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Old 22nd January 2011, 19:02   #31
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

How much does a Kg of CNG cost? do they increase the price often as they do for petrol & diesel? is it available freely? If so, why is that not all the petrol stations have an CNG pump? what is the capacity for CNG & petrol in WagonR? Is it sufficient to make a long distance travel? can any one clarify?
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Old 23rd January 2011, 00:29   #32
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

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Originally Posted by sathyaprakash View Post
How much does a Kg of CNG cost? do they increase the price often as they do for petrol & diesel? is it available freely? If so, why is that not all the petrol stations have an CNG pump? what is the capacity for CNG & petrol in WagonR? Is it sufficient to make a long distance travel? can any one clarify?
Its 29Rs per KG in New Delhi. 2 years back it was 18.90 per kg if i remember correctly. Price has drastically increased since last year.
No its not so freely available as you need a dedicated CNG underground pipeline.
Usually what I have seen is that the petrol pumps just next to CNG stations have about 2-3 CNG machines.
Cylinder capacity is around 12kg generally, you can opt for bigger cylinder if you get it from outside. You can't fill the cylinder completely I've seen max of just below 10kg in a 12kg cylinder and its good for around 250kms.
Average also varies from kit to kit as these new gen sequential kits providing more than 26km/kg in WagonR's and those old technology kits are around 20 for Alto's.
Hope it cleared most of your doubts.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 09:37   #33
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by panks15 View Post
A detailed and comprehensive cng report. With the rising cost of petrol each month I think it is time to switch to CNG instead and with a running cost of approx 1 Re per km it is cheaper than running an activa today
Correct. And what Maruti provides is excellent performance even on CNG mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saumil_b View Post
1) Great reviews.. I also purchased a WagonR Green about 3 days ago and its a fun to drive car. Not much of a lag driving around the city

2) Another issue i face is the CNG filling. I read about the pressure issues but can we get the pressure changed at the pump or do we have to go to another pump with lower pressure to allow in more gas? On the day i got the delivery i could manage about 7.5 kgs or gas to full. Had to fill in again yesterday. Now that could be irritating! Also, the Maruti guy told me the tank capacity is aboiut 14-16 kgs !! How do we manage that!!
1) Thanks and congrats on a practical buy.

2) As I mentioned earlier ambient temperature, pressure at the pump make a significant difference. Low temperature + high pressure resulted in our waggie taking in 10.X kg which normally wont go ahead of 8.5 kg.

Pressure cannot be modified or anything as such. You have to go to a higher pressure pump for filling in more CNG. The CNG filling takes place with pressure difference to the best of my knowledge. So higher pressure pump are better.

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Originally Posted by yogiii View Post

3) I Agree its very irritating on the pumps with low pressure first you wait in the line 5-10 mins and even then you have to come back the next day!
The waiting is more in NGV dispensers as they are at max 2 at a station as far as I've seen.

I'll tell you what there is this station close to my place, during the day you'll get at max about 160Rs worth gas and at night around 11PM you get around 240-250Rs!
3) Sometimes we have to wait for one hour in queue. Moreover, I have to take car in reverse as the fuel filling in at back next to petrol filling. So as soon as I move forward and try to take reverse, the person behind me often ends up thinking that I am leaving CNG station ( as if I was interested in wasting one hour in queue ) and moves in. This will take a bit of time for people to understand that some cars have CNG filling is at back.

On highways where we fill in, the valve is NGV ( or is it MGV ? ) so very quick filling and for filling in normal cars ( aftermarket kits ), they will fit an adapter in those car's filling point.

Its opposite in city where the nozzle at station is for aftermarket kits and for NGV, they use an adapter so eventually its slow filling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sathyaprakash View Post
How much does a Kg of CNG cost? do they increase the price often as they do for petrol & diesel? is it available freely? If so, why is that not all the petrol stations have an CNG pump? what is the capacity for CNG & petrol in WagonR? Is it sufficient to make a long distance travel? can any one clarify?
Depends on location. We pay Rs. 35.45/kg of CNG in Vadodara at Adani station. Petrol is 35 ltrs. and CNG is 12kg.
Yes, its sufficient to make long distance travel. Approx 260 kms ( if driven sensibly, this can go up and if driven at very high speeds, its 240 kms ) on CNG and then you have 35 ltrs. petrol tank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
Average also varies from kit to kit as these new gen sequential kits providing more than 26km/kg in WagonR's and those old technology kits are around 20 for Alto's.
Are you talking about Toyota CNG cars like Innova and Altis ? Can you elaborate on the above point ?

About Waggie :
I noticed that our Waggie has a fire extinguisher below front left seat! Very nice if this is a part of standard equipment for CNG.

@ saumil_b: Can you confirm if your CNG waggie has the same ?

I will post images asap.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 15:23   #34
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Are you talking about Toyota CNG cars like Innova and Altis ? Can you elaborate on the above point ?
The earlier kits or those aftermarket kits had a single valve in the engine compartment for CNG.
But these new sequential kits in Corolla Altis, Chevrolet Aveo, these iGpi Maruti kits are all sequential kits which have injectors. I'm yet to see them in Maruti cars myself but they are easily visible in Chevrolet Aveo(4 injectors) they are right at the top.
Due to these injectors which behave like MPFI for CNG helps to increase performance and mileage.
Maybe in Maruti 3 cylinder vehicles the number would be 3, a more knowledgeable person would be able to tell.
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Old 24th January 2011, 11:55   #35
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

@Yogiii
Thanks for patiently answering my questions..
I bought a White color WagonR CNG.

Ok, 1 more, in previously retrofitted CNG models, i heard people saying that its good to use petrol on and off for the engine is Made for Petrol and not CNG? Does that hold true?
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Old 24th January 2011, 17:50   #36
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

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Originally Posted by saumil_b View Post
Ok, 1 more, in previously retrofitted CNG models, i heard people saying that its good to use petrol on and off for the engine is Made for Petrol and not CNG? Does that hold true?
AFAIK car is always started on petrol in any kit be it retrofitted or company fitted and it switches automatically to CNG.
While switching off it doesn't make any difference, with various experiments i've done with my car i've noticed many things.
-On idling if the car is running on CNG and you switch it to petrol the engine stalls as the gas gets mixed with petrol and engine is shut off.
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Old 28th January 2011, 16:21   #37
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Alright..
BTW any of you guys have a problem filing gas?? Since the Gas filling point of ours is newer to the pump owners, i've been to a couple of pumps and they are all v scared to start with..
My first filling was a night mare.. i took the delivery of the car and went to the Lotus Petrol Pump, Lokhandwala, Andheri West, Mumbai. Thankfully they had the right nozzle for the filling. Once the attendant connected the pipe and started the gas flow, after about Rs. 80 worth of gas had gone in, there was a HUGE noise and the pipe flew.. I was **** Scared... so was the attendant. He was even scared to connect the pipe back.. At that time, some blue colored ring(picture atttached) flew off to about 15 ft from the car.. Luckily i found it!! The supervisor at the pump told me that this happens with the new cars thanks to the extra pressure in the new tank! Bt this happened with me yesterday again at another pump!!!
Whats the problem??
Isnt anyone else experiencing this??
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Old 28th January 2011, 19:11   #38
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
The earlier kits or those aftermarket kits had a single valve in the engine compartment for CNG.
But these new sequential kits in Corolla Altis, Chevrolet Aveo, these iGpi Maruti kits are all sequential kits which have injectors. I'm yet to see them in Maruti cars myself but they are easily visible in Chevrolet Aveo(4 injectors) they are right at the top.
Due to these injectors which behave like MPFI for CNG helps to increase performance and mileage.
Maybe in Maruti 3 cylinder vehicles the number would be 3, a more knowledgeable person would be able to tell.
Yes, its sequential to the best of my knowledge & different from ordinary aftermarket kits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by saumil_b View Post
@Yogiii
Ok, 1 more, in previously retrofitted CNG models, i heard people saying that its good to use petrol on and off for the engine is Made for Petrol and not CNG? Does that hold true?
Yes, that is recommended plus the MASS also recommends the same. Its normally every 300-400 kms. that one has to drive a bit on petrol that is what MASS ( some person ) told me.

Yet to go through manual though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiii View Post
1) AFAIK car is always started on petrol in any kit be it retrofitted or company fitted and it switches automatically to CNG.

2) While switching off it doesn't make any difference, with various experiments i've done with my car i've noticed many things.
-On idling if the car is running on CNG and you switch it to petrol the engine stalls as the gas gets mixed with petrol and engine is shut off.
1) NO. Its not so in our M800 carb (1992 model ).
Not sure about cars with MPFI.

2) This does not happen in our waggie. The mixture problem is present in our carb M800. Here the stalling problem comes up, but again not sure about cars with MPFI where in later on the CNG kits are installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saumil_b View Post
Alright..
BTW any of you guys have a problem filing gas?? Since the Gas filling point of ours is newer to the pump owners, i've been to a couple of pumps and they are all v scared to start with..
My first filling was a night mare.. i took the delivery of the car and went to the Lotus Petrol Pump, Lokhandwala, Andheri West, Mumbai. Thankfully they had the right nozzle for the filling. Once the attendant connected the pipe and started the gas flow, after about Rs. 80 worth of gas had gone in, there was a HUGE noise and the pipe flew.. I was **** Scared... so was the attendant. He was even scared to connect the pipe back.. At that time, some blue colored ring(picture atttached) flew off to about 15 ft from the car.. Luckily i found it!! The supervisor at the pump told me that this happens with the new cars thanks to the extra pressure in the new tank! Bt this happened with me yesterday again at another pump!!!
Whats the problem??
Isnt anyone else experiencing this??
Well, mostly problem is in the adapter.
CASE 1:
I will try to describe with the best of my knowledge.

There is a pipe to which dispenser ( main nozzle ) is attached. This has to be NGV ( or MGV ? ). So when cars without NGV/MGV comes up, they put in a small adapter ( secondary nozzle ) in which one end will go into the MGV/NGV and other will go into the car's filling point.

CASE 2:
Now, most pumps are not equipped with NGV/MGV as their main nozzle. So they have a rather crude mechanism given the advantage of MGV/NGV.
Here, the main nozzle coming from pipe from station is normal smaller nozzle and to fill in the cars with MGV/NGV, another adapter is used. Here the chances of error are high. There is often leak when the smaller nozzle as main dispenser is attached to the adapter put on MGV/NGV.

If you are filling from station where in they are using adapter as described in Case 2, then there is problem with station.

CASE 3: You are going to station where in the main nozzle coming out from station is MGV/NGV, but still the problem is occuring. If this happens at more than 2-3 stations, then you need to replace the seal. IMO, the blue part you are talking about is in MGV/NGV of car, then either adapter and/or dispenser is wrong and/or you need to take your car to MASS to get the seal replaced.
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Old 28th January 2011, 19:25   #39
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathyaprakash View Post
How much does a Kg of CNG cost? do they increase the price often as they do for petrol & diesel? is it available freely? If so, why is that not all the petrol stations have an CNG pump? what is the capacity for CNG & petrol in WagonR? Is it sufficient to make a long distance travel? can any one clarify?
the price of CNG in delhi is around 29 INR. The price is increased but not that often as in case of petrol. The number of CNG gas stations are less compared to petrol pumps so you have to bear the queue. WagonR has 35 liters of petrol tank capacity and the water filling capacity of CNG tank is 60 liters. according to mileage quoted by maruti(18.9 KMPL for petrol and 26.2 KM/KG) you can definitely make long trips without the tension of refueling.
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Old 28th January 2011, 19:32   #40
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

I enquired in Chennai and they say CNG is not available here but LPG does wagon R here is fitted with LPG logo and not CNG. The cost of LPG here cost 40/kg and all the Autos fitted with the LPG say 1kg of LPG does not give the same amount of KM as 1ltr petrol gives but less than that is it true? why is that CNG is not available in this part of the Country? does a CNG variant runs in LPG also? what is the plus and minus between these two fuel? Is it economical to run in LPG than in petrol?
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Old 28th January 2011, 20:30   #41
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Yes, its sequential to the best of my knowledge & different from ordinary aftermarket kits.
Excellent practical choice , AAG.

I believe the Green Marutis have a separate ECM for the alternate fuel plus a separate set of gas injectors.

There was a thread which even featured pics of the injectors.

I also believe the cylinder head/valve seats are specially done to help endure the -ve effects of prolonged usage on CNG.

Great going AAG.

Needless to mention,one must use the petrol system to consume say Rs.500 every month;that will displace old petrol and keep the system live.
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Old 28th January 2011, 20:43   #42
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

@ aaggoswami
Surprisingly, the 1st time issue happened at a pump with the Direct MGV/NGV Nozzle and to further surprise, the pump with the adaptor based mechanism run by MGL(Mahanagar Gas Ltd.) managed to fill without an issue! The problem i faced yesterday was again at a pump with an adaptor, this time Bharat petroleum..
So so confused..
BTW, yesterday and the 1st time, the Blue ring shot out..
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Old 31st January 2011, 09:21   #43
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by sathyaprakash View Post
I enquired in Chennai and they say CNG is not available here but LPG does wagon R here is fitted with LPG logo and not CNG. The cost of LPG here cost 40/kg and all the Autos fitted with the LPG say 1kg of LPG does not give the same amount of KM as 1ltr petrol gives but less than that is it true? why is that CNG is not available in this part of the Country? does a CNG variant runs in LPG also? what is the plus and minus between these two fuel? Is it economical to run in LPG than in petrol?
Its approximately the same. M800 on LPG can give approx. 16-17, so for around 40-42 rs. you can go 16-17 kms. Compare that with petrol which is around 62 rs. and will go for around 16-18 kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigsom View Post

1) I believe the Green Marutis have a separate ECM for the alternate fuel plus a separate set of gas injectors.

There was a thread which even featured pics of the injectors.

I also believe the cylinder head/valve seats are specially done to help endure the -ve effects of prolonged usage on CNG.

2) Needless to mention,one must use the petrol system to consume say Rs.500 every month;that will displace old petrol and keep the system live.
1) Not sure about ECM, but for injectors, yes. That is most probably the reason why the car is so smooth during changeover. This is true for also for Alto and Eeco CNG as I met a few at MASS.
And also the valve seats are different from petrol only K10B.

2) Something we need to take care of is driving on petrol for a few kms. Now this will be done everytime we fill in CNG. Immediately after CNG filling we will drive car on liquid fuel for around 10 kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saumil_b View Post
@ aaggoswami
Surprisingly, the 1st time issue happened at a pump with the Direct MGV/NGV Nozzle and to further surprise, the pump with the adaptor based mechanism run by MGL(Mahanagar Gas Ltd.) managed to fill without an issue! The problem i faced yesterday was again at a pump with an adaptor, this time Bharat petroleum..
So so confused..
BTW, yesterday and the 1st time, the Blue ring shot out..
Then mostly the problem is with filling station. Try filling at MGL for a few more times, if no problems are coming up, it means that your car is not at fault.

I hope the earlier stations have not damaged the blue part you are talking about. They way the nozzles are put onto the MGV/NGV valve is very rough. Hopefully MGL will not give you any problems for filling. If problem persists then IMO you will have to replace the blue part. But this is not the problem with either CNG system or the CNG pressure in your car.
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Old 31st January 2011, 11:39   #44
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

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Old 14th February 2011, 00:27   #45
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Default re: Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown

Some update.

1) The car has completed 7000 kms. mark.

2) No issue, just as reliable. Suspension never ceases to impress in city.

3) Throttle response has got slightly better. Very nice car and even before I notice, the car would be at around 70 kmph in city. Excellent city car.

4) Braking. Nice and easy to modulate. Super effective and confidence inspiring.

5) This is slightly on negative side. The relative lack of bottom end torque means I have to slip clutch a bit more specially when I am in a traffic jam and even a second's delay means somebody jumping ahead of me. Not good. The only thing that makes me give it 8/10 instead of 9/10 for the car in city driving condition.

6) Very spacious. We had to take around 6 bouquet for the function we had along with two fully filled in college bad + some loose stuff like extra pair of formal clothes. The rear seat was all that we need. We still had just about a bit of room remaining.

7) The car is actually a bit wider than what one thinks while driving. The car would shrink around you, but what I mean is that it makes you feel that the car is narrower, but reality turns out to be something else. Nothing nasty, but I am not used to these high seating cars.

What I miss:
1) Electric ORVM with fold function.
2) Rear power windows.
3) Dead pedal.
4) Tacho.
5) Temp Gauge
6) Wider rubber.

Except 2,4 and 6 available in VXi, the other three are becoming an absolute necessity. I remember commenting that I hate electric fold ORVM as replacement would be expensive, but when I have to drive forcibly through traffic I understand how important they are. Maruti must provide them as accessory.
Dead pedal is a must. The footwell is reasonably wide to accommodate one.
All other positive points mentioned earlier are just like the way they are.

Attaching the images of fire extinguisher which came as standard equipment.

I am also putting up image of the nozzle/adapter that goes into Waggie when the fuel dispenser at fuel station is for filling in normal CNG cars. The time taken is usual stuff as the dispenser is normal and we are not able to take benefit of MGV/NGV ( the benefit is noticeable when the dispenser from fuel station also has MGV/NGV )

@saumil_b : Maruti is not at fault for the ring ( which I believe is seal ) coming out. Its the adapter which messes up things.
Attached Thumbnails
Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown-photo0097.jpg  

Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown-photo0100.jpg  

Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown-photo0102.jpg  

Maruti Wagon R CNG Review, 31,000 kms update and first breakdown-photo0105-copy.jpg  


Last edited by aaggoswami : 14th February 2011 at 00:29.
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