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Old 27th July 2010, 08:44   #91
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
How come Chevvy is able to price Cruze as such even though its a newer car, with bigger engine, better safety ( 5stars), better equipments??? I am sorry but the Corolla Altis is horrible overpriced for this engine.
The 2.0 VCDi unit used by GM is shared across multiple vehicles, including the Chaewoo Optra Magnum, Chaewoo Captiva, etc.. In Toyota's case, they maybe trying to increase profits by sticking with the 1.4 since they probably will have to locally assemble the 1.4 to keep the Etios priced well. This will result in lower input cost/higher margin for the Altis 1.4. If they had put in the 2.0 D-4D, the Alits sales numbers will not justify assembling the engine locally. It will have to be imported,hence at a higher cost, lower profit. Toyota should have picked the 2.0 D-4D, however I still feel this car will sell, since they are not really targeting the performance enthusiasts.

I also feel that even if they had launched the 2.0 D-4D, people would have still kept complaining about the price and how it doesn't handle as sporty as a Cruze/Laura. FYI folks, the Corrolla has never been touted globally as a performance car. Performance has never been a USP of the Toyota even in global markets, unlike VW which touts their *german engineering* and driving dynamics.
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Old 27th July 2010, 09:24   #92
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I just had a word with a Toyota Dealer here and this is what he says - '' Initial Excitement on the Corolla being launched in a diesel option was a lot and quite a few people postponed their corolla purchase keeping in view that a diesel variant was being launched - but upon seeing the puny engine they decided to stick with the petrol ''

I know some of you people here think that this engine is a killer and the FE is wow ! Well IMO a person spending over a million bucks is really not so concerned about FE so much.

Well - its for the future sales charts now to prove me wrong. Lets wait and watch

Last edited by vkochar : 27th July 2010 at 09:26.
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Old 27th July 2010, 10:10   #93
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do make a note cars with 1500 cc attratcts a different tax in the auto industry and thats why i guess toyota made it below the 1500 cc line.

honda jazz is a world class car, but the cost is high in india because its imported and thats what makes it more expensive assume jazz to be in the price of 5laks it would have sold like hot cakes. cheers mate.
There is also a sub 4 meter rule to go with the <1500cc rule. So I do not think Toyota was thinking about excise rebates.

Jazz is NOT imported as CBU or CKD. Its made in Honda's Noida plant with 77% localization.
Honda Car India : Press Releases

Neither it has a engine capacity >1200 cc.

So I find Jazz to be deliberately overpriced.
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Old 27th July 2010, 10:22   #94
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Initially I was very excited looking at Altis-D and already had made up my mind that after intial reviews I'll be swapping it with my Corolla. But looks like I was WRONG and might not be taking the step untill and unless something major lands-in.

Toyota has for sure done a great hamper to an executive segment where-in they can had offer a detuned 2.0 engine. Sorry, But I will not be able gulp that a 7-8 sedan/hatch overtaking me on a highway and I'll be cursing myself for picking up a underpowered car. Frankly speaking I am kinda person who tries to infact overtake a every other car on highway, in a safer way for sure. FE looks exciting in today world but not at a cost of such insult where-in I'll be fearing to tap the pedal thinking "Let's leave it, I'll not be able to cop with it for sure" :(

I am sad not because I'll not win the race but I'll not be able gather guts to enter the race.
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Old 27th July 2010, 10:54   #95
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post

I also feel that even if they had launched the 2.0 D-4D, people would have still kept complaining about the price and how it doesn't handle as sporty as a Cruze/Laura. FYI folks, the Corrolla has never been touted globally as a performance car. Performance has never been a USP of the Toyota even in global markets, unlike VW which touts their *german engineering* and driving dynamics.
Well nobody here is asking Toyota to match Cruze's engine perfomance. Since the competition itself is offering 1.8-2.0 diesel at the same price range why should Toyota offer a 1.4 at the same price?? If i were in the market i would not even TD the Corolla diesel and look at the mileage as a factor, i would rather buy a Laura 2.0 and crib about the rear seat comfort (for 3) and A.S.S
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Old 27th July 2010, 10:59   #96
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The Corolla Altis was one of my favourite cars and the news of a diesel being launched soon had me sold. BUT after driving a verna for more than 2 years - driving this would be like downsizing !!

Why does the Corolla not offer 1.8 / 2.0 litre diesel engines ? Why do we continue getting puny sized engines on oversized cars ? I am very dissapointed.

The ford figo comes with a 1.4 ! Although at 67 bhp it feels just ok. But not the Corolla even if its 88 bhp !

The cruze is a perfect example of a powerful sedan. I'd buy the Cruze or the Verna any day.

In fact wait and watch the sales, they are not going to exactly set the chart on fire. This segment belongs partly to the enthusiastic driver and the urban cities where the owner will be well informed on the cars capabilities and I am sorry to say 1.4 is just not enough Toyota.

At this price everything is right for the car but the engine is oh so under powered ! I do not even want a TD on this one.
+1 to that.

Looks like Toyota weren't thinking or they had Jazz in mind while launching the D4D Altis. If Honda can overprice Jazz, why should we not join in? The fact that it costs more than the Petrol Altis is a .

This 1.4L D4D would have been ideal for the Etios. Now even if they launch it in the Etios, it would be sharing of platforms between Altis D/Etios and the novelty factor of a different D engine in a hatch would be lost.
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Old 27th July 2010, 12:16   #97
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Guys:

I am a bit confused about one thing. If you want a premium performance diesel sedan, you already have the Laura & Cruze. Toyota has decided to tap a different segment for whom, ***, reliability, and Total Cost of Ownership is more important. Why are people jumping up and down on this one. If you are a performance enthusiast, you already have to good cars.
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Old 27th July 2010, 14:07   #98
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys:

I am a bit confused about one thing. If you want a premium performance diesel sedan, you already have the Laura & Cruze. Toyota has decided to tap a different segment for whom, ***, reliability, and Total Cost of Ownership is more important. Why are people jumping up and down on this one. If you are a performance enthusiast, you already have to good cars.

The total cost of ownership tag is a misnomer in this particular case. I would call it inflated total cost of ownership. A 1.4L car for 15.5-16L on road for the top end GL variant . Suddenly, a Jazz at 8.5L doesn't sound too expensive.
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Old 27th July 2010, 14:23   #99
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys: I am a bit confused about one thing. If you want a premium performance diesel sedan, you already have the Laura & Cruze. Toyota has decided to tap a different segment for whom, ***, reliability, and Total Cost of Ownership is more important. Why are people jumping up and down on this one. If you are a performance enthusiast, you already have to good cars.
Is it not that in the first world, if you have a car with a range of petrol engines say 1.2, 1.6 and 1.8, the practice is to offer a diesel of around 2 litres so as not to degrade the performance? Why Toyota is offering a puny 1.4 in such a imposing car is indeed baffling to me, moreso when toyota has a variety of diesel engines in its arsenal. I think they'll soon be flapping around for a larger engine. All the hi tech asides, as the yanks say, there ain't nothing to beat good ol' cubic capacity! And if it's mileage only that's on your mind there's always Dzire, manza etc.... unbeatable saar!!
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Old 27th July 2010, 15:23   #100
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Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Cruze will feel very heavy as it is having a 2 litre engine,corolla will be very lightr footed.


Lets please quit making such ridiculous statements. So what if the engine is larger, do you have to carry it around on your shoulders? Fact of the matter is : The Cruze has an engine befitting of its asking price, is way more powerful, performs substantially better and is respectably fuel efficient too. Sure, it might log 2 kpl less than the Altis in the city, but I don't see any 15 lakh rupee customers breaking into a sweat over 1.5 - 2 kpl. Especially when its the greasy fuel.

You should take a spin in the Laura DSG. Engine size notwithstanding, it's even lighter to drive than a Swift Dzire.

Last edited by GTO : 27th July 2010 at 15:24.
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Old 27th July 2010, 15:58   #101
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1.4 litre D-4D/ 88.4 PS@3800 rpm/max torque of 209 Nm@1800-2800 rpm.
If that is what Corolla diesel is then what do we expect in Etios Sedan diesel? I wont be surprised if they fit a 1.2ltr/3-pot/70PS diesel in Etios!!
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Old 27th July 2010, 16:24   #102
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Originally Posted by h.k View Post
honda jazz is a world class car, but the cost is high in india because its imported and thats what makes it more expensive assume jazz to be in the price of 5laks it would have sold like hot cakes. cheers mate.
If that is the case why cant Honda increase the local content to reduce the costs. May be that will mean more investment on their part which they don't want to invest and have the cake and eat it too.


coming back to topic, I also feel that Toyota should have given a more powerful engine to Altis. But I think they have kept the petrol version for customers needing normal or better power and diesel for customers needing better FE. With diesel, Toyota will be attracting segments like Taxi fleet operators, Company cars and daily commuters for whom FE matters a lot.

Only next 6 months sales will present the clear picture.
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Old 27th July 2010, 17:48   #103
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The Octavia was selling like hot cakes with a 1.9L 90bhp engine and close to 15L, more than 5 years ago.

The Laura was priced even more and had only 100bhp. Still it sold in respectable numbers.

The Fiesta TDCi with only 68bhp was one of the most popular diesel cars in the C segment.

The Toyota may have only 85bhp but the overall package is what is more important. The Altis D-4D checks all the right boxes for indian consumers. Good FE, decent looks, excellent reliability, very good rear seat, good features list and toyota brand image.

The Innova is the least powerful in the segment but why is it still a best seller?

For a practical buy the Altis diesel looks to be an excellent buy.

If you were self driving then yes the Jetta, Laura or Cruze make better sense. But Skoda and VW have high maintenance and are priced much higher than the Altis. The Cruze has a very cramped rear seat removing the chauffeur driven buyer. The Civic is only petrol and frankly speaking the novelty is now wearing off after 4+years.

The Altis is no fun to drive but I can't think of a more practical car than the Altis.

The only problem for the Altis will be when the new Elantra is launched.
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Old 27th July 2010, 18:24   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys:
I am a bit confused about one thing. If you want a premium performance diesel sedan, you already have the Laura & Cruze. Toyota has decided to tap a different segment for whom, ***, reliability, and Total Cost of Ownership is more important. Why are people jumping up and down on this one. If you are a performance enthusiast, you already have to good cars.
I guess people want power, performance, reliability and resale value in one package. Even if they did launch the 2.0 the wishy washy handling would still be a sour point. Better off with the cheaper 1.4d.
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Old 27th July 2010, 18:25   #105
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It is indeed an awful situation for the India luxury car buyer. Most manufacturers are smartly bringing in their competent products with their lowest capacity engines to be price competitive. A 1400 cc engine for such a big car? I drive the 1400 cc Skoda Fabia diesel for the past six months, and am already contemplating selling it, the performance is that bad.

This comes at a time when the roads are getting better by the day and more people are getting behind the wheel planning multi-city road trips, something which was just imagination till a few years back.

It eventually proves that the proverbial "beggars cant be chosers" still applies to the Indian customer who eventually has to compromise on performance even after shelling out a fortune for their luxury car.
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