The VTEC strikes back!

[imjimmy]

Vtec was mainly designed to extract more FE with the already existing power, produced by the high revving Honda engines.

Was the OHC 1.5 Vtec more FE than OHC 1.5.

The same logic might not apply to the NHC Idsi and NHC Vtec. If i recall correctly in the ACI test the NHC Vtec had significantly lesser mileage than the NHC Idsi. Maybe it's bcoz of the huge HP difference and the power surge when the valves open up at high RPm's.

Again if the NHC Vtec FE falls short of the NHC Idsi figures then the USP of FE is eroded.

[shuvc]

The ZX Vtec and the Fiesta 1.6 both, I think, have compression ratios =>9.75:1 ..
Does this mean one should use minimum 91 Octane fuel in them ?
@Goldie .. what does the manual say ?

[goldie_malhotra]

Here are some pics of my NHC VTEC. Its a bluish-silver color.
These snaps were taken the very next day with my cell-phone, so may not be of very good quality but are bearable.





Also, some update on queries
1. There is indeed an alloy wheel for a spare
2. Honda recommends regular unleaded fuel for NHC, not premium - I think that is 91 octane - am I right.

[Shan2nu]

Was the OHC 1.5 Vtec more FE than OHC 1.5.

The same logic might not apply to the NHC Idsi and NHC Vtec. If i recall correctly in the ACI test the NHC Vtec had significantly lesser mileage than the NHC Idsi. Maybe it's bcoz of the huge HP difference and the power surge when the valves open up at high RPm's.

Again if the NHC Vtec FE falls short of the NHC Idsi figures then the USP of FE is eroded.

But then again, the City 1.5 was also 6 bhp less powerful wasn't it? If the City 1.5 had 106bhp, then it would have made for a better comparison. That said, i've got 21kmpl from my Vtec (and this isn't something printed in a mag). 16-17kmpl is the norm when we do highway runs.

How can you compare a 77bhp engine with a 106 bhp one or even the new Vtec? Obvoiusly the huge hp diff will increase FE. Why not try comparing it to any other 1.5-1.6 ltr "Naturally Aspirated" car producing 100-106 bhp, then you'll see the diff.

The i-dsi was designed with fuel efficiency in mind, it can never perform like a Vtec. It's a completely diff concept.

Thats car, can almost match a diesel powered Accent in terms of FE. If you don't trust OD figures, try Autocar.

Accent crdi
City - 12.3
Highway - 16.7

NHC
City - 10.9
Highway - 16.6

Shan2nu

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra

Here are some pics of my NHC VTEC. Its a bluish-silver color.

Also, some update on queries
1. There is indeed an alloy wheel for a spare
2. Honda recommends regular unleaded fuel for NHC, not premium - I think that is 91 octane - am I right.

Lovely colour .. I believe they are offering this colour exclusively on the VTec .. even the old Vtec had this colour , right ?

hmmm .. so the steel spare wheel was a typo in ACI

I thought regular unleaded is 87 .. is Speed 87 or 91 ? XtraPremium is 91.

[imjimmy]

NHC
City - 10.9
Highway - 16.6

And the Baleno figures are approx 9.8 and 15.8 or therabouts..(Don't have ACI handy at this moment.). Shows a 1 Km difference in city and in highway.
(Also ACI quoted figures are for the Euro II Baleno. A Euro III is more FE.)
Ofcourse the figures of Lancer would be similar. And those of the NHC Vtec would be similar to the Baleno/Lancer rather than the Accent Crdi or the NHC Idsi.

How can you compare a 77bhp engine with a 106 bhp one or even the new Vtec? Obvoiusly the huge hp diff will increase FE. Why not try comparing it to any other 1.5-1.6 ltr "Naturally Aspirated" car producing 100-106 bhp, then you'll see the diff.

That's the pt. Even with the 77Bhp engine the NHC Idsi is at best 1-1.5 Km more FE as compared to the other japanese/light-efficient cars having power in the range of 85-100 Hp. So the NHC Vtec figures would be similar to other cars(being a little lesser than the NHC Idsi). For comparison Baleno,Lancer Petra(to an extent) and probably even the Fiesta 1.6.

I am sure there are other reasons to buy the NHC VTec than FE. Don't think anyone bought the OHC Vtec bcoz of FE. The FE issue is blown out of proportion, as i said before there are cars that are similar(not same) in FE as the NHC Idsi,Vtec.

Does this mean one should use minimum 91 Octane fuel in them ?

Fiesta is built and optimized for 91 Octane. Lesser Octane will just retard the timing and lead to lesser efficiency. Dunno about the NHC.
But i think it's safe to use the IOCL 91 Octane Xtra premium. It surely makes a performance/FE difference in almost all cars old and new. I have never reverted back to 87 Oct Unleaded or Power, Speed(87 Oct) after having used IOC's Xtra Premium.

[Shan2nu]

I am sure there are other reasons to buy the NHC VTec than FE

Yup, people buy Vtec for performance with FE. The Vtec is quicker than the Baleno and more FE. Both, ACI and Overdrive will agree with that.

Vtec vs Palio GTX, Ford Fiesta, Corsa 1.6, Petra 1.6, Ikon 1.6, Lancer 1.5 ....you name the car and it'll beat it in both, performance and FE. There's no car in that segment which is as powerful, as fast and as FE, at the same time.

You'l probably have to compare their diesel version with the Vtec to match it's FE but then, performance is way down on those cars.

I tell you, pick up any ACI mag and just go through the performance and FE figs. Show me one car in the 1500-1600 cc category which can match the Vtec in Power, Performance and FE.

For the rec, here are the FE figs for the Old Vtec as tested by ACI.

Vtec
City - 11.9
Highway - 16.4

Shan2nu

[GTO]

That said, i've got 21kmpl from my Vtec (and this isn't something printed in a mag). 16-17kmpl is the norm when we do highway runs.

Damn Shantanu, I have never got over 10 - 12 on highway runs in my Vtec. But then again, I ought to start realising that there is a 4th and 5th gear. You see...high revving is TOO MUCH FUN

Congrats on the car Goldie

GTO

[Shan2nu]

Damn Shantanu, I have never got over 10 - 12 on highway runs in my Vtec. But then again, I ought to start realising that there is a 4th and 5th gear. You see...high revving is TOO MUCH FUN

Dude, considering your driving style, even 12kmpl is creditable. LOL

I still remember the day you drove the car on the xpressway with full load and looking at the speeds you were hitting, i didn't expect it to give even 10kmpl but, your car did manage 11.5-12kmpl.

Next time, try driving normally and you'l see figs of over 16kmpl (easy).

Shan2nu

[goldie_malhotra]

Just got some figures on FE from the first run of my VTEC

on a tank of 40 litres, it gave me nearly 500 kms - which translates into 12-12.5 kmpl in city

Though most of the driving has been during rush-hour traffic to office and back (except for a couple of weekend drives) and I didnt get a chance to rev the engine really high.

[Shan2nu]

on a tank of 40 litres, it gave me nearly 500 kms - which translates into 12-12.5 kmpl in city

Thats good, considering that the engine hasn't been run in as yet. You will see a rise in that fig once your car covers some serious mileage.

Shan2nu

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Vtec vs Palio GTX, Ford Fiesta, Corsa 1.6, Petra 1.6, Ikon 1.6, Lancer 1.5 ....you name the car and it'll beat it in both, performance and FE. There's no car in that segment which is as powerful, as fast and as FE, at the same time.

Whoa! NHC VTec vs Petra 1.6. Both produce same power with Petra 1.6 delivering more peak torque at lesser RPM. If you think it is slow, its because it's heavier built. And FE? Forget tall/short claims of ACI. I regularly get ~11 in city and 15-167 on highway. Now, it costs more than 3L less than NHC Vtec and though Petra and NHC VTec can go close on performance, VTec can not come close to Petra's ride quality. Petra is quite drivable in city due to higher torque at lower RPM. As I said, just because it's a Honda carrying VTec tag, one doesn't have to think that it's great.

[Shan2nu]

Whoa! NHC VTec vs Petra 1.6. Both produce same power with Petra 1.6 delivering more peak torque at lesser RPM. If you think it is slow, its because it's heavier built. And FE? Forget tall/short claims of ACI. I regularly get ~11 in city and 15-167 on highway. Now, it costs more than 3L less than NHC Vtec and though Petra and NHC VTec can go close on performance, VTec can not come close to Petra's ride quality. Petra is quite drivable in city due to higher torque at lower RPM. As I said, just because it's a Honda carrying VTec tag, one doesn't have to think that it's great.

OK BOSS!!!

PS : Rtech - I owe you one. Hehe

Shan2nu

[Floyd de Souza]

Hey RX135,
Agreed the Petra is excellent VFM. I own an S10 and believe me it is a wonderful car. The problem is not the car. Its the company. If the Petra was in the Honda stable, it would have sold 10000 cars every month. For that 3 lakhs you get the following :

1. Peace of mind
2. Peace of mind
3. Peace of mind
4. More luxury
5. Better FE(notwithstanding your claim of ~11kpl..I do not get more than 8kpl with AC and driving to maximise FE in the city)
6. Almost 1 sec faster 0-100 time
7. 1 yr extra warranty

After owning the S10 I think the Vtec is worth the 3 lakhs extra. Inconsistent quality and *** are a problem in at least 70-80% of Fiat cars. In my first 18 months of ownership, I have taken the car to the dealer at least 6 times to rectify problems..mostly minor and have spent a good bit of money to keep the car in shape. And I service the car every three months(overkill). Whenever I think of a change...my heart says..why not enjoy her a little more...and every time I return from a long trouble-free run..I say "no way Jose". But when it is actually time to change, I would spend the 3 lakhs extra. Both my heart and mind would be at peace.

[goldie_malhotra]

Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza

1. Peace of mind
2. Peace of mind
3. Peace of mind

Couldnt agree with you more.

In fact, peace of mind was one of the considerations while going for Honda, while compared to other dealers like Ford(Fiesta) & GM (Optra), and Fiat didnt cross my mind even once (no guesses why )

Majority of Honda owners are rather pleased with the very few amount of troubles they have had with their cars over the long run. I just couldnt get the same feedback from long-term Ford or GM or Fiat owners, who felt a bit grumpy when it came to maintainence, and beared with it only bcos they loved their cars so much.

Though, even more pleased were maruti and hyundai owners (self included), thanks to the excellent service network and low spare & labour costs.