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Old 24th March 2009, 05:42   #106
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It's a pity that some people always take the pain to try and degrade a big step taken ahead.

To call Nano a 'glorified two wheeler' is absolutely ridiculous! Especially when many of the world automobile critics have good things to say about it.

Let the car come out on road, Make or break it's name and then we can stretch on our chairs and type in these judgements.
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Old 24th March 2009, 08:17   #107
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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
You need to read up more, boy. TATA was the first company to do crash tests in India and if they have done the tests and it conforms to certain norms, then it is evident that the norms exist, right? If TATA were not sure of NANO's crash worthiness, they would not dream of a European version.

Frankly, I am at a loss to understand why you are at such a pain to dismiss the Nano even before its available. Bitten by TATA, anytime?
Its true that Tata is the only company to have to have crash testing facility, I wonder how many get tested.
And European version is still two years away.
I am not happy with Nano as a car.

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The M800 is not a 'Scaled down proper car' its an Outdated small car. No offense to the M800, but its useless comparing a car that's nearly three decades old to something that was launched yesterday
Nano as a car makes me feel a bit odd. Its just too minimalistic to say the least. If M800 can do without power assisted steering, even alto can do it, there is no point in offering these features. Why not give better quality where it matters like tyres, engine options, prope wiper system, a rear hatch that can open.

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Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
It's a pity that some people always take the pain to try and degrade a big step taken ahead.

To call Nano a 'glorified two wheeler' is absolutely ridiculous! Especially when many of the world automobile critics have good things to say about it.
The world did appreciate many cars, not all of them were the best.
The point is this, the Nano was designed from grounds up with on parameter in mind " Two wheeler upgrade ". This shows in such a minimalistic car nano happens to be. A rear hatch does not open, a space saver, a puny engine and I seriously doubt the dynamics of this vehicle.
Its not a big step ahead from my point of view.

However, I appreicate Tata for providing the trailing arm IRS. Even the Vista does not have this.
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Old 24th March 2009, 08:23   #108
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Also the battery fixed inside car that too below drivers seat is bit risky specially when its getting charged and dangerous fumes comes out, think of running AC in air circulation mode, hope Tata's will rectify this issue before delivery.
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Old 24th March 2009, 08:36   #109
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Originally Posted by bhogalrajnish View Post
I'l get the engine and put it on my enfield...

I was thinking on the same lines.
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Old 24th March 2009, 08:56   #110
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Its true that Tata is the only company to have to have crash testing facility, I wonder how many get tested.
And European version is still two years away.
I am not happy with Nano as a car.



Nano as a car makes me feel a bit odd. Its just too minimalistic to say the least. If M800 can do without power assisted steering, even alto can do it, there is no point in offering these features. Why not give better quality where it matters like tyres, engine options, prope wiper system, a rear hatch that can open.



The world did appreciate many cars, not all of them were the best.
The point is this, the Nano was designed from grounds up with on parameter in mind " Two wheeler upgrade ". This shows in such a minimalistic car nano happens to be. A rear hatch does not open, a space saver, a puny engine and I seriously doubt the dynamics of this vehicle.
Its not a big step ahead from my point of view.
- Aren't we getting too harsh here with the criticism? The point is that the designers had to work backwards from the price criterion of Rs 1 Lakh - which is not usually the case for other projects where the price would be more in a range of values. The Nano does have several design aspects, some of which you have already mentioned, to reduce production costs and limit the price. So they appear to have focused on innovative design and thinking to come up with solutions, rather than just plain cost-cutting.

We need to grant the point that the project certainly has achieved a lot. I mean the Nano is hardly the 'Marutha' (modified pump-set engine mounted on a discarded Jeep chassis with open seating - used in villages in the North) that you are making it out to be. Yes all those additional bits and pieces that you wish could be added -but then the price would drift northward- and how much more do you want from the baseline objective of a simple, lowest-cost compact runabout?

I believe that instead of additional features, QA is going to be the next BIG challenge for this project. The Pantnagar plant - the chaps who produce the little truck -Ace are expected to churn out the first batch of Nanos - and keeping the 'truck culture' out of the car's assembly line is going to take some BIG effort!

And I shudder to think of future servicing at TASCs - the rest of us non-Nano chaps trying to wade through the sea of Nanos' that will undoubtedly clog the Tata workshops!
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:06   #111
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As an Indian its a matter of great pride for me that an Indian company actually produce d such a car. recently i was in Germany for official visit to a very big R&D center of a technology company, One of this R&D unit was bought by TATA and it made me feel proud to see a Tata name on the same building.
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:08   #112
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Its true that Tata is the only company to have to have crash testing facility, I wonder how many get tested.
Ask people who've had a crash in an indica (their smallest car till the nano), they'll tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Nano as a car makes me feel a bit odd. Its just too minimalistic to say the least. If M800 can do without power assisted steering, even alto can do it, there is no point in offering these features. Why not give better quality where it matters like tyres, engine options, prope wiper system, a rear hatch that can open.
Have you ever been to the grocery store and opted to buy Dhara's vegetable oil than Safola (just an example)? Are'nt you compromising on quality wrt price? Dude the price will go up if your above said "better quality stuff" is to be put in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The world did appreciate many cars, not all of them were the best.
The point is this, the Nano was designed from grounds up with on parameter in mind " Two wheeler upgrade ". This shows in such a minimalistic car nano happens to be. A rear hatch does not open, a space saver, a puny engine and I seriously doubt the dynamics of this vehicle.
Its not a big step ahead from my point of view.

However, I appreicate Tata for providing the trailing arm IRS. Even the Vista does not have this.
With all due respect to you i think as all have said that you should TD the car to know the true picture. As far as your presumptions and assumptions go, appreciate the work of the people who are hired by tata. Maybe you will be stumped at the work done with a price constrain in mind.



P.S. I'm sorry if i'm hurting anyone in the process but i think its better to appreciate something than ridicule it if you can't think of anything better with the same roadblocks in place.

Last edited by NOS Power : 24th March 2009 at 09:18.
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:20   #113
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Default Imagine this

You are a middle class guy with a normal, wife 2 kids and parents family.

Normal job with normal income and normal needs

You are the majority

You have 40,000 to buy a scooter. That's the most sensible thing to do. Then comes along Mr. Ratan Tata, says, give me your 40,000 and then pay 2,000 for the next 5 years every month as EMI, and I'll give you this...
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:21   #114
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Here is America's Feedback........


Nano a hit? Yes and no say US auto critics

Source : Economic Times

Tata's Nano has got mixed reviews from Motown, with US auto critics acknowledging its surprisingly comfortable and spacious interiors (the key metric for a small car), but drawing up a checklist of drawbacks, including its dodgy sound and speed.

''The first thing that impresses is the space. Four adults can sit comfortably in the simple and spartan interior. The seats are thin and flat, but surprisingly comfortable. Plastic and fabric quality is better than expected, though the carpet looks cheap,'' the influential magazine Autoweek’s observed after a test drive in Pune.

''Start up the Nano and you immediately know it's powered by a rear-mounted engine. The all-aluminum twin uses a single balance shaft, yet it is not very smooth or refined and sounds a bit like a lawn mower, ''reviewer Bob Rupani wrote, adding that the passenger compartment has been well isolated from the sound but not from all the harshness. ''Even at idle you can feel the engine rocking, and under hard acceleration the vibrations become quite evident. Thankfully, the four-speed gearbox is precise, light and pleasing.''

The magazine also praised the car’s efficient air-conditioning (in its superior models), its brakes , and its maneuverability, but was uncomfortable with its body rolls. ''Throw the Nano through curves and though it leans like the Tower of Pisa,'' Rupani observed tartly.

News of the Nano launch was splashed across the entire spectrum of US media, from automotive magazines, to general newspapers, radio, and television. At a time of an unprecedented downturn in the automobile industry and the presumed death throes of Detroit, dubbed Motown for long being the centre of the auto universe, Nano has breathed new life into the debate about small cars and efficiencies.

CNBC juxtaposed Nano’s release with the unveiling in New York of the Baby Rolls Royce 200 EX, one priced at around $ 2500 and the other about a hundred times more expensive and dubbed the ''Recession Royce.''

''Nano represents the hope for a new era in cars and transportation. Not just for the people of India, but millions others in developing countries, '' the network said, calling the new Tata car a ''game changer.''

''Sure, people in the US and elsewhere will chuckle about the Nano coming without air bags or anti-lock brakes, but they are missing the bigger picture. This car will finally put tens of thousands behind the wheel...the Recession Rolls...with an estimated starting price of $250,000 to $280,000 it is gonna be hard to change the lives of millions,'' it added.

While Motown’s misgivings may not be germane for the Indian market, it is important for Tata’s plans to introduce European and American models of the Nano in the future.

According to Autoweek, for Europe (and potentially for the US if the car makes it stateside), the Nano Europa (when it arrives in 2011) will have a bigger, 934cc, 60-hp three-cylinder engine and have a top speed of 95mph, a five-speed automatic, a wider track, disc brakes, ABS, stability control, improved driving dynamics and ride, better equipment and a finished interior, along with driver and passenger airbags.

It will also be slightly longer and comply with all safety and crash test standards, while still being the cheapest car in the world at less than $ 5,000. ''Add an estimated fuel economy of at least 67 mpg and the Nano Europa may be right for many an economy buyer's shopping list,'' Autoweek said.

The magazine said speed or acceleration were not key metrics for the Indian Nano, which is aimed primarily at the dense urban market.

''The benchmark for the Nano was not the acceleration figure of 0 to 62 mph, but 0 to 38 mph because it will be primarily used as an urban vehicle. In our tests, 38 mph arrived in about 10 seconds, but getting to 62 mph took nearly 33 seconds. Top speed is limited to 65 mph,'' it observed.

''Though not impressive at the test track, in the dense and slow-moving traffic of Pune, India (the city where Tata Motors is based and where it was test driven), the Nano acquits itself well, feeling more than adequate and well qualified to play the role of an urban city commuter,'' it added.
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:26   #115
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My views, I am not responding to any post as such, so no offence meant
1. Its a big step forward for the majority of the people in this country. People like us can afford bigger cars and think in terms of rejecting a car just because it is 100 bhp against another car's 115 bhp or one car having goodies against another car coming bare; safety, crumple zones, crash test results. But think about the intended buyer group for Nano. It is the folks using 2 wheelers and any day without doubt Nano will be more safer than a 2 wheeler.

2. What needs to be lauded is that Tata had the guts to have a vision and fulfil the same. These are stepping stones in our indigenous car manufacturing journey. We need to have a car industry which produces world class cars by indian manufaturers and these baby steps will take us there one day. We have already seen some announcements from Bajaj etc to launch a competitor in this segment.

3. I often hear moans from colleagues and friends that Nano will unnecessarily clog roads and make our life miserable. Though it is logical, dont you feel it is selfish? A month back when I saw a Nano in a marketplace, the joy and enthusiasm shown by lot of folks over this car was immense, much more than the wait with bated breath for the ANHC

IMHO, its a feather in cap for Tata to achieve what they set out for inspite of so many odds and the price point is definitely going to change the entry level car segment forever!!

Last edited by Meer : 24th March 2009 at 09:28. Reason: mis typed
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:29   #116
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Default A bike with a roof and two more wheels

That is what a small car concept is. When Ford launched Model T and changed the course of automobile history, this is what they started with - a bike with a roof.

All the comments that I have seen here seem to come from members who are failry well versed with cars, if not experts in their own right. But the way I see it, the intended target audience is two wheelers and small families. It is to cater to their need to upgrade to a four wheeler. Whether the absence of power steering, powerful engine, peppy drive, etc will matter to them - well, in my opinion that is suspect. The only thing they might be missing (in the base version) is the AC.

Considering this, I believe, this car will script a new chapter in automotive history. We will see a slew of 'me-too' and four years later, the '1 lakh' tag will not have much attraction. Then people will start looking at what else the car offers - comfort, safety, features, etc.

I remember that the Maruti 800 was a runaway hit when launched. Even though it was much smaller than even Premier Padmini. Now, we look at space and are ready to pay a premium for it. The 800 remains a car for the 'new to the category'. Tata has just taken over that mantle with the Nano. And to that extent, the volumes will placce it at the top.

All other factors - quality, build, features - come in next.
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Old 24th March 2009, 09:52   #117
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Was observing this thread with utmost curiosity.... No doubt that Nano is going to make a big hit!!!!

Thanks TATA for their valuable contribution to HINDUSTANIs. Now CAR is for everyINDIAN, no more overloaded family bikes in street .

To be frank, I was under the impression that NANO would be a practical solution only for city driving. But GTOs TD gains confidence, now i consider myself getting a high end NANO as a replacement for my Alto VX
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Old 24th March 2009, 10:01   #118
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Ratan Tata himself has said that the Nano venture will be a profitable one. with over 2000 crores spent on the project, the break even point might take a few years for sure to come.

Its pretty much evident from the pricing which i find acceptable. Is somebody expecting Pricing/ Quality miracles to happen when you have the infamous primitive autos retailing well over 1.5 lakhs with zilch safety and causing a zillion fatalities on the roads.

The profit margins are low with clever packaging and ingenious engineering solutions to make this happen. As an overall package built for a price, I see fantastic value for money.

There will be a lot of avatars of the car in the next couple of years. If all goes well, we may get the european spec Nano gracing our roads for around 3 lakhs with better engine , safety features and quality.

Tata will get a bit of cash with all the the lakhs of bookings that they are expecting (arnd 1000 crores plus). I feel they are worthy of it as they took the challenge to deliver with some big investment in troubled times.

Its too early to start scrutinising and nitpicking without giving it a look and giving some time for the car to sink into the nook and corners of Indian streets.

I repeat compare it with the Auto rick which costs well above 1.5 lakhs and then talk about safety, quality pricing etc.


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Last edited by muni : 24th March 2009 at 10:04.
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Old 24th March 2009, 10:07   #119
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I am not happy with Nano as a car.
Yep. You have every right to not to be happy with nano. But I don't understand how you don't find nano as car. I'm not saying you should, but it would be great if you could explain "what makes Matiz, M800, Spark, and Santro a car and not a nano"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Nano as a car makes me feel a bit odd. Its just too minimalistic to say the least. If M800 can do without power assisted steering, even alto can do it, there is no point in offering these features. Why not give better quality where it matters like tyres, engine options, prope wiper system, a rear hatch that can open.
Yes, I completely agree with that. PS is not a necessity, but a luxury. Isn't it the same case with AC?
Perhaps thats why we have three variants of nano where PS and AC aren't aqvailable in base variant.

And yes one can replace PS by better tyres and better engine in same cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The world did appreciate many cars, not all of them were the best.
The point is this, the Nano was designed from grounds up with on parameter in mind " Two wheeler upgrade ". This shows in such a minimalistic car nano happens to be. A rear hatch does not open, a space saver, a puny engine and I seriously doubt the dynamics of this vehicle.
Its not a big step ahead from my point of view.
Indeed nano is minimalistic car. It's just designed to get you from point "a" to point "b". Why don't you do it this way,
1) List all the base hatches (A and B Class) available in india
2) Put each of them against "nano" for comparison
3) List out the things you are getting more from nano (if there are) and call it as "ListN"
4) Estimate prices for the particulrs in ListN and call it "DELTA".
5) Now list out the the things which are not there in nano but in the competitor and call it as "ListO".
6) Now calculate EXTRA = PRICE OF COMPETITOR - (PRICE OF NANO - DELTA).
7) Now decide how much sense it makes to pay EXTRA for ListO particulars. If it makes sense, clearly Nano isn't a big step ahead.
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Old 24th March 2009, 10:27   #120
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Default A Great Step Forward Towards Dr. kalam's Vision 2020

Kudos to t-bhp for this TD. Apart from All safety features and more, its the real VFM, not only for so called two wheeler upgraders but people like us on t-bhp who drives swanky four wheelers as Nano is going to be a real city vehicle. I do remember a new article few months back citing the example of Nano having the cheapest Airbag in the world at just $10/peice. So, when TATA Motors has already done the deal at this price for an airbag, I am sure they will introduce it once they reach 100000 initial 'price freeze' mark. So one should not doubt about the safety features also.
I see this development as a step forward to fulfil the dream of our Dr. Abdul Kalam's vision 2020.
How can I forget to Congratulate Team TATA who achieved this milestone?
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