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Old 10th July 2010, 11:25   #91
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Originally Posted by anantu2001 View Post
Ha ha ha.... You did it !! that stretch is amazing ..... mostly if you are coming from the other end - Magadi road flover. While your nearing Nagarbhavi circle, you can reach the maximum speeds
But that long curve as you approach Nagarbavi circle - I don't think I'm brave or stupid enough to take it at 100 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@smartcat: Are you sure that the service interval is 10,000km What I was told is 5,000/ 6months for service and 10000/12 months for oil change, provided synthetic is used.
I don't have the Civic manual with me - so I asked the service advisor. According to him, since I'll be using synthetic oil, I can get the car to the service station once every 10,000 km. But since your car is new and still under warranty, I suggest you get your car serviced every 5000 km.

Almost all cars nowadays has service interval ranging from 7000 km - 15000 km. So I think unless one drives in an extremely dusty environment, servicing the car once in 10,000 km should be fine.

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Originally Posted by YaeJay View Post
That coming from dear smartcat is funny!
Cats are intelligent - because they know when to fight & when to give up and run. After spending Rs. 20000 on fuel pipe, leaking fuel, wire mesh, brake failure and a large cut on my finger (happened while cutting Mortein rat killer cakes with a pen knife), I finally gave up my fight against the rats - Jerry won and Tom lost.
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Old 10th July 2010, 12:43   #92
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After driving the Civic for 1500+ kms (50% city + 50% highway), I'm finally ready for a proper review of the car.


COLD

Rush Hour Traffic Driveability: Words cannot describe how poor the Honda Civic is in stop-go-stop-go rush hour traffic. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have stalled the Civic atleast 2 to 3 times. I've almost never stalled my old Optra 1.8 in 6 years - it was frankly brilliant in stop-go traffic. The low end torque of the Honda Civic is truly appalling.

Only 5% of my driving is in rush hour traffic - so I don't pull out my hair too often when I'm in the Civic. But if you are planning to buy Honda Civic manual and if most of your commute will be in stop-go-stop-go traffic, well, good luck baldy!



LUKEWARM:

Ground Clearance: All that reports about Honda Civic scraping the underbody on road humps is really blown out of proportion. Yes, I have scraped the underbody on "Nelamangala Tumkur Road" humps - but its because of poor design of the road humps on that road. My old Optra, my brother's Alto scrapes there too - even a Tata Indica.

However, all those reports and the scraping experience has freaked me out and I drive real slow on road humps. "Phew" comes out whenever I corss a largish road hump.

City Driveability: Since I'm quite used to Optra 1.8's city driveability, I initially found Civic to be "underpowered". But after a few kms, I learnt how to drive the Civic in the city - in a gear lower than what you would in a normal car. Basically, if the car speed is below 10 km/hr (like when crossing a road hump or making a turn), one has to shift to the first gear.

Since gear shifting is a joy in the Civic, this is one compromise I love to make. Unless you are in stop-go rush hour traffic, driving the Civic inside a city is a joy - but you need to be ready to shift gears.

Music System: Honda Civic's stock 6 speaker music system is just about average. My old Optra 1.8 LT's 8 speaker music system was a lot better in clarity & bass reproduction. Plus, Honda Civic does not have steering mounted audio controls.


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2611.jpg


However, the volume button is quite large and easily "falls" in my hand - so I don't miss audio controls on steering wheel much. Also, the music quality is not exactly terrible - the sound quality will suit 90% of car owners, including me. So I don't plan to change the music system as of now.

Driver Seat Comfort: The driver seat is extremely comfortable, but unfortunately, the seat is made of slightly softer materials than what I like. Basically, it is good enough for 3 hour highway drives, but after that, your bum starts hurting. You have to take a break after 3 hours.

Optra 1.8's seat was a little firmer, and even a 4 - 5 hour continuous drive would still keep my bum happy.

Ride Quality: The Honda Civic's ride quality at slow speeds is just about average. Optra, Punto & even the Alto does a lot better. However, Civic's ride quality is good at higher speeds on the highways - you don't have to slow down on bad stretches.


HOT:

Looks: Blah blah blah, yada yada yada. And I'm beginning to like the colour too.


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2624.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2625.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2682.jpg


The rear looks a bit fussy, but I have enhanced the look with a Team-BHP sticker.

Interiors: More blah blah blah - you have already heard this before. I discovered that the dash too is made of soft touch plastics, just like the door plastics. Nice place to be in, overall.

Back Seat Comfort: I tested the backseat comfort of the Honda Civic for around 120 km. Now I understand Honda's logic of providing music system controls at the back. Neat touch. The backseat is surprisingly roomy & comfortable even for a 6 footer like me.


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2676.jpg


Because of the large glass area, visibility is top class from the back seat. By the way, I finally found a good place for Lord Ganesha on the curvy dashboard

Auto AC: The airconditioner is super-powerful and throws out the hot air inside a parked car within 60 seconds. I set the Auto AC to 25 degrees and I've noticed that my fuel efficiency is oddly improving. The compressor almost shuts off when its cloudy outside, saving fuel.

Rev Happy Engine: I have never crossed 4000 RPM in the Optra 1.8, because it sounds so rough and there is not much acceleration after that. But the Civic - its another story. Oh boy, what a sound and what acceleration.

Tyres: My Yokohama A-drive 205/65 R15 is extremely grippy, even on wet winding roads. Although I was pushing the car a little bit more at every hairpin, I couldn't get the tyres to "squeal" and lose grip. Will try to push harder the next time! However, the Yokohama A-drives are slightly noisier on the highway.

Fuel Efficiency: I got only 8.2 kmpl in the city on my first full tank. But as I changed my driving style to suit the Civic, I got 9.3 kmpl (with AC on). But after I discovered Auto AC 25 degrees feature, I think I might get close to 10 kmpl this time


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2712.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2713.jpg


On the highway, I got close to 15 kmpl on a full tank. My driving style was - AC off 80% of the time, did not cross 100 kmph, cruising speed of 75 kmph and gear changes mostly at 2000 RPM but never crossing 3000 RPM.



SUPER HOT:

Highway Driveability: High speed stability is excellent. The fourth gear is a devastating tool on winding roads. It pulls from 40 kmph like a train in the 4th gear. You don't need to downshift unless its a hairpin turn.

Driving Pleasure: I'm beginning to wonder if any other car could be any better than the Honda Civic. The steering feels heavy at all speeds and the feedback from the steering wheel is excellent. City & highway driving is a joy just because of the way the steering feels. The short throw gearshift makes a lovely mild "thunk" sound everytime you shift. And the positioning of the gearshift is perfect too - falls perfectly in hand with the arm rest supporting my arm.



CONCLUSION:

Honda Civic - Unbelievably terrible in rush hour traffic, pretty good in city and unbelievably brilliant on highways & winding ghat roads.

Last edited by smartcat : 10th July 2010 at 12:55.
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Old 11th July 2010, 16:45   #93
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Nice review update, Smartcat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Words cannot describe how poor the Honda Civic is in stop-go-stop-go rush hour traffic.
I remember your disagreeing with the poor low end torque comment in my review .

This is very easy to resolve. Let the monsoons get done, after which I get engine mods for my car, will comment on the driveability and you can duplicate the same.

Quote:
All that reports about Honda Civic scraping the underbody on road humps is really blown out of proportion.
I completely agree. In 4,500 kms of driving (including 4 highway trips), I have scraped my Civic only once on a particularly tall tollway speed bump. Must add it was a hard knock though.

Quote:
Since gear shifting is a joy in the Civic, this is one compromise I love to make.
Very sure-slotting shifts.

Quote:
The driver seat is extremely comfortable, but unfortunately, the seat is made of slightly softer materials than what I like.
The leather seats of the V variant are pretty firm. No such complaints.

Quote:
you have already heard this before. I discovered that the dash too is made of soft touch plastics, just like the door plastics. Nice place to be in, overall

[left]Back Seat Comfort: I tested the backseat comfort of the Honda Civic for around 120 km. Now I understand Honda's logic of providing music system controls at the back. Neat touch. The backseat is surprisingly roomy & comfortable even for a 6 footer like me.
The interior space & quality are a redeeming factor. No other C+ segment sedan matches the Civic on space.

Quote:
I have never crossed 4000 RPM in the Optra 1.8, because it sounds so rough and there is not much acceleration after that. But the Civic - its another story. Oh boy, what a sound and what acceleration.
Move over to synthetic oil and feel the magic! My car is far more revv-happy, compared to the time I brought her home. This engine is a joy to work between 3,000 - 7,000 rpms....especially on the twisties.

Drive safe, Smartcat.
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Old 12th July 2010, 15:13   #94
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New update -> The CD player is not working. Gives a blinking "MECH ERROR" message. I'm unable to remove the CDs too. I guess I'll have to make do with AUX in and FM radio till the next service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I remember your disagreeing with the poor low end torque comment in my review .
Oh, hehe. You still remember.

Quote:
This is very easy to resolve. Let the monsoons get done, after which I get engine mods for my car, will comment on the driveability and you can duplicate the same.
Yes, waiting for that. I'm ready to drive down to Mumbai to get this fixed - if there is nobody in Bangalore to get the job done.
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Old 12th July 2010, 16:22   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
New update -> The CD player is not working. Gives a blinking "MECH ERROR" message. I'm unable to remove the CDs too. I guess I'll have to make do with AUX in and FM radio till the next service.
Or better yet, get the ICE upgraded

Quote:
Yes, waiting for that. I'm ready to drive down to Mumbai to get this fixed - if there is nobody in Bangalore to get the job done.
Smartcat, the Bangalore tuning scene is atleast 10X superior to Bombay! The talent is all down south.
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Old 12th July 2010, 19:24   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
City Driveability: Since I'm quite used to Optra 1.8's city driveability, I initially found Civic to be "underpowered". But after a few kms, I learnt how to drive the Civic in the city - in a gear lower than what you would in a normal car. Basically, if the car speed is below 10 km/hr (like when crossing a road hump or making a turn), one has to shift to the first gear.
I think the fact that Honda engine has higher Torque rating at higher RPMs makes you use lower gears than normal.
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Old 14th July 2010, 01:00   #97
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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The rear looks a bit fussy
+1 to that. Have often wondered it would look better if all the badges except the 'H' logo were removed.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:06   #98
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Just came back from another highway trip (900 km, half of which was on wet winding roads). After this trip, I can comment a bit more on Civic's handling qualities - it is almost impossible to get it to understeer! Although it sounds cliched, Civic's front end grips the road like a leech. If you push it a bit more on winding roads, the rear end loses grip first - but only slightly (not uncontrollably). Note that this was on wet roads, with a passenger in the backseat and 3 luggage bags in the boot.

Some Civic pics from the trip -


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2714.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2790.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2831.jpg


Yet Another Pre-Owned Honda Civic!-img_2883.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Smartcat, the Bangalore tuning scene is atleast 10X superior to Bombay! The talent is all down south.
Just discovered that RaceDynamics is a Bangalore based company!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnk77 View Post
I think the fact that Honda engine has higher Torque rating at higher RPMs makes you use lower gears than normal.
The 4th gear is surprisingly potent though. Pulls fairly well from 30 kph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
+1 to that. Have often wondered it would look better if all the badges except the 'H' logo were removed.
I actually don't like the lights - there are "too many" of them.

Last edited by smartcat : 19th July 2010 at 16:10.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:27   #99
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Smartcat, the Bangalore tuning scene is atleast 10X superior to Bombay! The talent is all down south.
Bang on GTO! I completely agree. The number of tuned cars (or at least the quality of tuning) in Bangalore has to be better than Delhi+Bombay combined! I am a Delhiite living in Bangy, so am qualified to comment. Thats some compliment.

Somebody on the Forum got a VTEC tuned from RD. Don't know if they specifically tackle low end torque or not, but have heard good things about them.

BTW, I am considering a used CIVIC too. Would you like to put your thoughts on my potential choices :http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-c...ul-garage.html (Suggestions for Overhaul of Garage)

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 19th July 2010 at 16:40.
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Old 7th October 2010, 18:10   #100
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Got the 40,000 km service done - total damage Rs. 25,000.

Wiper Blades: Rs. 814
Rubbing & Polishing (Exterior): Rs. 1,500
Interior/Upholstery Cleaning: Rs. 975
Injection Cleaning: Rs. 550
Emission Test: Rs. 60
Wheel Alignment: Rs. 450
Wheel Balancing: Rs. 400
40000 km service charges: Rs. 1,720
Synthetic Oil: Rs. 2,379
Fuel Stainer: Rs. 3,193
Front & Rear Brake Pads: Rs. 8,720
Wash Fluid: Rs. 44
Retainer: Rs. 183
Oil Filter cartridge: Rs. 155
Air Element Assembly: Rs. 827
Washer Plug Drain: Rs. 18
Brake Pad Replacement Charges: Rs. 730
Wiper Blade Replacement Charges: Rs. 100
VAT & Service Taxes: Rs. 1,943

CD Player Repair: Rs. 1,800 (done at TMC Electronics)
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Old 8th October 2010, 01:23   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Got the 40,000 km service done - total damage Rs. 25,000.
Synthetic Oil: Rs. 2,379
Fuel Stainer: Rs. 3,193
Hi Smartcat,
Good to see you post after a longish gap.

I was wondering which brand & how much oil was used. Synthetic oil across brands is approx 1K per liter in workshops, so the figure of approx Rs.2.4K is puzzling, assuming that the Civic would need nearly 4 liters. As for Rs.3.1K for the fuel strainer which is just another name for the petrol filter. Correct?
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Old 8th October 2010, 12:19   #102
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You are right about the Synthetic oil price - seems really low. No idea about the brand used. The service advisor asked me if I wanted Synthetic oil and I just said "yes". Next time, I'll ask more questions

Yeah, fuel strainer is fuel filter.
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Old 8th October 2010, 12:25   #103
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I left my statement regarding the fuel strainer half way. What I was saying was that it seems too expensive at 3100. So maybe, just maybe they have split the actual cost of the oil and added one part of that to the strainer's actual cost. You know just so that people do not react strongly towards 4000+ bucks for the oil. That also explains the fancy 'fuel strainer' rather than the plain Jane 'fuel filter'.
I know it sounds far fetched but you never know.

Last edited by khoj : 8th October 2010 at 12:27.
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Old 8th October 2010, 13:06   #104
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25K is a lot isn't it? But on further analysis I can see that you've opted for the exterior and interior cleaning package.
Regarding the fuel strainer, I read something about it in ACI spare parts survey but don't recollect it now.

Do you feel any difference in the car's behavior post the service? I'm keen to know the difference between Mobil 1 and the synthetic oil used by Honda.

Cheers
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Old 8th October 2010, 15:03   #105
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Yes, I too vaguely recall the Autocar India parts survey mentioning that Honda Civic's fuel filter costs was the highest in its category.

Rs. 25,000 is neither high nor low - I have paid similar amounts for the Optra service (60,000 km one I think). My Honda service advisor did mention that the 40,000 km service was a "major" one, and that future ones won't be so expensive.

Exterior rubbing and polishing was a waste of money - the car looks the same. Interior/leather cleaning was worth it though.

Car drives well now, no complaints. The service adivsor mentioned that "engine mounts has a crack" and it costs Rs. 8,000 to replace them. But apparently, its not a serious issue and that he will recheck those mounts when I get the car for the next service (45,000 km).

Meanwhile, I hope the engine doesn't fall off.
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