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Old 15th July 2010, 15:01   #61
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Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
Sid, FIAT india website hasnt been QA'ed properly. Did you try selecting Hybrid/CNG/Electric/LPG to check if you have got any results?
Sorry but I fail to understand what results are you talking about? It's just an Opinion Poll, ain't it?
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:02   #62
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Which is better VFM and fun to drive?
1.2 Petrol - 5.2L
1.4 Petrol - Emotion Pack -6.3L
1.3 Diesel - Emotion Pack - 6.9L
1.3 Diesel - 90HP - Emotion Pack - 7.5L Estimated
1.2 i20 Astra - 6L (No Sun Roof version)
1.2 120 Astra O - 6.4L (with Sun Roof Version)
1.4 CRDI Astra - 7.5L
Neither the Punto nor i20 are about VFM. If you want bang for the buck, look at the Swift or a Figo + Petes.

The i20 fully-loaded diesel costs 6.95 lakhs, about 20,000 more than the FGT Punto. I am honestly at a loss for words as to how Fiat intends to price the VGT. The FGT is already close, the VGT may be as / more expensive than the i20 1.4!!

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I dont have much experience with diesel engines but my opinion is based on by friend's Punto which I drove when brand new and just yesterday when its almost 10k kms old. I am terribly confused between the Figo and the Punto and while the Figo feels faster, Punto masks speed like no other.
Totally. Diesels, whether old-school or common-rails, feel way better after having 10,000 kms under their belt. Also, they really come onto their own only after 20,000 though.

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I think its more to do with being tuned for fuel efficiency.
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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
But FIAT has already learnt a lesson in a hard way of fuel guzzlers tag.

Now when they are trying to get rid of the fuel guzzlers tag, the performance issue creeps up. For FIAT is its not a bed of roses, rather a a bed of thorns.

All the best FIAT
You guys have hit the nail right on the head! A Fiat, with its solid build (and resultant weight) will NEVER be a fuel-efficiency topper. Plus, you'd be a fool to tune your high-performance variant for FE. After all, those who only care about economy have the lesser FGT variant to choose. But tuning a much-awaited enthusiasts hatch for fuel-efficiency is a big no-no. Then, there's the question of being a premium hatch, but providing interior fit & finish that's worse off than a humble Ford Figo!

Therein lies Fiat's problem. A complete lack of focus. You can't please everyone, and everyone isn't buying Fiats. Know your target market and pursue them at any and all costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
I was told by Hyundai salesmen in Pune that they are struggling to sell 1.4 CRDi's and the petrol variants to diesel variants sales ratio is 7:1 (in festive - peak sales season it goes to around 10:1)
Another problem : A mega-brand like Hyundai struggles to sell a 6.95 lakh rupee diesel hatch. What chance does Fiat have? India is ready to shell out 6 - 6.5 lakhs OTR for a premium hatch, though I'm not too sure about 7.5 - 8.0 lakhs OTR.
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:05   #63
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Ex-Showroom Delhi
Punto 1.2 Active - 4.29L
Punto 1.2 Dynamic - 4.60L
Punto 1.2 Emotion - 4.90L
Punto 1.4 Emotion - 5.41L
Punto 1.4 Emotion Pk - 6.00L
Punto 1.3 Active - 5.12L
Punto 1.3 Dynamic - 5.46L
Punto 1.3 Emotion - 5.90L
Punto 1.3 Emotion PK - 6.46L
Punto 1.3 Emotion PK(VGT) - 6.96L (anticipated guess cannot exceed that of i20 CRDi Asta)

I think all of us here on TBHP are having too much of expectations from the 90 BHP Punto. But IMHO from a Fiat's perspective they just don't target enthusiasts like us here. They are here to sell cars to the general population and make some money as well. With cut throat competetion in hatchback segment, you can't expect pricing to be too high. What they have given here is an already available engine from a Linea made available for a Punto solely for few enthusiasts and at the same time keep the costs down.(Reuse of most of already available parts expect for cosmetic changes which got borrowed from Linea).

So if you look at the variants lists it basically has catered to all levels in the segment. They did launch 1.2 in Dynamic and Emotion so that it can be more affordable to the masses and not just for enthusiasts. For enthusiasts anyway there is always 1.4 & 1.3 and now the 1.3 MJD VGT in E Pk.
They already must be selling the 1.3 MJD in considerable numbers so why would they discontinue it, as someone was mentioning on the thread that they should. The way I see it they have given more bhp to the diesel lovers.

And why is everyone expecting interiors to improve significantly or a separate plastic quality per se on the VGT. Does it make sense to have a separate assembly line for it, How many of those would they sell anyway. This is not a Punto facelift to have such expectations. But at the same time its true Fiat has to improve on these small plasticky niggles across variants. Looking at i20Asta's CRDi pricing this one has to be priced competitively and I am sure will be done by Fiat.
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:08   #64
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GTO, Indias would prefer to stretch their budget by another 30-40k and get a sedan rather than shell out 7 - 8Lakhs for a permium hatch. *I might be also wrong, this is based ont he feedback given by people around me*
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:16   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The i20 fully-loaded diesel costs 6.95 lakhs, about 20,000 more than the FGT Punto. I am honestly at a loss for words as to how Fiat intends to price the VGT. The FGT is already close, the VGT may be as / more expensive than the i20 1.4!!
I was shocked at i20's price when I looked at your post and checked the prices online.
Quoting the Ex-Showroom Prices, Mumbai

i20 Diesel Asta BS IV is Rs 729,012
Punto 1.3 MJD EP is Rs 667,536

A difference of more than 62k's. Factor in the discounts on the Punto and the difference is more.
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Old 15th July 2010, 15:56   #66
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Punto diesel delhi:
  • active=5,12,845
  • dynamic=5,46,489
  • emotion=5,90,321
  • emotion pack=6,46,390
I 20 diesel delhi:
  • era=5,73,154
  • magna=6,13,154
  • sportz=6,38,154 (add 15,000 for alloys)
  • asta=6,95,157
Comparable models are listed-base models have a 60K difference, and higher models have a 40K difference.

I20 gets a VGT in all models plus a bigger capacity engine plus a high torque plus all round refinement, fit and finish and some features mix here and there. Three out of 4 models are equipped with ACC and USB/AUX-in stereo.

Punto gains in high speed behaviour, ride and handling plus styling and front comfort. But crucial factors like A.S.S. quality and overall refinement/finesse are still way short. it doesn't make sense to talk about discounts.
How many more are they able to sell after all with discounts? Sales are flat at 900-1200 units with 9 variants. And I20 diesel sales have steadily gone up after cheaper variants have been introduced.

Whatever the perspective, it is an opportunity gone lost by punto 90 HP. And many of you seem to not care about the so called interior plastic and talk about ride and handling, does the Indian mass market agree with us? The answer is a big no.

And assume the punto is priced 30,000 more than the FGT, the high road taxes in delhi means that it can touch the 7,50,000 mark. Again, lets not talk discounts.
The mass market is accepting the I20 without any discounts without a fuss and fiat is offering big time confidence boosters yet has failed to manage any sales increase.

And let me ask you all again-will you accept this in a 7.5 lakh rupee car? My 40 percent less priced santro has far better quality than this.

And only those who have time to bear headache and go to TASS could care about it.
Attached Thumbnails
First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-dsc05153.jpg  

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-dsc05156.jpg  

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-dsc05158.jpg  

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-dsc05161.jpg  

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Old 15th July 2010, 16:02   #67
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Yes, its an opinion poll but something is surely cooking. I answered but gave fake details and my defunct number. Just a popup box comes saying "thank you for your submission" and then the website comes back to normal.

And this review is about a stock factory tuned 90 HP punto. Lets not discuss aftermarket tuning here and kindly don't use any abusive words.

If you like the car, buy it, if you don't, nobody is forcing you all. Lets not get sentimental about the brand "Fiat", as its always been. Its a normal diesel hatchback fighting it out with 7-8 other choices in the market, not any special edition or a jazzy stuff.

Last edited by sidindica : 15th July 2010 at 16:08.
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Old 15th July 2010, 16:10   #68
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all our FGT punto's are running much better after covering about 10k kms. I have a feeling even the VGT will perform better once it has run in.
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Old 15th July 2010, 16:17   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
GTO, Indias would prefer to stretch their budget by another 30-40k and get a sedan rather than shell out 7 - 8Lakhs for a permium hatch. *I might be also wrong, this is based ont he feedback given by people around me*
I agree, but let us assume that there will be approx 10K people who go for a premium hatch with the thought: "what's the point of going for an entry-level sedan when you can buy a premium hatch?".
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Old 15th July 2010, 17:13   #70
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Great Review Sid, The news that Punto is a not a performer did not come as shock to me. After reading the reviews at various places and considering the fact that the gear ratios are mainly unchanged i knew this car won't be as good performer as the 90hp badge suggests. Anyone who is in desperate need of a Diesel car that performs should buy a i20 CRDi with his eyes closed.

I just got a call from the local Fiat dealer informing me that Punto 90hp is available for TD, Most probably i'll TD the car tomorrow.

@Sid: Any idea about the pricing details?
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Old 16th July 2010, 05:06   #71
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The point about interior quality is something Fiat needs to understand and understand fast. However, if I had the option of the 90Hp model, and it were only 30-35K more, I'd go for it without batting an eyelid. I understand that the majority in India won't (and don't ). Also, I'd chose this car over the i20 CRDi simply because of the great dynamics the car brings to the table despite the econo-concious gear ratio ratios. Like the Verna, I don't find the i20 confidence inspiring, nor does it communicate to me as a driver in the same way. I wish they had better quality plastics, but to me, the i20 just doesn't pass muster.

I hope they get the pricing right.
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Old 16th July 2010, 06:57   #72
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Originally Posted by sandeepmdas View Post
I agree, but let us assume that there will be approx 10K people who go for a premium hatch with the thought: "what's the point of going for an entry-level sedan when you can buy a premium hatch?".
percentage of people prefering to buy a premium hatch as against entry level sedan may be restricted to very few. If Punto VGT 90 hp is going to 8L OTR, can anyone list the Sedans which come in this price bracket, give or take 30k.
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Old 16th July 2010, 08:26   #73
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I have great respect for Fiat for churning out good solid cars that have great balance of ride and handling. But going by this thread I guess they missed out a bit in coming up with a clear winner with the 90hp Punto.

The current Punto is as such a terrific car to drive, so they should have looked for a fair bit of improvement in outright performance.

I wonder how the FE will differ between the 75hp and the 90hp versions.

That said, I saw some posts here deriding the i20 Diesel, primarily for its handling. I found it a bit strange.

I wonder, is there something wrong with me or do all others drive cars completely differently? I have an i20 diesel that has completed around 5000+ km with two 900+km long drives thrown in with a good part of it at decent speeds on the highways, and also some serious ghat sections. Not for a moment have I felt the i20 lacking in handling, or losing its composure.

I believe I represent a regular driver in the way I drive my car in how I chuck the car around corners etc. I guess for such a driver i20's handling is more than ok. I am not into those heart-in-your-mouth kind of maneouvers around tight curves, or those crazy slaloms in the highways.

Maybe Punto is more composed around curves and sudden direction changes at very high speeds . But with my style of driving ( I drive fairly fast when the road allows it, but I dont take too much risks on narrow/winding roads ), I guess i20 can do pretty well. Maybe, just maybe, Punto has that extra composure required for real enthusiasts who chuck the cars around tight corners etc, but in my view for a real-world driving requirement, most of the current cars handle pretty well.

I believe handling is a bit overhyped as we get carried away by auto mag reviews who believe that all cars should have handling capabilities of rally/race cars to go from point A to point B.

Having said all this, I have had to "swerve the car at 90kph and above" a few times, to avoid some stupid vehicles that jump into my lane from the opposite direction in the highway, but not for a moment did I feel the vehicle losing composure.

my 2 cents - sorry for the OT comment.

Last edited by Bigzero : 16th July 2010 at 08:29.
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Old 16th July 2010, 08:52   #74
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Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post
I think all of us here on TBHP are having too much of expectations from the 90 BHP Punto.
Well, introducing 15 bhp more from the staple model is supposed be for enthusiasts. And if they are creating one, they should have tuned it for performance.

Funny as it sounds, I guess FIAT should go get training from Maruti to tune the 1.3 MJD to suit an enthusiast.
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Old 16th July 2010, 10:02   #75
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Having driven a GTX for 6 years and a swift for 1 year, my comments would be .

If fiat is producing a MJD with 15 horses extra, there will definitely be something out of it. The way Palios and Puntos drive on bad and good roads at high speeds , the thrill and the safety it gives is of no comparision to any car in the segment.

IMO, we should wait for a detailed test report and ownership for that matter as we have seen owners very pleased with the mill after 10k run with the Punto 1.3.

GTO !! waiting for a detailed report.

Swift is a true value for money product , but as in a previous post , Fiat engineers are one of the best to tune the engines , but every car has a tuning style to suit the dynamics , I personally had a terrible incident with the swift , its probably a bit too performing like the diesel verna (i own a verna now). For higher performance , the entire car has to have the capability to go along at all parameters. Japanese cars have their own merits..

As with regards to the takers for the Punto 90, every car has a target customer, my wife used to ask me why i held a car for 6 years after seeing me visiting the work shop regularly, but here i am waiting for another good fiat car. Enthusiasts will always buy performance cars. It will be intersting if fiat really fails to bring something extra with this car.

By the by , somewherein the net i read that the current gear box cannot support more torque from the engine , if needed they need a new one and thats why torque has not gone up. Is it true? Auto gurus, please comment

Oh!!!! when will my wait be over for my replacement for GTX. If my wait is going end less for another 1 year for a good fiat engine, I might need buy her back from the current owner!!!!
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