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Old 30th November 2010, 17:03   #1
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Default TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

Its been almost four weeks since Dhanteras, the set of wheels did their first 1000 kms within the first week, and am pushing them to the 1800's now. And yeah, after being a silent visitor in the forum for about 4 years, it is only now that i consider myself fit for any contributions.

Thanks a million to all the team bhpians, who have helped me to no ends in making easier the choice of my first car.

Background - Was the kind of guy who would rather whistle at a car, than on a girl and have been following the automobile scene with quite some interest. My price range was between 7 to 8.5 L. So the only option were to wait for either the Linea or the SX4 to come out with a 1.6 D. (Was not a fan of Verna looks, and Fiesta - I somehow never wanted it, still not able to find out why!) Petrols were out. Tjet was just an echo. And then, on the horizon, appeared the Vento.

Round 1 - The Vento Test Drive (August 2010)

Read the test drives by GTO. Made prior appointments with the Navi Mumbai VW dealer. On the first week of display itself, went for a test drive and came out with a big grin. The dash was placed a little too high for my comfort, and the interiors were, a little dull. The exteriors were liveable, though i liked the clear aggression of the city or the "donno-what-it-is-but-it-works-damn-good" look of the linea. Yeah, i know, i know, that one is supposed to fall for the understated elegance looks and all. But still. Ahem!

After all discounts, my on road price for the Highline TDI was about 10.1 L. Since i was particular about having ABS & airbags, i had no other option but to go for the highline.

Linea D - Had a test drive of Linea Diesel. The way the car dealt with bad stretched were impressive, and after all discounts the on-road price was coming to 8.53 L.

City - Realised i was ready to pay 10.1 L for Vento TDI, so might as well check out the City. The car felt easy to be with, the cabin was spacious, and the S version was coming to 9.33 L on road after discounts.

Round 1 winner - Even though the lack of a middle variant pushed up my budget to 10.1 L, i was still ready to shell out that premium over a Linea (Reasons - Lack of power, Brand, Quality & Service.), & the City (Reason - Petrol). Took some time for the fact to sink in that am paying more than the City also!

The dealer told that the booking period is now 5 months. Also, started seeing posts in t-bhp about people having booked in July still struggling to get their cars. The Vento sales figures were below 2000 every month, and a five month waiting period means just about 10000 cars (assumption). Personally i do not think this is a huge number, given that Honda churns out 4000 city's every month. Imagine this, Honda would have met this pipeline in 2 months time (they have done 6000 units also in september 2010 i guess).

For a guy who has already got one car, waiting would not be a concern. But for someone who doesn't have one, its tough

Round 2 - Jet Set Go!

Was amused at Sidindica's first impression, was positively surprised after GTOs test drive, and got fully floored after the test drive. Its just awesome!. Touched 140 in no time. The stability and ride was too good to be true. There were three small speedbreakers at the end of a long stretch, which the tjet dismissed as rumblers. Suddenly the concrete joints and small humps in the road disappeared and all i could see was smooth tarmac. Amazing experience.

Tjet plus was coming to 9.91 L on the road after the corporate discount. Realised it was a petrol touching Vento TDI territory in terms of pricing. In order to bring some sanity back to budget, realised i can opt only for the normal Tjet which comes at 9.43 L on the road.

To have a comparison, test drove the City again. The City felt like a Maruti 800. Well, what i meant is - its barebone, easy to handle, you feel (Not necessarily touch - you hear a lot of tyre noise) every bump/irregularity in the road, you are faster in the traffic cause you can guess the dimensions better, and its simple.

On the other hand, the Linea just isolates you from everything else. And can probably sing you a lullaby or two while cruising at 100+ speeds.

Round 3 - The Mental Games

So, it was the best petrol sedan (Linea T Jet - 9.43 L) Vs the best diesel sedan (Vento TDI - 10.1 L). However, the Tjet mileage figures given by GTO was slightly worrisome. Would it really go down to 8.xx on enthusiastic driving? and having driven the car, i knew it would be difficult to keep a light foot on the accelarator.

The Vento had already raised my initial budget, and i was afraid the tjet would take the baton on and just sprint away with my monthly savings! I am single yet, and GTOs suggestion of "taking wife to one dinner less" was also not gonna work! Too risky a strategy till you have locked in the asset.

And the City S version is actually cheaper at 9.33 L. Yeah, agreed there is only one accessory in the car which Honda felt would cost them the least - space. Wherever you look- inside the cabin, in the luggage compartment, and even in the engine bay - all you see is vacant space!

Round 4 - The Excel sheets - Lifecycle costs?

Decided to calculate the overall lifecycle cost of ownership. Generally it should consist of a) Cost of Acquisition, b) Fuel Cost over 5 yrs (Since this would be the time period i would most probably keep the car), c) Maintenance Cost & d) Resale Value after 5 yrs.



a) Cost of Acquisition -
Vento TDI - 10.10 L
Linea T Jet - 9.43 L
City S - 9.33 L
b) Fuel Cost - Monthly running of 1500 km - City 900 (Confirmed), Highway - 600 (Probable)


Mileage Assumption (From general sources)
Vento TDI - City 14, Highway 20, Monthly - Rs 4000, 5 Yrs - 2.43 L
Linea T Jet - City 10, Highway 16, Monthly - Rs 7100, 5 Yrs - 4.28 L
City - City 12, Highway 19, Monthly - Rs 5900, 5 Yrs - 3.58 L
c) Maintenance Cost - Was confused as to how to go about this. Was hearing good things about VW, however, am not sure if they would go the Skoda way. Linea - Team Bhpians swear by the low cost of maintenance, and an equal number of hassle free ownership experience for the City. Would not like to put any number to it, even though i feel even if i put some numbers, the implication would be negative for VW, and neutral for Linea/City.

d) Resale - How much any product would fetch 5 yrs down the line is anybodys guess. Still i guess the Diesel Vento, would fetch the same price as a reliable Honda. Allowing for some of its past baggage, i am tempted to reduce resale of Linea by 50K, compared to the other two. So, for the sake of numbers, thought i would put 5 L each for Vento/City, and 4.5 L for Linea.

The final tally looks like this = Acquisition Cost + Running Cost + Maintenance Cost - Resale Value

Vento TDI - 10.1 + 2.43 - 5 = 7.53 L, Over 5 yrs
Linea Tjet - 9.43 + 4.28 - 4.5 = 9.21 L
City S - 9.33 + 3.58 - 5 = 7.91 L

Hmmm, so the Vento is the cheapest, and with its resale & mileage, the City almost makes up. T jet is slightly more expensive, but if it proves fuel efficient, it would completely turn the tables. In retrospect, i realise that is the only point, apart from the quality niggles that the Tjet has to prove. But then, its only 1.6 L spread over 5 yrs, versus the Vento, which boils down to just about Rs 2600/month. Not a big price for what you get.

Round 5 - The Closing Act!

Before i take the final decision, wanted to move my papers forward in the office, so that all my clearances are through for the purchase of the car. Contacted the colleague who handles the corporate purchases, and enquired with him. The following were the opinions;

Vento - Our company has already booked 11 Vento's. Long waiting period, but promised me delivery in 4 months. No additional discounts, 10.7 L incl. corporate road taxes.
Linea tjet - He was not aware of Tjet. However, asked for the quotes. 10.03L incl. corporate road taxes.
City S - Our company orders about 5-10 City's every month, and so we do get better discounts from Honda. 9.6 L including corporate road tax.

Started the process on 28th of October. Got all internal clearances by 29th afternoon. Finalised the colour and got delivery on 3rd of November!

Delivery experience was not really good, since the dealer must have thought the guy with laptop bag and sneakers might be just another employee who came to pick up the car for someone else.

Aftermath

Every single morning has been beautiful ever since. I walk up to my car, check for scratches (sigh, new car), get in, crank the engine, adjust the channel/volume from the steering and drive off.

After the first traffic, there is a long stretch, which ends in three small speed breakers which the tjet earlier dismissed as rumblers (during the test drive). I slow down, go through each of them, think of the tjet, rev my variable cams and listen to their sound, smile and drive off.

- Pics, Ownership experience, First Service update to follow.
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Old 30th November 2010, 18:17   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skuz View Post





Mileage Assumption (From general sources)
Vento TDI - City 14, Highway 20, Monthly - Rs 4000, 5 Yrs - 2.43 L
Linea T Jet - City 10, Highway 16, Monthly - Rs 7100, 5 Yrs - 4.28 L
City - City 12, Highway 19, Monthly - Rs 5900, 5 Yrs - 3.58 L
- Pics, Ownership experience, First Service update to follow.
Congrats. City is indeed a good choice.

But a quick question on these mileage assumptions. I was thinking in these lines..

City - City:11, Highway-15 to 16km/lt
T-Jet - City:10 to 10.5, Highway-14 to 15km/lt

My Linea Diesel was giving me 19-20km/lt on Highways on cruising at 120. I think 12 and 19 for H City seems little out of the way... Pls correct me if i am wrong... Also pls post the actual mileage figures you are getting.

PICS awaited. Enjoy the ride mate!

Sathya

PS: My petrol swift never gave me more than 16-17 on Highways and 11-12 in City... the Old 1.3l engine.

Last edited by Sathya_sc : 30th November 2010 at 18:20.
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Old 30th November 2010, 21:00   #3
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Thank you Sathya.

I havent got a bifurcated mileage reading as yet, but it goes like the following;

After the first full tank near the dealership, the following are the values
1st Refill - 32.24 Litres - 451 Kms - 13.98 Km/Litre (Half city, Half Highway)
2nd Refill - 32.81 Litres - 527 Kms - 16.06 Km/Litre (Half City, Half Highway)
3rd Refill - 38.86 litres - 503 Kms - 12.94 Km/Litre (Full city + first service + am flooring it now )

These are the tankfull figures, and the MID variations have been within 0.5 to 1.0 Km/litre on the higher side. And to add to that, Navi Mumbai roads are a breeze to drive, not the typical city roads one would encounter.

So i guess the city figures of 12 might hold. Highway not sure. If you notice, all the mileage figures for all the cars are very optimistic - trying to see a lower monthly outgoing for myself there

GTO had put 13 as the highway mileage for tjet, however, ownerships reviews have been showing better figures.

Will soon put up the pics..

Last edited by Technocrat : 1st December 2010 at 00:25. Reason: Please avoid quoting posts if you are mere replying to it & if its on same page, thanks
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Old 30th November 2010, 22:18   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skuz View Post

The final tally looks like this = Acquisition Cost + Running Cost + Maintenance Cost - Resale Value

Vento TDI - 10.1 + 2.43 - 5 = 7.53 L, Over 5 yrs
Linea Tjet - 9.43 + 4.28 - 4.5 = 9.21 L
City S - 9.33 + 3.58 - 5 = 7.91 L
Congratulations Skuz on your new car, Honda is indeed a very good proposition,
I do not completely agree with your final tally. See without calculations the vento will be costliest as it's service cost will be high as vis a vis other two. Some parts are expected to be thru the roof god forbid if needed. ANHC will be cheapest with best resale value after five years and low service cost and Linea although with a low ownership but poor resale will make in come in between but T jet just might be the next OHC vtec in waiting meaning the resales might be superb

Anyways looking forward to pictures and detailed ownership report
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Old 1st December 2010, 10:21   #5
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skuz, I am confused after reading your post. Did you actually buy a T-jet or ANHC? The way you are comparing GTO's T-jet mileage figures makes me think you finally bought a T-jet. But Sathya and drsnt have started congratulating you for buying a ANHC. Can you clarify. The suspense is killing
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Old 1st December 2010, 10:32   #6
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Question

Same here, its totally unclear which car was finalized and what colour. In the first post its said petrol was out, then why was Honda city considered, just for analysis purposes? Was the vehicle brought on co registration or individual? Skuz would request you to clear the fog please.
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Old 1st December 2010, 11:05   #7
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Sorry for keeping the fog on guys. ANHC is the favourite punching bag of the junta, and i had mentioned variable cams towards the end.

Petrols were initially out, but the price & waiting period of the Vento pushed me out eventually. I bought the ANHC through company registration, and got a good discount (Vs the Tjet)

The colour is Polished Metal Metallic. Pics attached below, sorry for the image quality as they were taken from my phone. And yeah, i know i should not have been there on the last pic
Attached Thumbnails
TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)-20101106_13.52.48-rs.jpg  

TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)-20101105_11.21.33-rs.jpg  

TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)-20101106_13.53.58-rs.jpg  

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Old 1st December 2010, 12:27   #8
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Hi Skuz,

Congratulations on new acquisition.

Seeing from mileage details, driving style over speed breakers and delivery time, you seem to have taken delivery of ANHC.

Please post pics and your initial owenership expereince.

Coming to ANHC mileage, I am consistently getting between 12.5 to 13 Kmpl in city and highway mileage (two trips so far) is around 17.5 to 18 Kmpl.

ANHC mileage to a great extent depends upon driving style. With a light foot on accelerator, you can extract around 14 to 15 kmpl in city also.
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Old 5th January 2011, 17:53   #9
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Default 3000 Km Update :)

Its been two months since the purchase, and i covered about 3000 Kms with the car. And a Happy new year to all fellow bhpians.

A Brief Update

Accessories/Others -
Sunfilm -
Make - 3M CR 70 on front, and RE50 on sides.
Cost - Rs 9000/-
Place - Vashi, Sector 17.
Service feedback - Excellent. No issues, no bubbles, no spots etc till now. Got the number of the operator from 3M Bangalore.

Underbody coating and Carlac polish done from the dealer as part of offer.

Jopasu Duster, Microfibre towel (gave to the car cleaning boy). But i guess the damage has been done with swirl marks all across.

Thinking of seat covers and wheel upgrades. But i just keep postponing it.

Mileage
- With 100% AC in Moderate Traffic in City is hovering around 13.1 Km/L. (MID Reading 13.7)
- Last month with the winter chill in Mumbai, the MID is showing 14.7 Km/L. (Havent done tankful for the last 1000 kms, so the MID is for the last 1000 kms)

Ride
- Very hard in slow speeds. One would feel every jolt at speeds below 40 Km/hr.
- Above 40 km/hr, even though the jolts still make it through, all undulations are taken care of in a very mature manner. Have noticed that in roads with uneven patch works others would slow down and i speed up. As Saif says in DCH "either dosti gahari hai, nahin to picture 3D hai" - either the ride is good, or i am just another hard nut abusing the suspension.
- Havent done much corners/bad roads in high speeds. So no clue yet regarding the ride at high speeds.

Handling
- not much opportunities to push the car to see the limits.

Speeds
- Did 160 once, 150 2-3 times, 120-130 coupla times. Like the way the car picks up speed.
- Found myself reducing the stereo sound to hear the engine roar every time i revved it up. Can we have a negative Speed sensitive volume control please?

Space - I think Honda found out whats the feature they can provide with minimum costs. and voila, they found out its space. Everywhere, in ample - be it the passenger cabin, boot, and wait, even in the engine bay.

Other
- Am tired with the noises in the car.
1) The sound which the plastic cover on the sunvisor makes when it touches against the roof. (yeah.yet to remove it.lazy me. strangely noticed that half my friends who have 3-4 yr old cars are also yet to remove it!)
2) Sound of any coin/usb cover on any of the cubby holes
3) There is a small rumble from the door pad when i turn up the volume/bass of the music.
Hehe. i know i am nitpicking, still. Point being, except for the road noise the car is super silent, and i adore it. Welcome change from the Swifts i am used to!

- But yeah, drove my friends Figo from Bangalore to trichur & back, each trip in about 7 hours. Initially i found the steering too heavy, the engine too noisy, low end pulling pretty bad, gearshift a little rubbery. But it was a stonker on the highway, and i loved the features packed into it.
Honda - why isnt there a remote boot opener?, or a CD, or a bluetooth, lane change indicator etc.

Summing up - Whenever i crank it up, the engine never misses a beat and i have never even thought there would be any issues. I dont know if its stupid of me, but have not opened the engine bay till now after purchase!. Has been a breeze to drive in the city. Luckily no underbody scratches till now.

Looking forward - Thinking of a lonnng drive back home to kerala in the car, to Kollam/Quilon to be exact. Have not fixed the date yet, depends on whether i run the mumbai marathon or not.

Planning to take Mumbai - Pune - Bangalore - Salem - Kochi/Madurai - Kollam. The distance to one side would be about 1600 kms, and i guess once i reach Kerala will get the second service done in Kerala only.

Things in my mind
- Should i really do this before the first oil change?. As of now, i guess i know the answer.
- The lights - Would the stock lights be sufficient or should i buy the Philips Xtreme?. Where do i get the Xtremes in Mumbai/Navi Mumbai?
- How do i bypass bangalore? Would reach bangalore sometime by 3-4 AM. Should i take the Salem route or the Mysore-Sathy-Coimbatore route from bangalore?
- Which service centre in tvm/kochi should i take the car for the second service?
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Old 5th January 2011, 19:00   #10
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Default re: TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

If you had a choice where in Vento Diesel was available( short wait period) similar to ANHC, would you still go with ANHC or Vento?
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Old 5th January 2011, 20:58   #11
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Default re: TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

Congrats for acquiring the City. Its certainly a no nonsense buy. Wishing you loads of happy miles with it.
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Old 5th January 2011, 22:01   #12
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Default re: TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

Hey! Welcome to TBHP and congratulations on the ANHC. That colour is a stunner. My all time favourite for any car really.
And thats once nice long trip you've planned. Do post your experiences, tips and yes MORE PICTURES after you complete it.

Do keep the updates coming. Wishing you unlimited happy and safe miles with your iVTEC.

Cheers.
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Old 6th January 2011, 07:54   #13
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Red face Re: 3000 Km Update :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skuz View Post
Honda - why isnt there a remote boot opener?, or a CD, or a bluetooth, lane change indicator etc.
Did you mean the turn indicator? ANHC does not have one? Or was it something else you desired for?
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Old 6th January 2011, 10:52   #14
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Default Re: TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

Congratulations and welcome to ANHC club.

I normally get 13KMPL in City and 17KMPL on highways (I like to rip on highways) else Iam sure we can extract much more. As RAM mentioned, FE of ANHC is dependent on driving style. But what's fun in having light foot on IVTEC.

But in my case I allways saw a delta of 1.5 to 2KM from the Reading when compared to Tank-full-Tank full.

Drive safe and have fun.

Cheers
Raghu
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Old 6th January 2011, 11:58   #15
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Default Re: TDI/Tjet/Vtec- And ending up with the punching bag! (Honda City S)

Thank you Ram, Raghu, Reinhard & Utopian.

Raghu - 17 KMPL in highways when you are ripping it is not at all a bad one!. And yeah, city drives with AC on i guess 13 KMPL is the standard mileage, at least in moderate city traffic (Navi Mumbai). Am looking forward to my highway run to see the exact figures.

Ghodlur - I guess it might not be called a lane change indicator. Figo has this system wherein the indicator blinks for 2-3 times and then shuts off. One need not pull the indicator stick back or wait for the steering turn to be completed for it to automatically switch off. Is excellent when one does lane change/overtake. Its another matter that more often i ended up operating the rear wiper!

Vcx - I would drool over the city every time i see one, but i would go for the Vento Diesel , simply for the sheer value. Actually, if i am in the market now and in no hurry, i would book the vento diesel, and wait out the waiting period of 4-5 months happily, keeping my eyes and ears open for the ownership reviews. In another 4-5 months i guess we will get an exact idea of Volkswagen service, and the new car issues with Vento, if any. Plus, you have the new fiesta also coming up!
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