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Old 12th November 2010, 23:55   #1
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Default Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty

Dear friends I had mentioned about our Swift Vdi in the initial ownership report of ANHC. Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty-swift-photo-1a.jpghttp://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...swift-vdi.html (Tale of Two Cityís ( NHC and ANHC ) and a DDiS (Swift Vdi))

Even though the thread was on ANHC I was surprised to note that maximum number of views was for the picture of Swift.
Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty-swift-views-1b.jpg


I know Swift has many fans in this forum but we are facing some serious problems with the car since 19,000 km.The car was purchased in April; 2008.Other than rattles (which has been sorted out) the car didnít have any major problems till last month. The car is in Bangalore for the last one year. It is being used by my brother who is doing PG.

Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty-swift-1cc.jpg

Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty-swift-1dd.jpg

Swift Diesel.Vdi - Ownership report.Facing problems -Maruti refuses to honor warranty-swift-1ee.jpg

Last month the low oil warning lamp appeared at 19,000 km and to our surprise the oil level had decreased to the minimum level. It was very unusual since the 15,000 km service had been done on time. So we thought that the routine oil change might not have been carried out at the MAS centre. There were no signs of oil leak or change of colour of the exhaust. So he took the car to one of the largest MAS centre in Bangalore. There the technicians checked the car for any oil leak or defects. They told that there is no problem with the engine and did a free oil and filter change.

We were careful to regularly check the oil level since the incident. Last week my brother went for a long distance drive with his friends. The odo read 22,000 km.There was no smoke or loss of power. On the way he noticed that the AC cooling was not upto the mark. Soon the low oil warning light appeared and noticed that the engine was over heating. It was found that the oil and the coolant level were low. The car did not start and was towed to the nearest MAS in Hosur (Tamil Nadu).The car could not be repaired there. But we were told that they had seen at least 3 cars (Swift diesel) with similar complaints in Hosur!

Called the Bangalore service centre. They told that since its too far (about 110 km) they cannot send their towing vehicle. So they sent a private vehicle.Had to pay Rs 5000 for the towing. Now they are trying to figure out what has happened.

We are extremely disappointed with the car and the MAS. The MAS should have diagnosed the problem earlier. I talked to one of my patientís relative who worked in the Maruti service for more than 10 years. He says these sort of problems arise due to ignorance of service personnel. He says many Swift diesels had similar problems. Most likely reason may be the overfilling of oil during service. We are lucky that the car is in its extended warranty period. It usually costs about Rs 40,000 + to repair it.

Bhpians please give your expert opinion. Have you faced similar problems? There were few threads before. Some were closed prematurely due to lack of evidence and some were not updated.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ft-diesel.html (Engine problems with swift diesel)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...i-problem.html (Swift VDI problem)



I will update regarding the progress. I may not be able to reply to every query in time since the car is with my brother and due to lack of free time. Hope everything will work out well.
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Old 13th November 2010, 12:27   #2
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I had my oil level fall to middle of dipstick at 14000 when filled to top at 10000.
More can be found here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...km-normal.html and http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post2131664
let us know when your problem resolves
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Old 14th November 2010, 09:35   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goandude View Post
I had my oil level fall to middle of dipstick at 14000 when filled to top at 10000. Let us know when your problem resolves
The car was towed to service centre on friday ((12/11) evening.MASS is waiting for for a senior engineer to do a complete check up and diagnosis.Hopefully something will turn up by monday.Will update on the progress.

Hope nobody is thinking this a thread to defame Swift diesel.

Last edited by Mevtec : 14th November 2010 at 09:38.
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Old 14th November 2010, 22:54   #4
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Please keep us all updated , im sure a lots of DDIS owners will keep an regular eye on this,including me.

And hope they find the root cause of the same instead of giving a talla .

Cheers
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Old 14th November 2010, 23:57   #5
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Oil level low is understandable. But coolant level low means, there is a gasket leakage.
BTW what exactly did they replace?
Is your car running properly now?

You are really lucky for opting extended warranty. It should always be availed.
(Except for skoda where they would not still give you parts and you have to keep running from dealer to dealer and finally to court.)

And dont expect much from MASS. They are OK for regular servicing. But for critical problems go to any reputed workshop.
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Old 15th November 2010, 00:25   #6
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sounds like bad head gasket, but when there is gasket leakage, smoke colour is different (usually whiter) , so not sure exactly
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Old 15th November 2010, 10:39   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
The car was towed to service centre on friday ((12/11) evening.MASS is waiting for for a senior engineer to do a complete check up and diagnosis.Hopefully something will turn up by monday.Will update on the progress.

Hope nobody is thinking this a thread to defame Swift diesel.
Mevtec, sorry to hear about the problems ! My swift VDi has done 42,000 kms [Oct 2008] and I have not faced any such issues as well ! Did you face this issue after giving the car to any particular service center? Where in Bangalore is your car? I give my car in Surakshaa, Bommanahalli and would any day suggest this to anyone ! These guys are awesome ! Would you wanna try giving your car to these guys and check ? And yes, please keep updating this thread so that it helps lots of guys!
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Old 15th November 2010, 11:58   #8
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sorry to hear that ,even i own a swift vdi have clocked around 48000 have not faced anything like nor heard, my car is regularly serviced by mandovi mysore and they do a fantastic job .keep the thread updated after the engineers have detailed look and make a point to have a visit while the engineers are around .
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Old 15th November 2010, 12:52   #9
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Sorry to hear this. Was there any traces of oil in the coolant? Or it was just low?

Coolant might have leaked out when the engine overheated, so that really might not be the problem if the above is point is cleared.

Check intercooler, if it has major traces of oil. Then the issue is with the Turbo and its leaking oil seal. Its normal to have some minor traces of oil, but intercooler should not be soaking wet with oil.

Do keep us updated.
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Old 15th November 2010, 20:25   #10
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Default Update (15-11-2010)

Thank you all for the support.The car is still admitted without a proper diagnosis.The investigations are going on.

The senior engineer arrived at Bimal motors Bangalore today.Checked the car and called my brother today evening. He came with the email sent to Maruti.Before incident occurred the car was inspected for any oil leak at the same MAS at 19,000 km.But they did not take a job card for the same! We had mentioned that in the letter.The senior engineer clarified regarding the issue.

The Senior engineer did not say any diagnosis till now. But his most important concern was that he drained about 5 litre oil from the engine and where did the 5 L come from! We told that the oil was filled after the incident from local workshop. Donít know whether they will blame the incident on that!

Things learned till now.
1, Friends remember to get job cards for every repair or checking.
2, Everyone with DDiS get an extended warranty.
3, Be very careful with oil change. If you can monitor the process do it.
4, When your engine seizes never try to fill any thing from local workshop they might try to put the blame on it.
5, Never buy a Maruti for the sake of good service? Too early to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Where in Bangalore is your car? I give my car in Surakshaa, Bommanahalli and would any day suggest this to anyone ! Please keep updating this thread so that it helps lots of guys!
Thank you.The car is being service at Bimal motors,Bangalore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nithz View Post
sorry to hear that.Keep the thread updated after the engineers have detailed look and make a point to have a visit while the engineers are around
Thank you.My brother was not able to meet the senior engineer.But talked to him over the phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
sounds like bad head gasket, but when there is gasket leakage, smoke colour is different (usually whiter) , so not sure exactly
Didn't notice white smoke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Oil level low is understandable. But coolant level low means, there is a gasket leakage.BTW what exactly did they replace?
Is your car running properly now?

You are really lucky for opting extended warranty.
Most probably there is a gasket leakage.MAS have not said this till now.What all damage has happed along with it we don't know.Lucky to be in the extended warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoudhury View Post
Please keep us all updated , im sure a lots of DDIS owners will keep an regular eye on this,including me.
Thank you.Will keep updating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Sorry to hear this. Was there any traces of oil in the coolant? Or it was just low?

Coolant might have leaked out when the engine overheated, so that really might not be the problem if the above is point is cleared.
Thank you for the prompt reply.When the car showed low oil warning and overheated there was almost no oil and coolant was almost dry. So it was not possible to check whether there was oil in the coolant. The car was shut down to fill the oil and coolant. After that the car never started .Engine is cranking the car is not starting.
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Old 15th November 2010, 21:17   #11
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Let me tell my case so far:
1. First servicing was done at 1445 km with replace of engine oil
2. Second servicing was completed at 5137 km with out oil change
3. Third servicing was done at 10238 km with engine oil and filter change

During a regular check up at home (~ 14400 km) found the oil level is below the minimum mark in the dip stick. Actually there was no sign of oil in the dip stick. Rushed to MASS (Vitesse, Prabhadevi). The SA poured ~ 500 ml of oil, the level came up to the bottom most part of the dip stick. Somehow I was worried about the actual oil level in the engine, went for a oil change at MASS (Chetan Motors, Navi Mumbai) at 14629. They drained the earlier oil (visually the volume was less than 2.5 lits), topped up with 3.1 lit Mobil Delvac and oil filter. On a flat surface the oil level was at the top mark of the dip stick. The car has been checked throughly for any leakage, nothing spotted.

4. After 15881 km, I again checked the oil level it was showing one mm less than the upper mark in the dip stick.

5. After 16300 km (i.e., after oil change the car has done 1617 km) I've checked the oil level, now I can see the oil level is 3 mm below the upper limit.

So far I'm getting FE of 19.8 kmpl (avg), there is no leakage. I have a ScanGauge II fitted, I've monitored the boost, at 2000 rpm car is giving proper boost thus, turbo is working fine, no black smoke.

I do not know where the oil is going? I spoke to Chetan Motors (A category MASS (where I changed the oil) they said may be the oil is going to turbo and recommened to talk to Vitesse (Dealer Workshop). I spoke to my SA at Vitesse and he is telling this is normal. I'm sure in another 1500 km the oil level will come down further to the minimum level.

I'm closely monitoring Mevtec's case and monitoring the level every morning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
The Senior engineer did not say any diagnosis till now. But his most important concern was that he drained about 5 litre oil from the engine and where did the 5 L come from! We told that the oil was filled after the incident from local workshop. Don’t know whether they will blame the incident on that!
I'm not surprised to hear about 5 lit engine oil. I came to know another case from Chetan Motors about a blockage in some of the internal channel of engine block and in tubing where almost 2 lits of engine oil got concealed in Swift DDiS engine.

I'm suspecting something like this in my car too. Within one or two days I'll write to Maruti.

Recommend all the DDiS car owner to regularly monitor engine oil level.

Mevtec keep us posted with the updates.

Last edited by gaddiwale : 15th November 2010 at 21:19.
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Old 15th November 2010, 23:42   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post
I came to know another case from Chetan Motors about a blockage in some of the internal channel of engine block and in tubing where almost 2 lits of engine oil got concealed in Swift DDiS engine.
This may be a probable cause and the oil will be stuck in the head.
But I dont think this is the case. If so then why there is change in coolant level?
Oil and coolant have separate circuits and galleries. Now it is highly improbable that both are clogged at the same time.

1) 5 lt of oil was there in the engine implies oil was not leaking into the cylinders. Hence no white smoke.
2) Did you personally check the oil lvl?
3) Did you check the oil lvl when the engine was in hot & cold condition.
4) What was the amount of coolant drained?
5) Was there any oil in coolant or coolant in oil?
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Old 16th November 2010, 10:21   #13
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Default Don't touch the Head Gasket

There is a problem with quite a few DDIS- which Maruti has not yet publicly accepted--- some of the MASS agents now know of this problem.

Basically there is a defect with the oil cooler-- many including mine have seen this failure between around 20- 30 k.

The oil basically is sinking into the Coolent.

Unfortunately evrybody-- including the Mass agents automatically assume it is head gasket failure. I've come across one poor chap in Jamshedpur who ended up having his engine opened up by mass who then promptly destroyed it- since they don't ever properly follow the technical manual.

Anyway-- open the coolent reservoir cap you will see instead of coolent a grey or black grungy mess--- thats your oil.

There is only one solution which is to replace the oil cooler-- unfortunately maruti only supplies this as a unit together with the oil body and a new filter etc... Parts cost is around 5000 rs.
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Old 16th November 2010, 23:35   #14
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Default Update (16-11-2010)

Hi friends,
my brother called the regional service manager.He says since the engine is cranking there wont any serious problem! Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this moment.He has send the FIR to Maruti today.Still no diagnosis.They are planning to do some more investigations tomorrow to find the real problem.Oh! this is a really complex engine.

If it was a patient I would have advised referral to a higher centre.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post
During a regular check up at home (~ 14400 km) found the oil level is below the minimum mark in the dip stick.

After 15881 km, I again checked the oil level it was showing one mm less than the upper mark in the dip stick.

5. After 16300 km (i.e., after oil change the car has done 1617 km) I've checked the oil level, now I can see the oil level is 3 mm below the upper limit.

Recommend all the DDiS car owner to regularly monitor engine oil level
Hi gaddiwale it seems your car is ok.I think we cannot judge the oil level by mm change in the dip stick.Engine oil level should be monitored regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
T
2) Did you personally check the oil lvl?
3) Did you check the oil lvl when the engine was in hot & cold condition.
4) What was the amount of coolant drained?
5) Was there any oil in coolant or coolant in oil?
Hi thank you for the support.The car is used by brother.Oil level was measured by the service engineer from Maruti.He drained it from the engine.Coolant was almost nil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kulvinder singh View Post
There is a problem with quite a few DDIS- which Maruti has not yet publicly accepted.Some of the MASS agents now know of this problem.Basically there is a defect with the oil cooler-- many including mine have seen this failure between around 20- 30 k.The oil basically is sinking into the Coolant.

Unfortunately everybody-- including the Mass agents automatically assume it is head gasket failure. I've come across one poor chap in Jamshedpur who ended up having his engine opened up by mass who then promptly destroyed it- since they don't ever properly follow the technical manual.
Thank you Kulvinder for the support.This is a new information.How is your car now? How can Maruti ignore it? What about the similar engine in TATA and FIAT cars? Is it an improved version? Otherwise TASS would have blown up few turbos and gaskets by now.

MASS dosen't know to open the engine!One of my friends who had been in Honda service says most of them don't know how to overhaul the engine.They rarely do it.The most run Honda engine in TVM is said to be about 3,00,000 km.It didn't need a overhaul till now.

Last edited by Mevtec : 16th November 2010 at 23:39.
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Old 16th November 2010, 23:52   #15
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Take the VDi to Cochin. There's an expert with Indus or so. Will get the details later( I think I have posted the info somewhere in here)

And dont be so happy with the Honda guys

1) have heard of petrol stealing
2) claiming insurance after they break your windscreen while you had given your car for service.
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