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Old 17th July 2010, 02:47   #106
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Originally Posted by srinath34 View Post
IMHO, the Grande Punto 90HP shares the stage with the i20 CRDi only in the price range. In all other areas the i20 literally smokes the GP. Why can't Fiat take some notes from the Swift DDiS ECU mappings and incorporated it in the GP 90 to make it more fun given the brilliant chassis it has to throw around.
Other than plastic quality and outright acceleration, name an area where the i20 smokes the GP.
Secondly you need to read through the thread to know what's been mentioned thus far, it includes the "why" the ECU tuning is not like the Swift's.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:20   #107
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Other than plastic quality and outright acceleration, name an area where the i20 smokes the GP.
Secondly you need to read through the thread to know what's been mentioned thus far, it includes the "why" the ECU tuning is not like the Swift's.
i would say the hyundai has better interiors, more spacious rear seat & most importantly, a better A.S.S & brand image, which will help in the resale value.

P.S.: i love both cars equally.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:29   #108
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Other than plastic quality and outright acceleration, name an area where the i20 smokes the GP.
Secondly you need to read through the thread to know what's been mentioned thus far, it includes the "why" the ECU tuning is not like the Swift's.
Other areas where the i20 scores over Punto is space and brakes. Its just my opinion after testing both of these while buying a car for my parents. I was for Punto. It was cheaper and I did not care much for performance nor really for the lower quality interiors. But my dad shot it down owing to our previous experience of owning 3 fiat cars (Premier 1.37D, 1.38D 118NE and an Uno). My mom did not like the interior compared to the i20. Both cars have their positives and negatives, its no use trying to put down any of the 2 cars. Both are good in their own way. Its just what suits you best.
Don't know much about ECU tuning of swift vs. punto. But I(most of the times) prefer my Fiesta TDCi linear delivery over the I20 turbo rush.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:37   #109
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i would say the hyundai has better interiors, more spacious rear seat & most importantly, a better A.S.S & brand image, which will help in the resale value.

P.S.: i love both cars equally.
You are right, though I had mentioned plastic quality. The point was to focus on hyperbole (refer to the post I had quoted) rather than facts. Both cars have their own set of strengths and on the basis of them my personal choice would be the Punto everyday, but that doesn't meant that I hate the i20, or that the Punto "smokes" the i20.

Edit: Shivasuma appreciate your input, however the fact is, the i20 doesn't have acres more space (then only it'd have smoked the Punto) and I think you didn't drive a Punto in good nick. The brakes on the Punto are superlative. I respect your opinion though, just letting you know mine.

Last edited by Amartya : 17th July 2010 at 10:40.
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Old 17th July 2010, 10:56   #110
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
You are right, though I had mentioned plastic quality. The point was to focus on hyperbole (refer to the post I had quoted) rather than facts. Both cars have their own set of strengths and on the basis of them my personal choice would be the Punto everyday, but that doesn't meant that I hate the i20, or that the Punto "smokes" the i20.

Edit: Shivasuma appreciate your input, however the fact is, the i20 doesn't have acres more space (then only it'd have smoked the Punto) and I think you didn't drive a Punto in good nick. The brakes on the Punto are superlative. I respect your opinion though, just letting you know mine.
Hi Amartya,
I20 has a wee bit more space. Thats why I said its better. On the other hand I dont like the word smokes. I am actually amused when people say my car can smoke this or that car. The punto brakes are very good no doubt but I found I20s to be a tad better. My next car (for my wife, she just loved its looks) was supposed to be a punto/linea but the slow recovery has put the plans on hold for now.
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Old 17th July 2010, 13:25   #111
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Originally Posted by samsan02 View Post
And why is everyone expecting interiors to improve significantly or a separate plastic quality per se on the VGT. Does it make sense to have a separate assembly line for it, How many of those would they sell anyway.
Not a separate assembly line at all. On the contrary, we want excellent interior quality ON THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE. That is, for all Puntos...irrespective of which engine or variant it is.

We have to understand that, for the Punto to widen its appeal, it needs to feel like a premium hatch, inside out. The dude walking into a showroom is going to get completely put off by the uneven panel gaps and lackluster fit & finish on a 7 lakh rupee hatchback. Fit & finish that is defeated by a Ford Figo costing 2 lakhs less. Fiat finds itself in a strange position. The more expensive Linea is actually a mid-segment product and gets away with the interiors. The Punto, however, is positioned at the absolute top of its segment. Net net, the Punto needs better interiors more than the Linea does (as strange as it may sound). When you sit in an i20, it feels like a premium car. Not so with the Punto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I was shocked at i20's price when I looked at your post and checked the prices online.
Quoting the Ex-Showroom Prices, Mumbai
Apologies, my bad.

The difference between the VGT Punto and the i20 is now what, 30K? The premium hatch buyer is less price sensitive than the 4 lakh rupee customer. I doubt this 30K difference will be a deal maker (Punto) or breaker (i20).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
However, if I had the option of the 90Hp model, and it were only 30-35K more, I'd go for it without batting an eyelid.
True. Viewed independently, 30K is a reasonable amount for a FGT -> VGT. Fact is, if I wanted a diesel hatch, the Punto 90 is still my first choice. However, companies don't run based on enthusiasts like ourselves who don't think twice before spending a lakh more on a car, 30 grand on a Petes box, 6 figures on an ICE system or 20 grand on tyre upgrades. Guys like us make for 0.1% of the market, the other 99.9% want a premium feel when they're spending 7.0 lakhs on a hatchback. Fiat doesn't have a premium brand, they might as well atleast give their premium hatch a premium feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigzero View Post
I have an i20 diesel that has completed around 5000+ km with two 900+km long drives thrown in with a good part of it at decent speeds on the highways, and also some serious ghat sections. Not for a moment have I felt the i20 lacking in handling, or losing its composure.

I believe I represent a regular driver in the way I drive my car in how I chuck the car around corners etc. I guess for such a driver i20's handling is more than ok. I am not into those heart-in-your-mouth kind of maneouvers around tight curves, or those crazy slaloms in the highways.
There is nothing wrong with the i20's handling. It's safe & predictable. What it lacks is the feel & Euro stability that us enthusiasts look for. Suffice to say, the i20's limits will never be reached by an overwhelming majority of the owners out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I hear this way too often on T-BHP off late, how Swift having same engine is peppier than Punto. Comparing 1075kg Swift with 1190 kg GP MJD and telling Fiat to learn from Maruti about engine tuning to make it peppy? Well, logic beats me for sure.
The proof is in the pudding : Drive an '09 Swift back to back with an '09 Ritz. Gauge the difference in how their engines feel. Fact is, the Swift has the best tuned engine...better even than the Ritz which feels milder.

Good point on the weight. However, note that the Punto 90 HP's power to weight is 75.63 BHP / ton. It still can't match the Swift's 0 - 100 time, DESPITE having a superior power to weight ratio. Engine tuning is a big deal. After all, it is the engine mapping that decides the power delivery of any modern engine. Maruti & Tata tune their 1.3 MJD implementations themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash777 View Post
Just test drove the VGT Punto.
Nice report, thanks for sharing.
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Old 17th July 2010, 15:35   #112
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Originally Posted by Flash777 View Post
Just test drove the VGT Punto. No!!! I don't think this model would bring any significant difference to Fiat's sales charts. They cud hav done without it too. This was simply an 'attempt' to bring a relatively more powerful engine without compromising on the FE . An attempt by Fiat to get back to the enthusiast community. An attempt which not many manufacturers are doing right now except put some gaudy decal and call it sport while it handles like a boat.

And for this, I give it to Fiat! Get on the Linea Tjet then....
Well put Flash! its true that Fiat is responding well to customers, enthusiasts & media. I personally found a few quality improvements on recent Puntos - the glovebox lock has been modified, beadings are now galvanised, seat height adj. lever is different & also the dash of the 90 HP feels much better.

while we debate on interiors, lets not forget the exterior look of the car that is a million dollars
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Old 17th July 2010, 17:21   #113
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Net net, the Punto needs better interiors more than the Linea does (as strange as it may sound). When you sit in an i20, it feels like a premium car. Not so with the Punto.

However, companies don't run based on enthusiasts like ourselves who don't think twice before spending a lakh more on a car, 30 grand on a Petes box, 6 figures on an ICE system or 20 grand on tyre upgrades. Guys like us make for 0.1% of the market, the other 99.9% want a premium feel when they're spending 7.0 lakhs on a hatchback. Fiat doesn't have a premium brand, they might as well atleast give their premium hatch a premium feel.

There is nothing wrong with the i20's handling. It's safe & predictable. What it lacks is the feel & Euro stability that us enthusiasts look for. Suffice to say, the i20's limits will never be reached by an overwhelming majority of the owners out there.
Absolutely spot on and thats precisely the reason the i20 is selling so much compared to the GP. Even though the 1.2 i20 is supposed to be relatively slow with a not so decent AC. Imagine the backlash if the GP had a not so decent AC. Fact is most of the people who go into the showrooms buy most of the stuff just because of the " feel" they get. So if the "feel" is missing it wil be a no go for them. The same goes for the handling too. I have seen people praise the i20 saying "ekdm smooth" for the steering when they should be saying lifeless. Dare I say that if the GP has some of the safety bits thrown out(which i dont recommend of course) and instead provide better VISIBLE quality for the plastics, the sales will increase.

I do hope that the car Sid drove was a lemon. Becoz if the car Flash drove had better interiors there might be some respite for the GP. But the damage would have already been done by the pics.

Last edited by coldice4u : 17th July 2010 at 17:24.
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Old 17th July 2010, 18:05   #114
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Any idea on the FE figures officially quoted for the car? The car looks awesome and together with the increased HP, it should do good provided it returns good FE figures.
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Old 17th July 2010, 18:13   #115
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As per the PDF avaialable with the fiat official website on 90 HP, its 20km/l.
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Old 17th July 2010, 18:59   #116
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This is what I do not expect on a brand new car inside the showroom costing 7.40 lakh on road delhi.
Its 90 HP emotion pack in tuscan wine on display.

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0241.jpg
its a closed glovebox, not open. even when pushed hard, it will end up like this.

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0243.jpg
ill fitted rubber beading on the right side of the seat belt.

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0247.jpg
the lower joint of the dashboard (one in grey) is misaligned, almost seems like it will come off

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0248.jpg
close up view of the same

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0250.jpg
ignition key hole gap, this has a bit less than the car I drove, still you be the judge.

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0249.jpg
horn pad, check out the gap atop the fitment

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0251.jpg
red stitching looks classy but still a bit odd on full black/grey interiors.

First Drive: Fiat Punto Multi Jet VGT 90 HP-photo0244.jpg
The car I drove had white dials, this one had black dials, like all other normal puntos...how come?

Last edited by sidindica : 17th July 2010 at 19:08.
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Old 17th July 2010, 19:09   #117
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Just got back after having a look at 90HP Punto. Could not do a TD because the car is not registered. Will probably do that sometime next week.

Based on Sid's review, I especially looked for uneven and large panel gaps. Happy to say, that I didn't find anything atrocious. It had regular Punto dials, not Linea-spec ones like Sid's TD car. I just think Sid probably got a pre-production test mule for his TD.

Sat in the car and started it. NVH levels are good. Felt no bad vibrations at idle - I was keeping my hand on the gear lever. Front seats seemed a bit too hard for my liking. Wife was also not very happy with the front seats - after adjusting the backrest, she was happier but not completely satisfied.

Before going to the Tata-Fiat showroom, I also visited the VW showroom to have a look at the Polo. Though I have been quite keen on the Punto for sometime, Polo is too good a car not to consider. The interior quality is better than the Punto, but I couldn't understand what people are raving about. The console looks much more modern than the Punto's. However, wife was not at all happy with the rear legroom. When I pushed the driver's seat all the way back, I found it difficult to sit at the rear - and I'm just under 5'8". My knees and even my ankles were pressing against the front seat. Same test with the Punto, and I had a bit more room at the back. I also felt that Polo front seats have less travel than Punto's. No Diesel TD car available at VW showroom as well, but a diesel CL was on display. I was not keen on TDing the petrol Polo. Probably sometime next week for Polo TD as well. Did not start the car to get a feel of the NVH, feel foolish now not to have done that when I was there.
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Old 17th July 2010, 20:51   #118
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Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
The car I drove had white dials, this one had black dials, like all other normal puntos...how come?
The dealer had painted the roof black and probably changed the dials too.
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Old 17th July 2010, 22:24   #119
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I am waiting for Linea 1.4 active in ozone/electric blue shade.
In this wait I have already missed Punto in electric blue shade.
(Because as per website this color in Punto is discontinued from May'10)
Now next option for me is in "Tuscan Wine" shade.
But both Linea and Punto shown in website looks so different in "tuscan Wine"
Unfortunately till today I've not seen a single Punto/Linea in Bangalore or Hyderabad in this shade.
If anybody is having Punto/Linea in "Tuscan wine" shade please post few pictures so that I'l get some idea about the actual color in sunlight.
Hoping to see either on team-bhp or actual!!!!!
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Old 17th July 2010, 22:27   #120
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
The dealer had painted the roof black and probably changed the dials too.
The Fiat website mentions nowhere about the white dials either...
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