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Old 2nd October 2010, 12:03   #316
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Couldn't have agreed with you more.
Spending crores on an exotic sports car only to see it burning up in flames by itself is a zillion more times worse than the Nano burning up.
Also it's because of being Nano that the media is going frenzy.
I have read a couple of accidents where Innovas have caught fire just having a minor crash.
It's the same as Toyota's recall, the media hype is more if the company is popular or reputed.
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Old 8th October 2010, 19:34   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by issigonis View Post
The Nano has to win not only in India, but also in other developing countries, before casting it spell in the developed economies and on the 'developed' experts. This might happen with suitable design modifications to make it fit with local driving, traffic, safety environments and social expectations.
Yes, I looked at this report before. Normally in US a hatchback is considered not as a full car. We rarely see a american saying oh that hatchback looks cute. But I have seen various reports about nano and except for one or two all other reports were talking positively about that nano. Even the nano fires were reported but not over hyped like our media does. Well, for the price it sells for I think nano look cute.
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Old 16th October 2010, 20:01   #318
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Even the Nano's repair costs are nano . My best friend's Nano was parked out on a public street when a tempo side-swipped it. Both the doors of the passenger side were severely damaged. New doors + rubber beading + paint = Rs. 12,000 in total. Of course, this was at the authorised dealership.
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Old 21st October 2010, 20:32   #319
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Lightbulb Is the NANO story going wrong? Wish not !

Ratan Tata, the most respected CEO of the most respected brand of India saw a dream to put the simple middle class behind the wheels. The outcome was a world class product called NANO. A product that takes our pride beyond simple automotive technical excellence. It touches our emotions.

FLASHBACK!
It all seemingly was going correct, a prideful dream, an effort, a global declaration to build it, offer it at the Rs. 1 Lakh magic figure, then face the music from all sorts of automobile makers, viability issues, safety issues, bla bla bla.

Finally TATA delivered, a classic launch at the motor show and there went the all the people gala over the product. All critics silenced, the world amazed, a Rs 1 L car delivered as promised. The country went ecstatic with NANO, a real innovation on roads. Surely there were some put-off with its non-conventional design, but who cares, its just some. Months later bookings started- over 2 L bookings, 2nd best for the country after UNO launch. The whole country seemed to be buying NANO. It ran a chill in the competitors' spine. A TATA's car with SBI's bank loan, that was like national revolution.

NOT SO FLASHBACK
A woman in your life and you can be ruined or be successful without notice. NANO was suddenly hit by the MAMATA sting. Singur happens, and happens so badly that inspite of a 1 billion Indian support, NANO met with an infanticide. But NANO was strong, it took its first journey before birth from the Bengal to Gujarat. People were with it, and Sanand happenned. Deliveries delayed, no issue Mr. Tata, the loyalties stood strong.

The Day arrives, first NANO delivered, must have been a proud owner the first one. The say "well begun is half done", it was just half done.

Things start to go wrong

Life is a balance of the "five elements", modern world has a 6th element, MONEY. For NANO, seems 2 elements weren't quite happy.the Fire and Money. World is a costly place, delivering at Rs 1L was not easy. Mr. TATA still kept his promise, first 1L cars at base price Rs. 1L. Accepted, appreciated. Lottery chooses the Lucky 1 L.

Then the first NANO burns! and the second, and the third! Embarrassed, not accepted. Fear can topple the world's strongest nationalism, this was just a car. But the team did a lot of peace keeping.

Was it the falling of a pack of cards. NANO story burned to death. Bookings started being cancelled, bad talk hits market. TML board rooms gets busy, damage control exercise begins. NANO's engine was under the back-seat, people were already feeling the heat on the butts before delivery.

Story today
You have 1L selected customers, another 1L booked, car on offer for direct sale, Sanand production in full swing, Pantnagar did its best to keep up. So for sure there will be atleast 2 L NANO's on road. But is that all. With wafer thin margins, TML has to sell atleast 10K cars a month. Its just doing 6-7K, that too with pre-bookings. How does the story unfold once the booking deliveries finish and its choose it, buy it for NANO. Its not the same NANO we know now. Its an almost 2L variant car with some issues, some compromises and is a TATA. Does that sound encouraging. As a prideful Indian, I dont want NANO to fail, nobody wants it to fail. But will it fail, or fade out as a dream hit hurdles.Please NO.

Sorry for such a long prelude. I felt we really need to revisit the NANO story. Please bear with me!

Whats wrong with NANO
(In itallics are the general perceptions of non-petrol heads who form the major bulk of buyers)

1. all aluminium rear mounted MPFI : REAR, I knew only Ferraris and Lamborgini's had it at the back
2. EMS: 32-bit microprocessor : I don't know about that
3. piston displacement: 624 cc, petrol with single balancer shaft : thats not even 800 in the M800 (its was actually 749cc)
4. drive train: rear wheel drive : I don't know about that
5. cylinder count: 2 cylinders : Just 2, I mean we are already robbed of 1 for the M800 from the conventional 4
5. valve gear: 4 valves, 2 valves per cylinder : I don't know about that
6. max power: 35 bhp@5500 rpm : Are they matching Pulsar numbers (may be 2 of them)
7. torque: 4.8 kgm@3000 rpm : Nobody knows whats that
8. compression ratio: 9.7:1 :Nobody knows whats that
9. power to weight ratio: 0.58 :Nobody knows whats that

10. acceleration: 0-60 kmph: 8 secs : Dont others advertise that time for for 0-100
11. top speed: 105 kmph : When the egg rolls, rolling friction is the least

Now I have just listed a small spec sheet that i stole from an old sidindica's post (sorry for that). There are comments I have heard which drive you crazy but do reflect the general sentiment.

What is actually negative.
A car that had a tag of Rs 1L is now beyond Rs 2L (inflation i guess). People's confidence was hit with the initial incidents. its just a tad less than the base Alto K10 now, where you get a car with a boot, 1L proven engine and Maruti A*S*S*. Its more than competition.
Nano's no boot, under seat engine, and other cost cutting features are innovations that are eating its sales I feel.

I personally feel its a wonderful car, I dont mind seeing hundreds of them on road, its a pride I want to own. I wanted to buy a NANO for my parents, now I have reserved the decision( of course not just because of NANO, for others too).

Will TML be able to sell 10K Nanos' a month. Can they repeat the M800 success. They sure have the first mover advantage, but will it be the same. Others now know where not to faulter. Whats your take on this?
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Old 21st October 2010, 22:27   #320
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@ Just wheels , good initiative . Infact the other day when I had a discussion with my colleague , I came to know how most of the non-petrol heads dislike Nano . Many complaints that they raised , but mostly it was around the Nanos catching fire.

From what I understood from the reports is that the cause of fire is due to short circuits that happen near the dash ? If some gurus in the industry or from tata can throw some light into it , then it shall be great . I dont think that Tata is yet to arrive at the Root cause of this issue .

In between ,
Quote:
piston displacement: 624 cc, petrol with single balancer shaft : thats not even 800 in the M800 (its was actually 749cc)
Its 796 CC as per my knowledge , the same engine which is currently doing its duty in Alto .
Quote:
drive train: rear wheel drive : I don't know about that
Rear wheel drive and rear engines have the advantages of
1- Better traction due to the increased weight at the rear .
2-Better driving dynamics as the drive and steering are not at the same pair of wheels .

If I was to choose a M800 to a Nano , I would anyday go with a Nano for its space it offers inside and the price .

We would need to hear from the gurus in the area to dig upon what all went wrong .

cheers
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Old 21st October 2010, 22:59   #321
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For those non-petrolheads who happens to stumble upon this thread:

- It is not only Ferraris and Lambos, the VW beetles were also rear-engined; and 21,529,464 of them were built.

- try to find out the number of Nanos built so far and the number of them caught fire. Then find out the number of the world's best-selling (Boeing 737) jetliner built so far and the number of crashes involved with them here:
Boeing 737 Accident Reports
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Old 21st October 2010, 23:27   #322
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Cant understand the point of this thread, why not comment on the ones existing on the Nano already!!!
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Old 21st October 2010, 23:48   #323
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I also feel it would be more relevant to continue this conversation in the NANO test drive and review thread
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Old 21st October 2010, 23:49   #324
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1) Problem is that the too much minimalistic approach has hit Tata hard or will eventually hit Tata hard. The car was promised to be Rs. 1 lakh, but that figure is not existing in reality. Alto makes a good choice as the car is proven, now available with option of 1L engine that is a very good unit.

Alto can handle highways quite good even with F8D though the power is less, its certainly not that strained at 90-100 kmph.

2) The margins were thin from begenning, now the cost has increased. Maruti is able to offer good product at nearly the same price. Lack of boot space, very basic looking interiors are not going to gel well with the given price tag. Add to that the fact that lack of boot space also hits the overall proposition. Nano is good car for city driving, but cant take a family for weekend, something Alto can manage better.

Its not end of story and Nano will sell, but clearly the minimalistic approach has taken a toll on the product and image.
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Old 21st October 2010, 23:56   #325
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Good topic!

Fact is that you need volumes to deliver good products. The Malaysian government adopted proactive policies to see that their car industry achieved high volume sales. They gave tax breaks, built good roads and sold petrol cheap. Now they are targeting the budget car market in their export thrust.

Our government just sees the industry as ways to overcome inefficient tax collection: they target those with higher disposable incomes. They don't care about fragmentation of the product range. See the number of companies with operating licenses.

So companies are working out their own ways of achieving higher volumes.

Case to point, we were involved in selling a great tractor. But there was this company that hardballed us. (Read cheap company financing, zero margin money, territory capturing: we were angry at the time, but what to do when the government is short sighted? Now we admire their tactics, albeit the respect is grudgingly given. That's the business world).

Since the qualty and features were adequate, it swept the entire market. This allowed them efficiency and cost effectiveness. It used this as a launch pad for export and knocked Kubota off its perch as tractor of choice for small farmers in some countries. Now it can push its pickup in the same markets, because the farmers are happy with the performance and price of the tractor, and are willing to try other product from its portfolio.

TATAs are potentially able to do the same with its Nano model. The Indian public is willing to buy the Nano, but it has to deliver adequate quality: GREAT quality isn't even required, although that would help.

I think this is doable, because the Technology is simple. With a little goodwill from the public, which even in the face of past sins still exists, the company CAN get the volume sales it needs. Can you see these little buggies racing all over the developing countries, which will find them attractive because they are cheap, easy to maintain and repair, and tolerant of poor road conditions? Yes its a niche market, but that's where it all starts off. A stepping stone to greater things. Maybe electric or hybrid versions. The size is an advantage.

So yes, we have to support the Nano effort. Everybody has to do their bit. Just needs TATA to help us help 'em.

End of rant/pep talk.

Last edited by proton : 22nd October 2010 at 00:00. Reason: spelling
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Old 22nd October 2010, 00:21   #326
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i see a great future for Nano not just in India but globally only and only if if proves itself on reliability and durability front


For india a good diesel will do the trick and a PS with Autobox for both petrol and diesel will sell it to many many more, including me
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Old 22nd October 2010, 00:51   #327
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Justwheels: Don't really understand what you are trying to say. While maintaining nano is a great project you are actually pointing the negatives(some of which are not true) in a very clever/sarcastic way. A jackal under the goat skin kind of thing. My opinion is Nano will be a success. But I would wait for some months before I let my opinion on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justwheels View Post
its just a tad less than the base Alto K10
Not really. Please compare the prices and you will know.


Mods: please merge this to the test drive thread. Only a part of it got merged.

Last edited by airbender : 22nd October 2010 at 01:02.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 00:51   #328
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Umm. the MAruti 800 was also 35BHP. No one complaining about that? The nano is a brilliant engineering exercise. But yes, future models definately have more potential.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 13:26   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Justwheels: Don't really understand what you are trying to say. While maintaining nano is a great project you are actually pointing the negatives(some of which are not true) in a very clever/sarcastic way. A jackal under the goat skin kind of thing. My opinion is Nano will be a success. But I would wait for some months before I let my opinion on this thread.
May be I confused you a bit with my approach, I will try to make it clear.I perfectly agree that NANO is a prideful innovation. A car worth buying for sure. Personally I wish lots of success to it. (If you read carefully, I myself want to be a prospective buyer). But thats just the emotional part of it.

I wanted to discuss the business part of it. As a company, TML must have had some plans before the launch, are they heading in the same way? Whats not going right, or whats exceeded the expectations? In this process I tried to highlight the issues which might be a bottleneck in the dream run. When Punto or Linea sells in 1000's only, it just hurts FIAT to an extent (just an example), but if NANO starts selling 6-7K per month only, it will hurt a lot to the TATA, because of the wafer thin margins. Nano has to hit 15K per month. Imagine Nano attracted only 2L bookings, still the second best behind Uno. Now thats what I want to discuss here. The big WHY?

(no offence to anybody and no sarcasm about anything, a simple discussion about the business of NANO)

Alto K10 Metallic LX BS4 Rs. 268583.65 (MSL website)
NANO LX BS3 Rs. 1,72,360/- (Source :Zigwheels as nano website wasnt accessible)

Now how do I say its comparable when its Rs. 1L more. It is not, but what you get with that difference might woo away few customers. That was my hint by saying a "tad less"

Discussion is hot, may the NANO win! Amen.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 21:10   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justwheels View Post

Alto K10 Metallic LX BS4 Rs. 268583.65 (MSL website)
NANO LX BS3 Rs. 1,72,360/- (Source :Zigwheels as nano website wasnt accessible)

Now how do I say its comparable when its Rs. 1L more. It is not, but what you get with that difference might woo away few customers. That was my hint by saying a "tad less"

Discussion is hot, may the NANO win! Amen.
If you look at the percentage, Alto K10(not sure the version you are comparing has AC) is costlier by more than 50 percent from the topend nano. That's no way "tad less" for me.

On the bigger topic I would wait for few months before I comment.
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