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Old 15th August 2010, 01:15   #16
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The dealer will perform a PDI and as part of PDI they run the engine in idle for some time. I am not sure of PDI and test run for all the automobiles.. but thats what they did for my Swift. If they have done that.. they must have come across this problem. Are they hiding here? Do they keep record of the PDI ? Can we grab a copy of it? why would they mention if they want to dispose the vehicle??

Balan.. i think you should initiate talks to replace the car...
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Old 15th August 2010, 11:17   #17
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Originally Posted by balan View Post

The side of the scorpio gets a lot hotter than the previous july 2008 model I have coz the heat pads / sink provided in these new versions are different from the older ones.
Could you explain which region in the "side", you are referring to?

Spike
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Old 15th August 2010, 13:06   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
...the ECU's function in this condition is somewhat similar to the limp home mode, the only difference being RPM, which is not restricted. By not restricting to lower RPM's->comparatively higher speeds-> could provide better ram air effects, thereby assisting cooling.
Ummm... Spike, I don't think you yourself are convinced about this?

At 1500 r/min on 5th gear, the car would be doing what? @60km/h? That speed in any case would be close to the point when the least fuel is required stoichiometrically, to keep the vehicle running smoothly.

Without rev limitation, someone might try to do, say, 120km/h on an open highway in the false belief that the ram effect will cool off the engine, not taking into consideration the considerably more heat being generated to turn over the engine @3000 r/min. Plus the wind resistance that has to be overcome makes the engine do a lot more work anyway.

So how about reprogramming things to restrict the revs when the overheating alarm goes off? I'd love to have that kind of peace of mind!
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Old 15th August 2010, 16:28   #19
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

At 1500 r/min on 5th gear, the car would be doing what? @60km/h? That speed in any case would be close to the point when the least fuel is required stoichiometrically, to keep the vehicle running smoothly.

Without rev limitation, someone might try to do, say, 120km/h on an open highway in the false belief that the ram effect will cool off the engine, not taking into consideration the considerably more heat being generated to turn over the engine @3000 r/min. Plus the wind resistance that has to be overcome makes the engine do a lot more work anyway.

So how about reprogramming things to restrict the revs when the overheating alarm goes off? I'd love to have that kind of peace of mind!
A vehicle running at 60 kmph (1500 rpm on 5th gear) need not necessarily be running close to stoichiometric ratio as it depends on the amount of air flow, temperature of incoming air, pressure drop across the intake system etc.

For someone trying to rip an overheating vehicle at 120 kmph only heaven may help. Someone who happens to know about ram air effect in most chances may also know, one of the ways of dissipating heat from an overheating engine is by switching on the heater mode of the AC circuit (provided windows are rolled down), this would aid heat loss considerably. Engines will continue to run with water temperature of 120 deg.

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Old 15th August 2010, 19:13   #20
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This is not normal and I dont think it is a lemon, only that some minor issues with electricls, unfortunately on the first day itself. Believe me electrical issues can come anytime (rat bites can cause as well) - not a possibility in this case though.

Balan: reading through the posts in your thread, couldnt understnad completely - are you saying that after doing the pooja you drove straight to accessory shop and fitted some music system / any electrical things?

If that is the case, most possible that the accessory guy have messed up the earthing, isnt that possible? Refering to the initial diagnostic pointing to earthing issue hence thinking in those lines.

If this is the case please check on the earhing, fix it, also do an overall inspection and testing overall. Only to make sure that there is no oversight of missing issues.

All the best, keep us posted
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Old 15th August 2010, 19:59   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
But tell me, Spike, why can't the ECU be programmed to go into limp mode as soon as overheating happens, restricting the revs to, say, 1500 r/min? That'll save on some very expensive repairs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
The ECU can be programmed, although the ECU's function in this condition is somewhat similar to the limp home mode, the only difference being RPM, which is not restricted.
Spike
I would think if you restrict power, under load rpm is also restricted.
One of the strategies used is to not inject fuel in each cylinder in turns. Uses the air to carry away some heat. Is anything similar used by MM? (In petrols, one can spray fuel to cool the charge, and then not ignite it. Gets you home. Don't know what happens to the CatCon.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
At 1500 r/min on 5th gear, the car would be doing what? @60km/h? That speed in any case would be close to the point when the least fuel is required stoichiometrically, to keep the vehicle running smoothly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
A vehicle running at 60 kmph (1500 rpm on 5th gear) need not necessarily be running close to stoichiometric ratio as it depends on the amount of air flow, temperature of incoming air, pressure drop across the intake system etc.
Please explain.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 15th August 2010 at 20:03.
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Old 15th August 2010, 20:09   #22
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It doesnt seem to be a big problem, get the areas around the radiator checked for any blockage (left out packing, pads etc). Take the engine to the running temp and check if the fan turns on automatically, I believe they would have already checked the temp. sensor but no harm in getting them changed anyways, sometimes the fault is intermittent.
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Old 15th August 2010, 21:20   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I would think if you restrict power, under load rpm is also restricted.
Yes, what I meant was the RPM is not restricted between 1200-1500 (IIRC) as in the case of Limp Home mode.

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Old 15th August 2010, 22:35   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Please explain.
I would probably like to rephrase that to "running close to optimum air-fuel ratio "
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Someone who happens to know about ram air effect in most chances may also know, one of the ways of dissipating heat from an overheating engine is by switching on the heater mode of the AC circuit (provided windows are rolled down), this would aid heat loss considerably. Engines will continue to run with water temperature of 120 deg.
I hope he does... if he was reading this thread (Get-me-home tips in case of breakdowns).
Quoted from that thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
(DISCLAIMER:
  • TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.
  • THIS IS WHAT I HAVE EXPERIANCED AND AM SHARING WITH YOU.
  • IT MAY OR MAY NOT WORK IN ALL SITUATIONS OR CARS RESPECTIVELY.)


I just experienced this and it worked.

It was my friend's Hyundai accent which had clocked 44,600 kms and was over heating, with the temp needle almost running to red.

A service manager of a Hyundai service center told me to:
  • put the air flow switch to "fresh air mode"
  • put the temperature control switch to "red", that is, turn on the heater.
  • put the blower switch to full speed
  • DO NOT TURN ON THE AC.
  • put the air direction switch towards window defrosting mode (one with 3 arrows facing upwards)
  • open both your front 2 windows.
We drove this crippled car for about 10 kms (called the helpline) following this tip and voila, the car was functioning normally. I hope this is useful for those whose service centers are pretty far off or whose car's fan stops working in the middle of the road.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
This will not work in all conditions, because the fan of the AC system is much weaker as compared to radiator fan. It will have some effect
If you drive at at lower reves in top gear(eg 5th gear 60), the air hitting the radiator will cool it enough. What you suggested above will have an effect, but it will be very less.
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Excellent tip, Sid. It works - I've tried it myself. The premise on which it works is that the coolant is also made to circulate through a small radiator inside the cabin (fitted under the dashboard). The hot coolant provides the heat inside the cabin in an HVAC system, and turning on the cabin heater to "hot", switching off the AC, and putting on the cabin blower fan to "full" removes at least a part of the heat from the engine. Opening all the windows is the only thing to do if a cooked driver is not required.

Of course, this is going to work in the following situations:
  • If the radiator cooling fan has failed - won't work if there has been complete coolant leakage/loss (as alpha1 asked).
  • If the car has an HVAC system (as greenhorn mentioned), and not just an AC such as in the M-800 or some models of the Indica.
  • If the engine is being revved hard or being lugged. Best to keep the revs low and stay in a lower gear in traffic to avoid too much heat generation. On open roads, keep to moderate speeds on top gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Yes, what I meant was the RPM is not restricted between 1200-1500 (IIRC) as in the case of Limp Home mode.

Spike
Which means some moron can rev the engine without load, and require an engine rebuild! With a rev restriction, that possibility reduces, doesn't it?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 15th August 2010 at 22:37.
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Old 15th August 2010, 23:25   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I would probably like to rephrase that to "running close to optimum air-fuel ratio "
Diesel. Excess air. What is 'optimum'?

Regards
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Old 16th August 2010, 08:04   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balan View Post
They have diagnosed the problem to be a faulty earthing

Infact the engine / coolant temprature was normal yesterday night also
But I was in such a state of anger..

As for the metallic smell from the engine yesterday night, it seems to be the paint that is coated on the engine..

I went to the acccessories shop to order a seat cover from Gsport
BTW, this vehicle ccomes with enough basic accessories.
Hi Bala, picking up these 4 observations from your post, looks like SS Traveller's first guess of the problem being due to the wiring seems to be coming true here, in which case you are lucky ! Could have been caused by rodent bite.

Hope the issue is quickly resolved and you enjoy your new purchase to the fullest
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Old 16th August 2010, 09:14   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Could you explain which region in the "side", you are referring to?

Spike
Sitting inside the scorpio, it will be the left side

Where the AC unit is located I suppose

@Narayang: No I didnt fit any accessories. I dont like spending on anything that doesnt improve car performance (read that as mileage) Infact my previous cars didnt even have a music system. Only the scorpios come with factory fitted music system and hence I have to bear with the "noise" inside the cabin. I like to drive silently.

Will keep posted after I check the vehicle today evening at the service center
Best regards
Bala
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Old 17th August 2010, 10:47   #28
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The problem was a faulty connector for the VMS (voice messaging service) which was creating this voice. Hopefully the problem is sorted out. Still testing. Will check the issue during my next long trip and keep updated
Thanks all
Best regards
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Old 17th August 2010, 10:49   #29
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The problem was a faulty connector for the VMS (voice messaging service) which was creating this voice. Hopefully the problem is sorted out. Still testing. Will check the issue during my next long trip and keep updated
Thanks all
Best regards
Bala
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Old 17th August 2010, 12:03   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balan View Post
The problem was a faulty connector for the VMS (voice messaging service) which was creating this voice. Hopefully the problem is sorted out. Still testing. Will check the issue during my next long trip and keep updated
Thanks all
Best regards
Bala
I asked the junior executive how they isolated the problem, he said, they tried replacing the VMS box with a new one from another scorpio, then checked eacch cconnector indivdually So far the sound hasnt come. Lets hope for the best.
Best regards
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