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Old 19th July 2010, 15:35   #166
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Originally Posted by Flash777 View Post
First Impressions: Lets face it...Its not in the league of an S10/Palio GTX as far as hot hatches go, they are still the benchmark, until the Polo 1.6 arrives atleast. But this is the only Fiat car at present which comes closest. Dynamics are class leading, Power could have been better, but not as bad as ppl have made it out to be. In fact, its pretty good and shall get better once run in. Its a properly loaded car which is built like a tank and goes like a torque train. Just becoz we had higher expectations doesn't make it a bad car. It wud end up doin 0-100 runs in late 13s or 14s as against 12 we had expected it to do. But as many have already stated, what is power when it cannot be effectively used? This car would post the best track times than any other production hatches at present and tht for me is wat constitutes a hot hatch.

Summing Up: Now, let me ask which other manufacturer is trying to atleast make an effort and give it a shot for the enthusiasts? Among the hatches, Fiat is the only one till now who've attempted to give us an GTX/S10 and now the VGT Punto. I don't remember any other car maker, who despite knowing tht Indians crave for mileage, cudnt get to manufacture 'Made for India' light bodied cars but instead gave rock solid tank like hatches and suffered on FE. I don't know of any other car maker who despite knowing the avg joe prefers light, easy to maneuver steerings, still always gave us heavy, meaty and communicative steerings. I dont remember which other car maker took customer feedback and enthusiast's cries and tried to atleast improve upon its products. Autocar, Motoroids and some other websites have already mentioned tht the quality of the plastics is much better than earlier. And do u think this almost 8 lacs OTR car is going to sell in great no.'s??? No!!! I don't think this model would bring any significant difference to Fiat's sales charts. They cud hav done without it too. This was simply an 'attempt' to bring a relatively more powerful engine without compromising on the FE . An attempt by Fiat to get back to the enthusiast community. An attempt which not many manufacturers are doing right now except put some gaudy decal and call it sport while it handles like a boat.

And for this, I give it to Fiat! Get on the Linea Tjet then....

You have sum it up very well, Flash. 5 Stars to u

I wish everyone reads your post and understand FIAT is just like another car but with a soul!

But still i agree with Sid, they had a good chance to give a Premium feel with this launch. Come on, its a 7.5L car and I wont ever accept it with misaligned plastics or huge gaps if at all present!

Would be waiting for GTO's review to see if his test car too has the same issues.
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:41   #167
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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
as said by me in the other thread regarding "fiat being politically incorrect for calling the punto the fastest diesel hatch , a tag which is held by the i20 if mag reviews were anything to go by".
I think Punto should be the fastest diesel hatch now since Getz is discontinued. It should reach 180 Kmph comfortably if fifth gear is slightly taller than Linea. Linea reaches 170 Kmph (real speed, not on speedo) at 4500 rpm in fifth gear and torque at 4500 rpm is way lesser than the peak. If i20 is indeed heavier than Punto, Punto has got to be faster than i20.

Last edited by opendro : 19th July 2010 at 15:44.
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:44   #168
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I dont see many Fiat Punto owners themselves complaining of poor performance or horrible plastics even from their FGT's. We are talking about VGT here.
Even I am talking about the new VGT, reports don't indicate wildy exciting improvement which most folks were expecting from the 90 Hp motor. I own a FIAT Punto Active too (in case you missed it), it has adequate performance (not wildly exciting) and below par plastics (on days this might seem like an understatement ..and I have complained about it on many threads before). The engine performance could have been better, thats becasue a rival company with the same engine is doing a better job at tuning the same engine and as for the plastics...they are not what you should expect in a hatch thats worth 5.2 - 7+ lacs...Period ! Whether you want to call them Bad/Horrible/pathetic, I'll leave the choice of words to you. With the new 90 hp motor, it was a simple case of getting some 1st/2nd gear excitement for some more dough (read 50 K odds) which hasn't quite happened. I know of a lot of guys who were okay with the current 75 hp version, but were waiting for the 90 hp, hoping for that noticeable performance difference but none has been reported so far.

- B4W
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:59   #169
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i got a couple of friends who have the i20 diesel, inspite of great interiors, the car has started to rattle like a baby's rattle with just barely over 20000 kms. Great plastic quality to give you solace right?
I20, Rattling like baby rattles ?? I wont believe this. Hyundai's build quality is probably the best in segment. Forget I20, even 30K done santro refuses to rattle a bit. Dont know about engine tuning but few manufacturers should take lessons from Hyundai on how to build cars better (and still cheaper). I think in this regard Hyundai stands segment benchmark.
Disclaimer: I drive a Maruti.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:08   #170
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The engine performance could have been better, thats becasue a rival company with the same engine is doing a better job at tuning the same engine
You can't expect the 'same engine' to perform the same in a considerably heavier car. Is it that difficult to understand?
To answer the next part of your post - the reviews have been contradictory. On one hand you have BSM which says there is a 3.8 seconds improvement in 0-100 kph times and that is some performance improvement and on the other hand is Autocar which claims a 1.5 second improvement, which is not so good.
Yes plastic quality is an area of concern and some of bit and pieces are plain horrible but overall I wouldnt ever say that they are pathetic like many in this thread have been saying which quite frankly is taking it too far.

We also have to remember that each car has its USP which in case of Punto is segment busting solidity, ride and handling. Fiat's were never famous for the best plastic quality in the segment (but I would agree that the older Palio's were as good as it gets) so its a matter of prioritizing your expectations. Some will and some won't but that is precisely the reason why we have options
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:18   #171
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You can't expect the 'same engine' to perform the same in a considerably heavier car.
If you think that the extra 100kg of Punto makes it slower to Swift, then your assumption is wrong. A Swift with 5people on board is still quicker than a Punto with just a driver alone.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:19   #172
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Originally Posted by Ajay_J View Post
I20, Rattling like baby rattles ?? I wont believe this. Hyundai's build quality is probably the best in segment. Forget I20, even 30K done santro refuses to rattle a bit. Dont know about engine tuning but few manufacturers should take lessons from Hyundai on how to build cars better (and still cheaper). I think in this regard Hyundai stands segment benchmark.
Disclaimer: I drive a Maruti.
Any car can rattle. I have seen BMW's with rattling problems. Its mainly how the car is driven. Some people won't slow down while going through pot holes, which can make any car rattle after a period of time. Otherwise i think there should be no rattles in i20 as my friend owns one and it has done 10k+ km.

Quote:
If you think that the extra 100kg of Punto makes it slower to Swift, then your assumption is wrong. A Swift with 5people on board is still quicker than a Punto with just a driver alone.
I think its due to the gear ratios that PUNTO is slow. PUNTO 75 BHP sold in Europe does a 0-100 dash in 14 secs.

Last edited by abhibh : 19th July 2010 at 16:20.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:23   #173
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I think its due to the gear ratios that PUNTO is slow. PUNTO 75 BHP sold in Europe does a 0-100 dash in 14 secs.
Exactly! It's the Gearbox and the gear ratios, and not the weight of the car, that played spoilsport in Punto's performance.

Again, a Swift with 5people on board will still have a better fuel efficiency than a Punto with just a driver alone.

The culprit that did it for the Punto is the Gear box which is no match to what the competitors offer. Unfortunately, whatever Fiat extracted maximum out of it is what we have got. An Euro Gear box like the one in the Swift would have turned the tables.
But, why Fiat did not do that, only Fiat can answer.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 19th July 2010 at 16:37.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:33   #174
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After 15k running my observations about the Punto :

1. No falling plastics (in spite of the apparent poor quality)
2. Engine has considerably opened up : feels a completely different car from what it was when it was new.
3. No rattles
4. Have not faced any problem with sourcing parts
5. Had some queries about spare parts pricing : escalated issue to Fiat. Turn around time for resolving the query (in both cases) : was less than one hour. So no issues on the service fronts.
6. You know what I like the most : the roads feel better than what they are thanks to the ride quality of this car.
7. Only one visit to the service station for the routine service over the 15k running period.

I don't give a damn about the ECU tuning and plastic quality issues because they haven't really bothered me ever. I think Fiat knows what they are doing. They promised a car with good build and ride quality and good fuel efficiency. They are delivering on both fronts. I (and for that matter any Punto owner) does not really care about a "well tuned but rattling multijet" beating a Punto off the signal.

Last edited by amoghchaphalkar : 19th July 2010 at 16:43.
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Old 19th July 2010, 16:55   #175
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
You can't expect the 'same engine' to perform the same in a considerably heavier car. Is it that difficult to understand?
To answer the next part of your post - the reviews have been contradictory. On one hand you have BSM which says there is a 3.8 seconds improvement in 0-100 kph times and that is some performance improvement and on the other hand is Autocar which claims a 1.5 second improvement, which is not so good.
Yes plastic quality is an area of concern and some of bit and pieces are plain horrible but overall I wouldnt ever say that they are pathetic like many in this thread have been saying which quite frankly is taking it too far.

We also have to remember that each car has its USP which in case of Punto is segment busting solidity, ride and handling. Fiat's were never famous for the best plastic quality in the segment (but I would agree that the older Palio's were as good as it gets) so its a matter of prioritizing your expectations. Some will and some won't but that is precisely the reason why we have options
Hi extreme_torque,
Somehow I don't trust BSM with their performance figures. They say the i20 crdi does 0-100kmph in 11.12 secs. Its definitely not that fast. On the other hand, I hope they are right about punto 90bhp. It would be a fun car to drive. Its upto the prospective owners to check the car out themselves rather than depend on a magazine's review. One back to back test drive with the 75bhp & 90bhp would give the answer.

Btw, are the test cars out with the dealers now? I plan to buy one in Jan 2011 and this car/T-jet is on my list(or rather my wife's).

Last edited by shivasuma : 19th July 2010 at 16:58.
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:08   #176
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+1 to what Amogh has said above. I am also a FGT Punto owner for past 9 months and my car has run 12000+ kms on different types of terrains. The 7 points laid out by Amogh is applicable exactly for me as well except the point 5 where I had no queries on part pricing.

The only part replaced by me till date is the reverse lamp mounted on the back bumper which was damaged when a hyundai accent banged me from behind. The head lamps broke for the Hyundai accent with the front bumper lying on the road. For the Punto, I had a misaligned bumper and a broken reverse lamp. The mialigned bumper was put in place in 2 minutes at TASC and the broken reverse lamp replaced in about an hour.
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:13   #177
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The car specs and performance on-road is really secondary, IMHO Fiat first needs to really fix their delearships. Walked into Concorde Motors near Diary Circle on Satarday morning and asked for a test drive, the sales guy simply refused, the reason given "Sir we are not sure of the on-road price yet, so we cant start with test drives yet". Absolute nonsense. However was promised a test drive the next morning at my door step, no points for guessing, nobody turned up !!
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:24   #178
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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Exactly! It's the Gearbox and the gear ratios, and not the weight of the car, that played spoilsport in Punto's performance.

Again, a Swift with 5people on board will still have a better fuel efficiency than a Punto with just a driver alone.

The culprit that did it for the Punto is the Gear box which is no match to what the competitors offer. Unfortunately, whatever Fiat extracted maximum out of it is what we have got. An Euro Gear box like the one in the Swift would have turned the tables.
But, why Fiat did not do that, only Fiat can answer.
So you are also saying that they fitted a worse gearbox in the Ritz because its slower too??? What a shame!
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:40   #179
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
So you are also saying that they fitted a worse gearbox in the Ritz because its slower too??? What a shame!

Swift has overdrive in 4th and 5th gear

Gear ratio 4th - 0.911

Gear Ratio 5th- 0.725

Where as people have reported than the engine gets too noisy and boomy above 100 kmph in the punto because of the short gear ratios, I have cruised all day long in the Swift D at 140+ speeds with neither a hint of speed or noise inside.
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Old 19th July 2010, 17:53   #180
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I can't call you for a drag... can I?
Whether one likes it or not, a fact is a fact. I have been driving the Punto for over 22000km now and have driven the Swift for some thousands of Kilometers too. What I've written is what I had experienced in both these cars.

It's better to speak with a considerable amount of experience than to speak out from plain ignorance to these cars or from little experience in driving these cars.

I love the Punto, that's the reason I bought it. I want Punto to get better in certain things and one being a better gear box and gear ratios. Out of fanboism, I can remain saying Punto is the best. But I want the car to improve from what it is now. I'm not bothered whether it is better than the competition or not and whether the competition offers what the Punto offers, what I want is to see the car improving from what it is now.

It would be really appreciable if you could disrobe your fanboism before making posts!

Last edited by CliffHanger : 19th July 2010 at 17:57.
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