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Old 25th March 2009, 09:46   #166
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
However, the 800, having been in production in its current shape for over 20 years, has recovered all its capital investment costs. If Maruti wishes, it can sell a stripped down version of the 800 at production cost + minimal profit, to give the Nano a fantastic run for its money.
Just makes me think what is there in the base 800 that Maruti can strip down? It is already a very basic car. I don't see anything that they can strip down, unless they re-engineer the car...
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Old 25th March 2009, 09:59   #167
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller
If Maruti wishes, it can sell a stripped down version of the 800 at production cost + minimal profit, to give the Nano a fantastic run for its money. That is a trump card that they do have up their sleeve. And if that happens and the 800 sells at even a 10% higher price point than the Nano, the Indian public may be more inclined to buy the tried-and-tested 800 than the uncharted-territory-another-Indica-V1-in-the-making Nano in the long run.
Yes, even though Suzuki has denied they would do this, I believe when it comes to the crunch, they would play this trump card.

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Originally Posted by saurabh711
Just makes me think what is there in the base 800 that Maruti can strip down? It is already a very basic car.
Their profit margin, for example.
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Old 25th March 2009, 10:39   #168
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
And finally, it costs a bomb to setup a crash test facility. It is not built to show off and garner accolades. If someone set up a facility then it had a more meaningful purpose.
While you have a point there, TML builds prototype cars in 10s, while most foreign (Japanese/European) manufacturers build them in 100s. That's the difference of scale and hence, available data points.

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
However, the 800, having been in production in its current shape for over 20 years, has recovered all its capital investment costs. If Maruti wishes, it can sell a stripped down version of the 800 at production cost + minimal profit, to give the Nano a fantastic run for its money. That is a trump card that they do have up their sleeve.
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Yes, ev en though Suzuki has denied they would do this, I believe when it comes to the crunch, they would play this trump card.
Far easier said than done.

Remember, Nano is built from scratch with a very very specific goal in mind, that is to keep the cost under control. Several parts are redesigned, the vendor model surely is different and so on. Even dealer margins are going to be lower and will be compensated through volume.

Even if Maruti Suzuki wishes to sell stripped down version of 800, I do not think that it they can pull down costs so much.
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Old 25th March 2009, 10:48   #169
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Two questions. If Nano comes with 2 different tyre sizes does it mean it will carry 2 spare tyres?
Distinctly remember R.Tata saying that higher versions will come with a power brake? What is it? Or did he just fumble and thus mentioned power brakes and power windows in the same breath?

PS: I have put up my 2007 -800 for sale. Will be making up my mind over a good proposal today. The proceeds will go to buying a Nano
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Old 25th March 2009, 10:53   #170
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Yes, even though Suzuki has denied they would do this, I believe when it comes to the crunch, they would play this trump card.

Their profit margin, for example.
Maruti has already made it clear that they are not upgrading the 800 to Euro - IV as it cost them a bomb. So I guess in terms of presses and dies and other machinery may also be on the last leg of its life.

Plus don't forget, a new product/design with average reliability has much more charm compared to a 20 yr old design that has been tried and tested.

After everyone wants something new, whatever/however reliable it may be. Charm of the unknown may be
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:09   #171
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Mr. Wellwisher-of-TeamBHP has provided the following answers to some questions raised in this discussion:

1. The air-conditioning is effective. Effective enough for four to not sweat. It won't chill, just like in the 800. TML claim a 5-7 per cent drop in power with the AC on. A 3/5 rating overall.

2. The car was homologated in two weeks flat in February 2008. That's a record of sorts by ARAI standards!

3. I wanted to add, the gears are not entirely notchy. They shift well and the clutch is light. Marginal notchiness is evident, but not disturbing.

4. It drives like a car, and comparisons with two-wheelers is meaningless. The real deal is if potential two-wheeler buyers can cough up the kind of deposits Tata expects at the moment.

5. It is built to similar techniques like the Indica Vista. That the Vista is decently built should give you a good idea of how the Nano is.

6. How much ever one tries to defend the M800, trouble is comparisons will be drawn. And though the M800 is 25 years old, it feels its age in terms of packaging. One must remember that a lot is riding on Tata as a group and not just Tata Motors on this project, globally. Am sure, reliability must have been top priority for the company, lest it tarnishes the group's image forever.

7. Take a test-drive. Don't draw comparisons with your car or any other but try and weigh it as what you get for what you pay. You will get your answer any which way.
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:10   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
Even if Maruti Suzuki wishes to sell stripped down version of 800, I do not think that it they can pull down costs so much.
Time will answer this, though I would bet on the fact that MSIL would move in this direction, inspite of their denials. No company in its right mind will just sit and watch while the competition takes away the cake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher
Maruti has already made it clear that they are not upgrading the 800 to Euro - IV as it cost them a bomb. So I guess in terms of presses and dies and other machinery may also be on the last leg of its life.
You are right. But that only is a problem in the metros. In other places, they can still sell the M800. For the cities, maybe they will work on the pricing of the Alto.

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher
Plus don't forget, a new product/design with average reliability has much more charm compared to a 20 yr old design that has been tried and tested.
Quite true - a new design definitely interests many people. But then we should not forget those that value reliability more than new looks - they are not in a minority either - and for them the 800/Alto makes perfect sense.
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:17   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabh711 View Post
Just makes me think what is there in the base 800 that Maruti can strip down? I don't see anything that they can strip down, unless they re-engineer the car...
Sure, a fixed rear like the Nano rather than the hatch, for one. A single wiper instead of two, for another. Thinner 135 section tyres for a third.

And of course, this...
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Their profit margin, for example.
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:23   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
2. The car was homologated in two weeks flat in February 2008. That's a record of sorts by ARAI standards!
I thought it took till september
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...road-test.html
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:28   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
For the top-variant, the OTR would be 2lakh+. At these prices, I do not really see the average bike buyer as a potential customer.
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Originally Posted by carcoll View Post
Lets take the Nana LX BSIII, Ex-showroomprice here in Goa is Rs.183,699/-, add road tax/regn./insurance, ie. approx 10%, or Rs. 19,000/-, total on-road price, approx. Rs.203,000/-.
Admittedly, I was surprised by the top variants OTR price too. It comes dangerously close to the entry-level Marutis.

Butttttttttttttttttt the Nano is not at all about the top end variants. Ratan Tata has time & again insisted that he is creating a new method of transport, taking a 4 wheeler into new homes and giving a realistic upgrade option to biker-families. Thus, the entry-level pricing (1.3 - 1.5 OTR) is most crucial and the one that is relevant to 60 - 70% of the market.
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:30   #176
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
This brings me to real point. A person who barely manages to fuel his expenditure of bike will buy Nano for using it as a city car ? The maintenance will be surely more than bike, FE will go down from 60 to 20-22. Do you think he will still use Nano for city driving ?
Sir,

No offense intended, but let us take a day-to-day scenario, in the life of an average middle-class person.

Say, the person needs to take his family(3 members) to a supermarket/mall/friend's place. and let us take an average of say, 5-10 Kms. Now if he had to commute by bike, as another member in a previous post has pointed out, it will be way too tiring, also the FE will be 1/3rd, 1/4th depending on the number of trips made(unless the guy worked for a circus and cud take the whole lot at once on his bike ).

the second option is public transport. Say, a rick (this is the cheapest anytime transport in the country). Minimum cost per KM on Ricks is 10 INR. this means it will cost him about 100 INR for a single trip, and lets not forget the fact that we have stunt drivers in the guise of Rick drivers in this country .

Coming to the Nano, the FE claimed is an average of 20 KMPL. Considering an average price of 50 bucks per litre, he would still be paying 25 INR for a 10 KM trip. And lets not forget, it is safer than a rick, and comfier than 3 separate 10 KM trips.

Looking at the above factors, I consider the NANO a winner, when it comes to being light on the pocket.

Again, I do not intend to prove any one wrong here, just thought I'd post my thoughts.

MODS - please edit/remove if found inappropriate.

Cheers!
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:31   #177
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Kudos to Mr.Ratan Tata and R&D team at Tata Motors for making Nano a reality!
A Super Achievment by all means, and we should be proud that it is accomplished by a Indian company!
It will revolutionize the small Car industry worldwide!

All TD reports including those by CNBC TV18, NDTV have given a very positive review of Nano, which is heartening to know, since many Auto enthusiasts including me were skeptical of this 1 lakh car.
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:31   #178
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Default NANO = FE, I say yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
This brings me to real point. A person who barely manages to fuel his expenditure of bike will buy Nano for using it as a city car ? The maintenance will be surely more than bike, FE will go down from 60 to 20-22. Do you think he will still use Nano for city driving ?

Sir,

No offense intended, but let us take a day-to-day scenario, in the life of an average middle-class person.

Say, the person needs to take his family(3 members) to a supermarket/mall/friend's place. and let us take an average of say, 5-10 Kms. Now if he had to commute by bike, as another member in a previous post has pointed out, it will be way too tiring, also the FE will be 1/3rd, 1/4th depending on the number of trips made(unless the guy worked for a circus and cud take the whole lot at once on his bike ).

the second option is public transport. Say, a rick (this is the cheapest anytime transport in the country). Minimum cost per KM on Ricks is 10 INR. this means it will cost him about 100 INR for a single trip, and lets not forget the fact that we have stunt drivers in the guise of Rick drivers in this country .

Coming to the Nano, the FE claimed is an average of 20 KMPL. Considering an average price of 50 bucks per litre, he would still be paying 25 INR for a 10 KM trip. And lets not forget, it is safer than a rick, and comfier than 3 separate 10 KM trips.

Looking at the above factors, I consider the NANO a winner, when it comes to being light on the pocket.

Again, I do not intend to prove any one wrong here, just thought I'd post my thoughts.

MODS - please edit/remove if found inappropriate.

Cheers!

Last edited by Jaggu : 25th March 2009 at 11:33. Reason: Fixing quote issues
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:41   #179
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Great Report!

Well its time I should buy this one for my wife for her Market commutes
Well or other way this looks like a great city car at great price for everyone

Provided you should get it, seeing the hype and bookings!
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Old 25th March 2009, 11:45   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
Ratan Tata has time & again insisted that he is creating a new method of transport, taking a 4 wheeler into new homes and giving a realistic upgrade option to biker-families. Thus, the entry-level pricing (1.3 - 1.5 OTR) is most crucial and the one that is relevant to 60 - 70% of the market.
While you have to give it to Ratan Tata for coming up with a great idea in a segment which all other players stayed away from (takes guts and loads of confidence), I do not see the bikers-to-Nano transition happening, like he believes. Atleast on the scale he thinks it will.

An entry level bike is available at 30K today, which when compared to the base-level Nano is less than 1/5th the price. While for most of us here, a Nano might be just small change, IMO it does not work that way in the segment he is targetting. Add to it sundry stuff like maintenance cost, fuel cost (even if Nano were to give the claimed 25kmpl, it is less than half that of an average bike) etc, and we are looking at serious expenses here.

Sort of like what happened in the past when many MNC's prepared their project reports before entering the Indian market - 1 billion population, of that if atleast so-and-so %age buys our products, we would be laughing all the way to the bank etc. But finally, the reality was way different from their calculations.

P.S. : I am not saying the Nano will be a flop. On the contrary, I believe it would be a hit. Just that the market won't be what Ratan Tata tries to project - getting the poor overloaded bikers into a car. Instead I feel it would be existing car users that would be the main buyers. Plus a segment that has more income than the avergae biker.
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