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Old 9th September 2010, 23:03   #76
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Oh I am happy to so many fans for this car, I thought my love for this car was illogical ! It is truly a poor man's BMW (as per Autocar Sept 2010)
In fact the first car I took a test drive , when decided to sell this one was Figo !!

Before getting lost into replies ; two important things I had forgotten

I called up my sis in Karnataka to tell her that I sold Fordy & bought Ritz. Before I could start the topic she told me that, she bought a Pre Owned Fiesta Diesel (Jun 2008, 22k on ODO, ZXi version, at 4.75L), She told me that how much her family was impressed with my Car when I visited them! I swallowed my words about my bad experiences (just told that i sold it after the accident) and Congratulated her !! I wish many happy miles for Her. A Fiesta went out from the family and another came home immediately ! She in fact had booked a Ritz, which she cancelled !

On the day I sold the car,
I saw an Ad in the same news paper about 1.6 fiesta, nearly same specs as mine but single Owner, I called him up and asked how the sale is going . He was expecting 3.25L , but he told me that all the buyers were offering around 2.25L ! now he was thinking of selling it at 2.75L. I told him clearly my experiences with selling , told him not to sell it below 3L at any cost. He thanked me for updating him, two days ago he called me to say that it was sold at 2.95L !!


swiftnfurious@drkarthik -- With all due respect for your posts, my observations and points. My replies are in bold - just for highlighting purposes

--I thank Mods (Amartya) for removing the highlighting, it was strain to the eye, I did not read it the first time, wouldn't even have replied !
In an educated forum like this "Impact" should be in the wordings & the matter; Not in Font type, or Size.


swiftnfurious : Did you mean that you used to travel 1500 with not much gaps - like no long breaks of 4-5 hours ? [I understand food breaks and small rests in between]. If so, this also can lead to problems in a car - The mechanicals should not be strained to this extent for better performance is what I believe [I know buses do almost to this extent without much breaks in between].

--Even if it it can be driven singlehandedly, it is always safer to take another driver along.


swiftnfurious: I love all my friends' cars which I get to drive and where I dont have to be bothered about the maintenance.

--Thank God ! None of my family members think like that, I belong to a lucky family where people use other's belongings more carefully than their Own ! Even though you have made this statement;but I know You would also never abuse any body's car, You love cars as much as I do.


swiftnfurious: If this was the case, you would not have bought the Fiesta 1.6, a pre-worshipped one right [it was already driven by someone]? Plus there would not have been a used car market itself !

--So No car is that delicate, the insecurity is unwarranted, need not necessarily be driven single handedly, for a trouble free operation. (as per the car manual)
cars are not camera's or laptops, they are designed to be on the roads, accidents do happen, and should be able to handle certain degree of extreme situations without malfunction.


swiftnfurious : I have not heard much of issues with Diesel Fiesta and have heard of high mileage ones without any complaint at all -- Could you provide more details on this? May be it will help some other Fiesta D owners.

--He is too Senior for me to ask that now (6 months), will definitely try to get something when I meet him next. (this car was driven & serviced by his driver mostly) As far as remember they were not clutch related issues.
Four of My senior colleagues own Fiesta's; two diesels have recurring problems, one petrol and other diesel are problem free (>70k)


swiftnfurious: One question here -- how many SAs have told you that they replaced the TD vehicle's parts in xxx kms ??? Its simple logic that they will not tell all these details about products they want to sell -- and not even logical to think that a similar vehicle's parts will be required to be changed the way the TD vehicles did -- Ofcourse the driving styles are different for a TD vehicle and our own vehicle right? [quote=swiftnfurious;2060894]

--Same simple logic can be extended.. will it possible for them to maintain a demo car by changing the clutch every week ? for that matter even every month or two ? what about other mechanicals ? I don't think so


@ sugeeta : sir eagerly waiting to see your service breakup, You are on the luckier side of Fiesta Owners (the same side in which in which I covered first 12k kms)

@karthik: FE before tyre change 11.8/14.9 kmpl , after tyre changes upsizing 8.8/12.2 kmpl
As far as buying 2nd hand Fiesta 1.6 concerned, these lessons should be helpful. Getting well maintained pre owned 1.6 is tough, as those who buy them, like to keep it forever unless maintenance issues crop up. Yes you can get them at very cheap prices.. Try buying from a known source or check complete service records before buying. Include price of spark plugs, tyres, clutch, etc while bargaining (easily upto 30k). Buying from a 2nd hand dealer, I must say is not worth it ! (Mahindra first choice is okay as they give one year warranty, check at showroom near Nampally station they have one !)
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Old 9th September 2010, 23:44   #77
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I agree & disagree to the notion of sharing cars. I guess it is partly emotion driven and part fact based.

-Can relate/understand Sugeeta's reluctance to give his car to a valet. I once saw a valet crash a car into the side wall of multi level parking structure!! I would never give my car to a person who will rough handle it.

- That said, sharing cars is a reality one has to live with in many households. E.g: Sharing your car with your spouse, father, brother etc. happen. Especially in households with a single family car, there is no other option. My wife & I swap cars all the time based on who is driving with baby or picking up groceries etc & And I cannot expect my wife to brake as smoothly or shift as gently as I do (my opinion, of course my wife disagrees). Cars are built for this. If they cannot handle this, taxi operators can never survive.

- Our family's HC is driven by me, our driver, my wife and few relatives (from time to time) - over last 7 years. No problems other than routine service. We have covered more than 150k kms on it and at high speeds - everything is stock. Absolutely a gem of a car. This is proof enough for me to say that multiple drivers are not the primary issue for car problems.

Some cars are inherently more reliable and easier/cheaper to maintain that others. While multiple drivers and other factors may skew this a little bit one way or the other, on a average the more reliable cars always tend to be cheaper to maintain.

One observation I have seen in this thread is that all NEW ford owners are happy whereas SECOND HAND ford owners (including myself) have bad experiences!! Is this observation correct???



Quote:
Originally Posted by drkritik View Post
@ Sugeeta: Please read the all my posts again, it was in total four drivers, that too on long drives ! Most of the time I was in the car. & I can count the number of occasions. You can't plan a travel of 1500km stretch with single driver.. All of them loved the car as much as I did ! Car started giving problem suddenly after travelling 12k kms. It was driven by multiple drivers earlier also, I think it will be driven by multiple drivers in it's new home.

My other cars were also used by multiple drivers many more than 4, none of them had any problems what so ever. I know many households where cars are driven by multiple drivers

If your car is so delicate that you feel so much afraid to give it in Valet Parking, you seriously consider changing it. this much of insecurity is unwarranted. By the way, No car manual mentions the car should be driven by single driver (sorry to be rude..) You mean the demo cars should get the clutches replaced every week !!

I can understand this would irritate a ford owner, but this is the state of affairs.

I still remember when the first time clutch failed , My senior colleague (who owns fiesta diesel, who had many troubles with the car, driven almost 60k) advised me to sell the car, I argued furiously showing my brand loyalty (the same way you are arguing)

He told plainly " Once ford starts giving mechanical troubles, it is mostly endless" selling is a wise decision !(I could have saved roughly 50k). Many others in the forum had similar experiences with ford.

@sarmarishi: Abuse is a wrong word choice, I loved the car a lot. But I wasn't possessive. we'll see Ritz behavior with same multiple drivers.(sorry guys in a joint family like mine , i can't help it)
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Old 10th September 2010, 06:40   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkritik View Post
@ sugeeta : sir eagerly waiting to see your service breakup, You are on the luckier side of Fiesta Owners (the same side in which in which I covered first 12k kms)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
I agree & disagree to the notion of sharing cars. I guess it is partly emotion driven and part fact based

-Can relate/understand Sugeeta's reluctance to give his car to a valet.
Its Ma'am for your kind info. Thought will clear it out. Things like this generally happen on an Auto Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
I agree & disagree to the notion of sharing cars. I guess it is partly emotion driven and part fact based.

- That said, sharing cars is a reality one has to live with in many households. E.g: Sharing your car with your spouse, father, brother etc. happen. Especially in households with a single family car, there is no other option. My wife & I swap cars all the time based on who is driving with baby or picking up groceries etc & And I cannot expect my wife to brake as smoothly or shift as gently as I do (my opinion, of course my wife disagrees). Cars are built for this. If they cannot handle this, taxi operators can never survive.

- Our family's HC is driven by me, our driver, my wife and few relatives (from time to time) - over last 7 years. No problems other than routine service. We have covered more than 150k kms on it and at high speeds - everything is stock. Absolutely a gem of a car. This is proof enough for me to say that multiple drivers are not the primary issue for car problems.

Some cars are inherently more reliable and easier/cheaper to maintain that others. While multiple drivers and other factors may skew this a little bit one way or the other, on a average the more reliable cars always tend to be cheaper to maintain.
I thought I'll bring out a few personal experiences.
  1. We have at present 2 cars, the Bolero and Fiat Uno. The Uno has done about 1.1x L and is still on the first clutch. I used to drive it till 1.05 L after which it went to my wife. Last I drove it, felt that clutch replacement is may be a few hundred Kms away. It does pullonplane ground fine but from stand still on a slope, it shows (I'm a bit finicky about my cars).
  2. We had a M800 which we sold off a few months back. It was a 97 Model done 44K driven first by my MIL who was the first owner and my wife took it over in 2008. It had clutch replacement 3 times, twice under my MIL and 3rd time under my wife's operation sometime in 09 at 38K. My Wife used to drive my Jag in the UK without any problem and change felt by me.
  3. In my Ladakh trip, my Bolero was driven by me friend in certain. He is an Auto engineer himself working in Hero Honda and drives in Bolero. I had to give him my car to drive after about 2k Kms drive in the previous 2 days. After I took over the car, I could feel something amiss on the clutch front. Because the Bolero doesn't have a dead pedal, he was resting his foot on the clutch pedal continuously (I saw and told him once about it as well.)
  4. While Working with Swaraj Mazda, I still remember, we had felicitated an ITBP driver for having his first clutch replacement at 150k Kms. Reason: That bus was singularly driven by him right from Day 1. Otherwise the normal average was about 80-90K Kms.
Bottom line: Not all drivers, howsoever good they may be, may not be good while driving your vehicle, because of their inherent habits (#3 as case in point). In Auto's it hardly matters but in Manuals it will shows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
One observation I have seen in this thread is that all NEW ford owners are happy whereas SECOND HAND ford owners (including myself) have bad experiences!! Is this observation correct???
This is not Ford specific, but in general with most 2nd hand cars.
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Old 10th September 2010, 11:10   #79
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@ MileCruncher, thankyou for the clarification.

@ drkritik, please share your experience with the Ritz. It is one of the most popular cars with the younger professionals today.

@ pankaj sachdeva, INR 200 labour charges, this is commendable. How about replacements, oil change etc. How much do you usually spend per service for a petrol ikon?I also own a Jan 2003 petrol ikon and was planning to sell it, but hope to retain it with some investment as my son loves the car.

Sugeeta
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Old 10th September 2010, 12:14   #80
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Thanks for the clarification. My apologies to Sugeetha!

Great points MileCruncher! However, the take away I got was more on the lines of "Driving habits determine car's service requirements rather than the quality of the car" - and I agree with this. Point being, if your friend (who drove resting his leg on the clutch) had done the same thing with his Bolero (which he alone may have driven) it would still cause/d issues. I guess the problem was not about your friend driving the car but he driving it with resting his leg on the clutch..did I get that right? Anyways, great discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Its Ma'am for your kind info. Thought will clear it out. Things like this generally happen on an Auto Forum


I thought I'll bring out a few personal experiences.
  1. We have at present 2 cars, the Bolero and Fiat Uno. The Uno has done about 1.1x L and is still on the first clutch. I used to drive it till 1.05 L after which it went to my wife. Last I drove it, felt that clutch replacement is may be a few hundred Kms away. It does pullonplane ground fine but from stand still on a slope, it shows (I'm a bit finicky about my cars).
  2. We had a M800 which we sold off a few months back. It was a 97 Model done 44K driven first by my MIL who was the first owner and my wife took it over in 2008. It had clutch replacement 3 times, twice under my MIL and 3rd time under my wife's operation sometime in 09 at 38K. My Wife used to drive my Jag in the UK without any problem and change felt by me.
  3. In my Ladakh trip, my Bolero was driven by me friend in certain. He is an Auto engineer himself working in Hero Honda and drives in Bolero. I had to give him my car to drive after about 2k Kms drive in the previous 2 days. After I took over the car, I could feel something amiss on the clutch front. Because the Bolero doesn't have a dead pedal, he was resting his foot on the clutch pedal continuously (I saw and told him once about it as well.)
  4. While Working with Swaraj Mazda, I still remember, we had felicitated an ITBP driver for having his first clutch replacement at 150k Kms. Reason: That bus was singularly driven by him right from Day 1. Otherwise the normal average was about 80-90K Kms.
Bottom line: Not all drivers, howsoever good they may be, may not be good while driving your vehicle, because of their inherent habits (#3 as case in point). In Auto's it hardly matters but in Manuals it will shows.




This is not Ford specific, but in general with most 2nd hand cars.
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Old 10th September 2010, 15:30   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
One observation I have seen in this thread is that all NEW ford owners are happy whereas SECOND HAND ford owners (including myself) have bad experiences!! Is this observation correct???
I cant be the only exception!
Really happy with my 2008 Oct TDCi so far
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Old 10th September 2010, 19:46   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkritik View Post
@karthik: FE before tyre change 11.8/14.9 kmpl , after tyre changes upsizing 8.8/12.2 kmpl
As far as buying 2nd hand Fiesta 1.6 concerned, these lessons should be helpful. Getting well maintained pre owned 1.6 is tough, as those who buy them, like to keep it forever unless maintenance issues crop up. Yes you can get them at very cheap prices.. Try buying from a known source or check complete service records before buying. Include price of spark plugs, tyres, clutch, etc while bargaining (easily upto 30k). Buying from a 2nd hand dealer, I must say is not worth it ! (Mahindra first choice is okay as they give one year warranty, check at showroom near Nampally station they have one !)
Thanks! I'll talk about clutch , spark plugs and tyres while bargaining,I'm not considering buying it from any dealers, I prefer buying it from owners, so I'll keep looking for ad's in DC.If mahindra first choice is giving a warranty with the car i'll go check that car
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Old 11th September 2010, 11:09   #83
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Well count me in as well, although mine was a 1yr old vehicle, I would still call it a new one as it had 1000 and odd kms on the ODO, so far, I have been a happy camper, have to see if the same continues for another 3 to 4 yrs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
I cant be the only exception!
Really happy with my 2008 Oct TDCi so far
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Old 14th September 2010, 00:12   #84
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Originally Posted by Chillout View Post
Well count me in as well, although mine was a 1yr old vehicle, I would still call it a new one as it had 1000 and odd kms on the ODO, so far, I have been a happy camper, have to see if the same continues for another 3 to 4 yrs
Great , wish you many trouble free miles, what about used Fiesta 1.6 happy owners ?

@Sugeeta: Sorry Madam, my sincere apologies. It is my pleasure to share the experiences with Ritz on this Forum, I feel it is unethical on my part to comment upon the initial ownership till first Service (due on 20th). A diesel needs to be tuned for 1k kms at least before assessing it's performance.

@ Milecruncher: Great Information, very well coined, thanks a ton.

Driving Bolero in Ladakh .. Wow it's a dream for many of us.. +1 for That

Clutch change at 150k & Felicitation for driving ;I must stay , they are people with great human spirit (both the person who was felicitated and the people who thought of felicitating Him)

@Rohing: +1 for your observation, can any happy pre-owned Fiesta 1.6 owners give some info?

@EVERYONE: what are your individual experiences with CLUTCH FAILING..
Please mention First Hand Experiences or Near First Hand Experiences
Please mention the car details, Kms on the ODO, Single or Multiple handed Driving, any specific reasons , problems faced, Towing etc, Cost of clutch? etc
Let us see can we arrive at a reliable statistically significant conclusion ??
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Old 15th September 2010, 12:01   #85
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[quote=Sugeeta;@ pankaj sachdeva, INR 200 labour charges, this is commendable. How about replacements, oil change etc. How much do you usually spend per service for a petrol ikon?I also own a Jan 2003 petrol ikon and was planning to sell it, but hope to retain it with some investment as my son loves the car.
Sugeeta[/quote]


the bill for 5K service comes around Rs 3K with consumables. This include replacing castrol magnatec oil, coolant change, oil filter, air filter and brake oil, power stearing oil top-ups and the labour charges. These charges are when i get the work done in punjab where I have right connections. if the same work is done in gurgaon, bill shoots up by almost 1K.
Mine is Jan 2003 too and few months back, i was planning to sell it too, however I love the way it drives , so dropped the idea of selling it and now planning to pass on the car to my wife as she has started enjoying driving it

Last edited by pankaj_sachdeva : 15th September 2010 at 12:03.
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Old 15th September 2010, 13:34   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
- Our family's HC is driven by me, our driver, my wife and few relatives (from time to time) - over last 7 years. No problems other than routine service. We have covered more than 150k kms on it and at high speeds - everything is stock. Absolutely a gem of a car. This is proof enough for me to say that multiple drivers are not the primary issue for car problems.

Some cars are inherently more reliable and easier/cheaper to maintain that others. While multiple drivers and other factors may skew this a little bit one way or the other, on a average the more reliable cars always tend to be cheaper to maintain.
Multiple drivers arent the reaosn for problems, but different driving styles. Thats the point everyone seems to be driving at.

In terms of the maintenance costs, many members including myself had requested for the comparo to be made against a vehicle in the same segment for a proper conclusion, rather than being compared against a vehicle in a lower segment.
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Old 15th September 2010, 14:03   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohing View Post
One observation I have seen in this thread is that all NEW ford owners are happy whereas SECOND HAND ford owners (including myself) have bad experiences!! Is this observation correct???
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkritik View Post
Great , wish you many trouble free miles, what about used Fiesta 1.6 happy owners ?
...
@Rohing: +1 for your observation, can any happy pre-owned Fiesta 1.6 owners give some info?
Nope.. that's too generalized an observation. Having said that, any pre-owned car can surprise you anytime because you are not aware how was it used/abused by the previous owner.

I have a pre-owned 1.6 ZXi (of course, petrol) which I picked in 2007 when it had 11k+ kms on the odo in 13 months of previous ownership. Hasn't let me down even once and continues to serve as loyally as any car could.

Ikon Flair (5th anniv edition) which I had bought new in 2004 also served me well for 15 months before I let go of it on account of long term relocation.

Its not about new/old, its about how well a car has been treated. My experience of buying pre-owned cars (and selling my Ikon & WagonR) has taught me to buy a pre-owned car only from someone who is relocating abroad as such car would have a higher probability of being in better shape when compared to a seller who is selling off his car to buy a new one. Logic - probably latter seller is aware of what are the problems which are due in near horizon and hence, letting go of the ride and buying a new one.

Just my thoughts, not at all necessary that everyone would subscribe to them or would be impressed

Last edited by AlokSriva : 15th September 2010 at 14:13.
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Old 16th September 2010, 17:06   #88
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Well, been through the 75K Kms. service on Saturday. Costs incurred :

Parts, Battery, Bulbs, Labour, Wheel Balancing / Alignment & Taxes : all under INR 7000.

Breakup details on my Ford Fiesta review.

I was treating my kids as well as the kids in the extended family to a few goodies this rainy weekend. Took the opportunity to treat the car to new floor mats for the good behaviour exhibited by it on the horrible, horrible Delhi roads this rainy season.

Cheers SM
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Old 17th September 2010, 13:41   #89
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Normally petrol cars wont let down if maintained reasonably (regular electrical checkup is a must). Seen lot of petrol cars doing years without seeing a mechanic. But if it develops problem after a very long service, then visit to workshop becomes a regular routine.
Need to judge what to service in the next 3 months.
My cousin has a maruti esteem not seen the mechanic for more than 2 years. When I drove during Jan during my visit, it stopped making me to call "speed" service on all three days. The reason, the electrical point and condenser failed again due to some short circuit.

Generally petrol sedans have lower resale value and Fiesta 1.6 got affected more due to its lower presence.
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Old 19th September 2010, 12:21   #90
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Got a reply from Ford Service Manager
which was more or less expected

''Kindly note that, "Clutch" being a friction item is not covered under warranty & the same is mentioned in point 11, page 146, of the Owners Manual, under the heading "What is not covered."

Please feel free to contact the undersigned for clarification if any''

@Sugeeta Rs 7000 for 70k service is commendable
it was definitely worth a treat !

@ Aloksriva: any experience with preowned fiesta 1.6, with more than 50k on the odometer ? The car you got was practically New (with 11k on the ODO)
anyways wish you many happy miles with this great car.
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