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Old 10th January 2006, 11:54   #91
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According to ACI 0-100 in 10.66 secs (on par with the OHC 1.5).
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Old 11th January 2006, 04:55   #92
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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
According to ACI 0-100 in 10.66 secs (on par with the OHC 1.5).

Isnt that supposed to be what lancer invecs is providing? Look at autocar Figures for the invecs which is around 11secs in the automatic mode. So manual will be marginally faster and copetitive to the 10.66 of the vtec. and in gear acceleration will be faster.

If one can pay for vtec y not pay the same price for a more powerful engine with tiptronic?

I love this

Last edited by devarshi84 : 11th January 2006 at 04:58.
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Old 11th January 2006, 10:45   #93
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Devarshi,

You seem upset with the NHC for whatever reason/s. I agree that the Lancer is a better drivers car but it is the combination of factors that it is lacking. As a complete package, the Honda is better. If Mitsubishi was doing well financially, had a new design(in competition with NHC in India), was economical to run and own, had its current handling abilities and better quality, then maybe Honda would have been worried. Honda were averaging around 1200 units of the OHC. With the NHC, if I am not mistaken, the numbers are >3000 units per month, month after month. You cannot fool so many people especially in this country, with a value conscious population. However much we may try to convince ourselves that the NHC is no good, ultimately the numbers speak for themselves.
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Old 11th January 2006, 12:26   #94
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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
Devarshi,

As a complete package, the Honda is better. If Mitsubishi was doing well financially, had a new design(in competition with NHC in India), was economical to run and own, had its current handling abilities and better quality, then maybe Honda would have been worried. Honda were averaging around 1200 units of the OHC. With the NHC, if I am not mistaken, the numbers are >3000 units per month, month after month. You cannot fool so many people especially in this country, with a value conscious population. However much we may try to convince ourselves that the NHC is no good, ultimately the numbers speak for themselves.
In Bangalore, even in the last week of December, there was not one car in their hot selling color - new warm silver - pending.. I am aware that one of the dealers sold one on the 30th with not a paisa discount.
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Old 11th January 2006, 13:22   #95
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Thumbs down City ZX no thank you, i would take the OHC VTEC

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IMHO, both are quite well matched up considering the performance figures (in latest issue of ACI)

So, the newer one is no slouch when it comes to performance.

Maybe hard-core performance freaks should consider whether they want cold-blooded figures or some hot-blooded action. And then it is simpler to decide.
Me and my bro went for a test drive. We went to Hirandani, Haiko where Linkway had brought the ZX series. Got into the car. Not much of a difference then the IDSi except blacker interiors on top and beige below.

Now coming to the point. First Gear Floored hit 6700RPM ( It went into the red zone and then the ECU cut off) Does Vtec have some different ECU timing cut off for different environment???

Performance is good but not something to compare with the Old Vtec. Its simply in a class of its own. Not much noise from the car( and hence not much adrenalin rush) and the motor feels sluggish after 5000RPM. Its not how fast you go, its how you go fast.

Braking is as usual pathetic. With the significant boost in power, only discs with poor 175/65/14 rubber on Alloys doesnot help to halt car from standstill but juss causes wheels to lock up. I dont know what Honda is upto, they say ABS is not required in India. Infact on standing at the pedal at 60 kmph only the car locked so crazy the steering was turned to full lock but still car kept going straight. If any one happens to go near Haiko you may still be able to see the marks left by the Goodyears.

The Marketing cheif was so pissed off when the car was locked right in front of the stall and drew a lot of attention in the crowd. He was shaking his head after the test drive which lasted for just 0.7 km.

Car looks ok, not too appealing. The OHC Vtec looked sporty in her own right, which is missing in this car. Handling is not great, and stability a big question. Ride is pretty good and has become better with the ZX series. Steering feels disconnected like the Scorpio. Such a super over sensitive steering.

To Sum Up this car is not bang for the buck, for 8 more valves Alloys and dics you charge 80,000 shocking. Also Spidy has said once "With Great POWER comes great resposibilty." Request people to talk in 0 - 100 - 0 timings rather then pure 0 - 100 numbers.

I would rather prefer an Accent or a fiesta with ABS then this Vtec, and the money which i save i can added Cool Ice in these HOT cars. I just hope the New Civic gives some OHC Vtec feel to us hungry enthusiats.

Last edited by BUSA : 11th January 2006 at 13:25.
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Old 12th January 2006, 07:09   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
Devarshi,

You seem upset with the NHC for whatever reason/s. I agree that the Lancer is a better drivers car but it is the combination of factors that it is lacking. As a complete package, the Honda is better. If Mitsubishi was doing well financially, had a new design(in competition with NHC in India), was economical to run and own, had its current handling abilities and better quality, then maybe Honda would have been worried. Honda were averaging around 1200 units of the OHC. With the NHC, if I am not mistaken, the numbers are >3000 units per month, month after month. You cannot fool so many people especially in this country, with a value conscious population. However much we may try to convince ourselves that the NHC is no good, ultimately the numbers speak for themselves.

lancer invecs:- better handling, bigger engine, invecs gearbox

nhc vtec:- better interiors, newer design, vtec engine

the price is around same including personal selection of

fog lights, alloy wheels and mp3 system

what does the lancer miss out on?

Last edited by devarshi84 : 12th January 2006 at 07:14.
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Old 12th January 2006, 11:02   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
lancer invecs:- better handling, bigger engine, invecs gearbox

nhc vtec:- better interiors, newer design, vtec engine

the price is around same including personal selection of

fog lights, alloy wheels and mp3 system

what does the lancer miss out on?
what the customer wants i.e. what you have specified and in addition FE. In that segment probably customers don't look at engine size, handling or gearbox type.
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Old 12th January 2006, 13:17   #98
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lancer invecs:- better handling, bigger engine, invecs gearbox

nhc vtec:- better interiors, newer design, vtec engine

the price is around same including personal selection of

fog lights, alloy wheels and mp3 system

what does the lancer miss out on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
what the customer wants i.e. what you have specified and in addition FE. In that segment probably customers don't look at engine size, handling or gearbox type.
and most importantly the Honda badge which the lancer can only dream off....

~A
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Old 12th January 2006, 13:25   #99
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Originally Posted by BUSA
The NHC Vtec is slow. It has a top whack of only 170khph, a Baleno can whip her there. The OHC Vtec could reach 190+
NHC Vtec - Poor Handling and it tends to lose control at high speed the rear tries to Overtake the front.
And For all you OHC Vtec freaks, L.K has prepared a OHC Vtec which has 170bhp @ .55bar boost. Does Wheel Spin like crazy. Can be tuned to 250BHP. 0 - 60 = 3.17secs and it reaches 100 in 6.56 secs. Quarter Mile = 14.85. Hopefully he wishes to extract 250BHP and thats means 0 - 100 in less then 5 secs and Quarter Mile in 11 secs.
Imagine the power to weight. And yes it a Vtec, who said it cant be turbo charged??
Where on earth did you get the top whack of the NHC Vtec as 170 kph. Autocar has estimated it to be over 190 clicks. High speed stability is a different issue altogether. By the way, the OHC was also not a very stable car above 120 k's
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Old 12th January 2006, 13:36   #100
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Question

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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
Where on earth did you get the top whack of the NHC Vtec as 170 kph. Autocar has estimated it to be over 190 clicks. High speed stability is a different issue altogether. By the way, the OHC was also not a very stable car above 120 k's
There is a differene in estimation and achievement. OD have tested the car and it fails to go over 172kmph ( True Speed Using Vbox.

OD..
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On the expressway where the winds are constantly in a state of turmoil, and omce the Vtec gets past the 130kmph threshold she becomes remarkably unstable. I quite simply square the blame on any single aspect; whether the suspension cannot cope with the surface unevenness at those high speeds or if it is a design flaw and makes the City feel extrememly light to get blown off its feet At speeds past the ton the VTEC just does not exbhit the same stright line stabilty as its counterparts
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Old 12th January 2006, 13:46   #101
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Default OD review doubtful .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
There is a differene in estimation and achievement. OD have tested the car and it fails to go over 172kmph ( True Speed Using Vbox.

OD..
But I am seriously wondering what car OD has tested -
- they mentioned the NHC VTEC does not have alloy wheel for a spare - mine does.
- they mentioned that it lacks rear discs - mine most definitely has them.
- they dont mention much difference in stablity between the NHC and NHC ZX, while there most definitely is.
- they simply cannot pinpoint where the problem might lie - tyres, suspension, steering etc..... - it is just a gut feeling on the journo's part, which he cant point a finger on - totally subjective - let me tell him where the problem, if any, lies - its in the lower profile of the tyres and the light steering which can takes getting used to while cornering at high speeds.


hence, i am not sure in which light to take that figure of 172 ??

Have they been smoking d**e while writing this review ??
Based on past experience with OD, one can say that with much confidence
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Old 12th January 2006, 14:11   #102
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they mentioned the NHC VTEC does not have alloy wheel for a spare - mine does
Generally all cars with stock alloys have only 4 coming with them, even the Mercs so that maybe thats why.

The NHC Vtec needs 15inchers to handle better.


Quote:
- they mentioned that it lacks rear discs - mine most definitely has them.


Well that must be a type O, since with the amount of boost in power the brakes have not been able to cop up, so it tends to make you feel that is there Dics in the car??


Quote:
- they dont mention much difference in stablity between the NHC and NHC ZX, while there most definitely is.

Both the NHC and NHC ZX have hardly any difference, its so minute you can hardly figure it out but there is quite a difference if you observe clearly.

Quote:
- they simply cannot pinpoint where the problem might lie - tyres, suspension, steering etc..... - it is just a gut feeling on the journo's part, which he cant point a finger on - totally subjective - let me tell him where the problem, if any, lies - its in the lower profile of the tyres and the light steering which can takes getting used to while cornering at high speeds.
Its not that the lower the profile the better the car is at high speeds. From a Amateurs point of view the car is poor to handle, wheras a Pros will be able to catch the car when the reat tries to over take. The NHC is a City car not meant for the highway. The problem lies in the height of the car coupled with small tyres and poor braking system. Infact Brake rating by ACI and TG is poor. OD gave good?? The car tends to lock at the slighest hint of braking.
It may be good but comparing to the competition the Optra is just miles ahead. The faster you go in a Optra the more stable it feels and thats thanks to Lotus Engineering which build the best handling cars in the world. (Elise)

Quote:
hence, i am not sure in which light to take that figure of 172 ??
And yeah we have to consider maybe OD didnot have the guts to take it further then that, even ACI didnot it seems thats why they said estimated, this car is also tuned to Indian Fuel and for FE reasons it seems this car wont go above 172, maybe something like 180 with speedo error but true speed will be 172.
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Old 12th January 2006, 15:05   #103
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Looks like the NHC Vtec was just a desperate effort to get the Vtec tag, back onto the City.

Why couldn't they just get a limited edition, OHC Vtec. That would have really rocked the C segment......once again.

The prob with the NHC Vtec is that it feels like a small Corolla. Good interiors, plush ride quality and a powerful engine but, without any of the thrills.

Quote:
And For all you OHC Vtec freaks, L.K has prepared a OHC Vtec which has 170bhp @ .55bar boost. Does Wheel Spin like crazy. Can be tuned to 250BHP. 0 - 60 = 3.17secs and it reaches 100 in 6.56 secs. Quarter Mile = 14.85. Hopefully he wishes to extract 250BHP and thats means 0 - 100 in less then 5 secs and Quarter Mile in 11 secs.
Imagine the power to weight. And yes it a Vtec, who said it cant be turbo charged??
WooooHoooo.............!!!!

Shan2nu
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Old 12th January 2006, 16:18   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
There is a differene in estimation and achievement. OD have tested the car and it fails to go over 172kmph ( True Speed Using Vbox.

OD..
Autocar also uses a true speed measuring device which is very accurate. ODs figures are nonsense because the idsi top speed (using V box) is 170+kph. Even a child will tell you that a car with 23 more bhp and a negligible weight difference will definitely be faster..in fact much faster. I agree with you on the stability part (I have started another thread on this subject). I feel the steering is clearly the culprit here combined with the slightly slab sided nature of the design which results in instability in cross winds. Except or the NHC and the Swift, all cars with a top speed above 150kph use Hydraulic PS. EPS does take some getting used to, even the swifts helm is considered slightly vague..the NHC more so. The EPS needs to be improved considerably. Even F1 cars have EPS. We cannot compare the OHC Vtec as the design objectives are totally different. Hondas current objective is "Man maximum, machine minimum".
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Old 12th January 2006, 16:26   #105
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu
Looks like the NHC Vtec was just a desperate effort to get the Vtec tag, back onto the City.

Why couldn't they just get a limited edition, OHC Vtec. That would have really rocked the C segment......once again.

The prob with the NHC Vtec is that it feels like a small Corolla. Good interiors, plush ride quality and a powerful engine but, without any of the thrills.



WooooHoooo.............!!!!

Shan2nu
The NHC Vtec was an after thought. When they launched the NHC in Thailand, its direct competitor was the Toyota Vios which had 100+bhp and people preferred the Vios partly due to its extra power and due to the NHCs quirky looks. Hence the Vtec and the slightly redesigned body.
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