ridiculous, as if lifted from a Santro. There are already reports of the A/C not being as efficient with a 3 cylinder downsized engine having to cool a larger cabin space. As mentioned in some review, the factory fitted stereo looks better than it sounds (and it ain't a looker by any distance). The saving grace is optional ABS and airbags offered in the Vxi. But I wonder with so many compromises, might as well leave them alone! For people who don't care if the engine is a 2/3/4 cylinder, I have nothing more to say.
Zen master, the word 'compromise' is subjective and what is a compromise to you may not be so for someone else.

* I don't think the 'all new platform' meant a totally new engine. I guess Maruti meant a "new" Wagon-R in its entirety. Different looks, different engine, different interiors and different FE. In this sense, the Wagon-r can be considered to be "all new".

* I don't think the customers who opt for the Wagon-R plan to see the speedometer needle crossing 100 km too often. I agree with you when you say "I wonder how safe even that speed would be for a car of this design."

* The look of the A/C vents is again subjective and to most people, it would make little difference. As a matter of fact, the earlier Wagon-R and the Alto shared much of the parts and yet not many were upset that the more expensive Wagon-R shared parts with its cheaper sibling. In my opinion, the best way to bring down manufacture costs (for the manufacturer) and to make spare parts cheaper (for the customer) is to have cars share their parts. The Figo is doing this and is sharing much of its parts with its other siblings and I don't see any problem if Wagon-R does it as well.

* Forget about the present 3-cylinder Wagon-R, my friend is unhappy with the AC on his 4-cylinder Wagon-R. He has even tinted his glass and yet complains that the AC is not as effective as he would have liked. My sister, however, is satisfied with the AC on her 4-pot Wagon-R and has not even tinted the glasses. So you see, expectations of an AC can vary quite a bit.

* With reference to the stereo, you may have a point there. By the way, I happened to notice a customer quite satisfied with the stereo on the Wagon-R when we went to the showroom to check the "new" Wagon-R . I wanted to tell him to go to the Ford showroom and listen to the Figo stereo and he would have noticed the difference.
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Old 9th May 2010, 10:21   #44
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Kamesh, You got it extremely right, this is a fitting reply to all those who compare the tall boy designs to other hatch backs. Keep up the review about the new Wagon R. I believe it is an excellent city car with terrific mileage figures.
Hi SCH, I just wanted to drive the point that todays wagons are almost derivatives of the bread box. I'm sure its a constant challenge for designers to come up with a small car that is high on utility yet retain the virtues of a traditional car. It would be truly a delight to see how these wagons evolve in the future.

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KameshR, I fully agree with your views on the Wagon-R. Many seem to get nauseated over the Wagon-R's "boxy" looks and its "3-cylinder" engine. My observations...

Melvyn
Great observations and I almost echo your opinion.

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Guys, I have no personal vendetta against the Wagon R;
Yes and I'm sure nobody ever thought you did. You have rightfully expressed your displeasure on what Maruti dished out, but as Melvyn said perhaps it is in best interests of FE that a 3 cylinder was used. As for drab looking interiors, I find most people going gaga over it coz we know how the old one looked. Whatever the concerns I would only encourage people in the forum to discuss each and every one of them.

Why you may ask, coz we are being watched!
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Old 9th May 2010, 11:05   #45
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Default And lo behold a call from Maruti!

Couple of days back my better half received a call about our blue eyed boy, which she initially thought came from the dealership. But few minutes into the call, the caller identified as someone from Maruti-Delhi and was inquiring about dealership experience and the car in general. Next came a very surprising question - 'who wrote the review?'

That's when it struck us that Maruti indeed made contact after reading our review at team-bhp.com and it wasn't their regular feedback calls. It just felt great that Maruti in spite of being a mass market manufacturer is taking interest and is using all platforms to know how its customers are doing. We may not worry what Maruti stands to gain or its motive is, but it would sure make sense to discuss all pros's and con's of its products in this forum.

Simply because someone from somewhere is listening what we are talking. Errr..reading.

At this point I would like to thank the creators of team-bhp.com for giving us this wonderful platform to share views/opinions. proud to be a bhp'ian.
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