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Old 9th March 2012, 23:27   #1876
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Day 21
1st September 2011
Key Long - Sach Pass - Chamba

The roads ahead
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We reached Tindi by 11:00AM

Welcome to Tindi
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Well deserved break!
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Tindi Doggie
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continued...

Over to HVK for the next episode.
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Old 9th March 2012, 23:47   #1877
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

I think Lalu has shot enough doggy photos to publish a full album of the "All about Lovable Doggies of the Greater Himalayan region"

Now I guess you realise why the 25 kms from Udeypur to Tindi took over 2 hours of driving!

And also why Lalu got so many breaks & opportunities to take all those expressive photos, thanks to the slowdown by the Swifts struggling on the tough mountain terrain.

The Scorpio & the Bolero were wonderful in this sector with what someone termed their lower-end grunt, crunching through all the rocky slopes & gushing water streams without breaking into a sweat & taking it quite easy without even revving their engines, I guess that is the power of diesel.

It was quite a relief to reach Tindi for that break!
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Old 10th March 2012, 00:03   #1878
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)



Having lost momentum when it plunged into the deep swirling waters, the Swift simply did not have the oomph to clamber up the steep slope which was not only slushy but also rocky.

KSM-vTEC, your expert comments please - on what was running on your mind - and driving technique - in the steep stony slope and this water crossing?
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Old 10th March 2012, 00:12   #1879
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

I think I know the reason behind the doggy snaps. I have been there too and know the feeling.

BTW, HVK the above snap of yours and a 'clean' looking BolBolero is for keeps.

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I think Lalu has shot enough doggy photos to publish a full album of the "All about Lovable Doggies of the Greater Himalayan region"
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Old 10th March 2012, 09:10   #1880
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

HVK Scorpio
Aug 12, Bombay-Behror, 1402 kms
Aug 13, Behror-Rampur, 692 kms
Aug 14, Rampur-Chitkul, 144 kms
Aug 15, Chitkul-Pooh, 207 kms
Aug 16, Pooh-Kaza, 178 kms
Aug 17-19, Kaza, 291 kms
Aug 20, Kaza-Jispa, 236 kms
Aug 21, Jispa-Leh, 374 kms
Aug 22, Leh-Kargil, 343 kms
Aug 23, Kargil-Padum, 248 kms
Aug 24, Padum-Kargil, 275 kms
Aug 25, Kargil-Leh, 259 kms
Aug 26, Leh, 148 kms
Aug 27, 2011, Leh-Turtuk, 241 kms
Aug 28, 2011, Leh-Pangong Tso, 445 kms
Aug 29, 2011, Pangong-Hanle, 203 kms
Aug 30, 2011, Hanle-Tso Moriri, 188 kms
Aug 31, 2011, Tso Moriri-Keylong, 375 kms


Sep 1, 2011, Keylong-Chamba, 341 kms

Quote:
Gautam says,

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Having crossed the town/ village of Udeypur, the roads were almost nonexistent. Not that it presented too much of a problem for HVK's Scorpio, who seemed to be flying over the broken roads! The Swifts were taking it a bit easy and were treading very carefully. The Bolero was bringing up the rear, just in case.
There were several water crossings, each of them throwing the gauntlet at the Swifts......but the Mumbai Roadsters were made of different mettle.

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This was one steep slope which made the Swifts look very silly. The slope was steep. There was a rivulet flowing down. Slope all tumbling when the tyres bit into the gravel. Try as we might, the Swift tyres could not get traction & kept sliding back again & again. We had to realign some of the stones. We had to punch a path to the left side. No one in the car other than the driver. Wary of clutch burn. Again & again, the Swifts struggled and somehow at the last pull of the muscles, it completed the climb.




Quote:
Gautam says,

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This was a particularly bad climb, with water flowing downwards and the road full off jagged rocks. The Scorpio and the Bolero managed to climb and cross the road with relative ease, the low end torque proving useful once again, and helped in no small measure by the good ground clearance both the vehicles had.
It was altogether another story for the two Swifts. Yogen's Swift with the low profile tires was having a very hard time trying to gain traction on the loose rocks and the flowing water. After many tries the Swift finally managed to make it to the top. Anku's Swift fared slightly better, due to the fact that it was on "Stock Tires" as Anku kept reminding all and sundry!

We had to do a lot of waiting as we pulled each car through each of the obstacles.


Quote:
Gautam
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After a few water crossings, it was decided that the Scorpio and Bolero would move ahead of the Swifts and wait for the Swifts to catch up at the next obstacle/water crossing. Sure enough at the next water crossing, Anku's Swift was bogged down and had to be towed out by the Bolero.

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This countryside does not see small cars – the only vehicles are the omnipresent Bolero pick-ups & the stray HPSRTC bus. IN between, a couple of Mahindra Maxxes with passengers from Khillar bound for Keylong passed by. They were all rather surprised to see our convoy, these parts do not see any outsiders pretending to be tourists like us!

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Quote:
Kaushik says,

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Since the road is used only by the Mahendra pickups, busses and similar large vehicles and it is strictly a single lane, the tyre tracks are more suitable for a vehicle with a high ground clearance and a wide track chassis/body. Since its only a single lane the centre of the road has remained untouched, high and uncompressed and with regular use only by the bigger vehicles the tyre tracks are wider than what a swift can run on. Even if you try your luck it will not be possible to run on the existing tyre tracks for too long because the under body of a small car is too low and the centre of the road keeps hitting it more than 50% of the distance. So the only option is to put one tyre on the side and the other somewhere higher up on the centre of the road. Again the centre of the road is not solid and has loose sharp stones so going fast even with this technique is not possible. Only advantage is you endup saving your underbody/oil sump etc at the cost of risking your tyres.
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The distance between the SUVs & the Swifts was widening and our head creases sharpening. I was thinking, if these Swifts are struggling on such "easy" transport terrain, what is going to happen when the real "rally" terrain begins after Khillar? I was becoming more & more skeptical about their chances of getting to Chamba.

Quote:
Kaushik says

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So yes we had a taste of how bad it can get in the not so bad sections. You can be careful and save your car from being damaged but in the bargain you end up loosing time which can be a very valuable resource in the hills. The later you travel in the day the higher is the water level on each water crossing, visibility is an issue, getting help becomes difficult and even the locals are not available to provide any basic information that you may need. As we moved ahead various rocky and narrow sections came our way and we were forced to slow down to a very snail slow pace. We could not see the Scorpio and Bolero even on the next hill.
We eventually reached Tindi, earlier the “end of the road”. Couple of tea shops & some villagers waiting for a lift to their next destination, the place looked very lazy. I called a halt – tea break, one never knows when the next one will be. We got lot more – parathas too, all in a jiffy, everyone was hungry & anxious to reinforce themselves for a long day ahead.

The gap between the SUVs & the Swifts had widened, and it was quite some time before the entire team reassembled at Tindi, but nonetheless our halt lasted just 25 minutes.


The folks there complimented the small cars for getting through what they said was the “worst” section before Khillar. They said that this Udeypur-Tindi section gets closed down often during the rainy season due to the landslides. Not surprising, since the hillocks virtually tumble down onto the road and the road itself is perched precariously on the ledge with the river far down below.

Stage 1 Completed. Keylong-Tandi-Udeypur-Tindi.


Quote:
Gautam says,

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The advantage of HVK being many many steps ahead of the convoy, was that, laluks had lots of opportunities to click a lot of photos, and he did not disappoint. I'm sure the others would have loved to take a few snaps, but driving on these roads, required the utmost concentration and there wasn't time to stop and click photos, if we had to reach our destination by the end of the day!



HVK Scorpio also took on a local guy who wanted a “lift” to Khillar. So did the Bolero who had a passenger who wanted a lift to a village 36 kms ahead.

Quote:
Gautam says,

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Ah, Thindi at 10:50 am and a small tea stall cum restaurant cum vegetable vendor. Wonder of wonders HVK has actually stopped and boy were we glad! Some or rather a lot of tea into the body system was much needed. A break was needed after drive of the past 2 hours. After fortifying ourselves with parathas and teas and a lot of leg stretching, we were ready to embark on the next leg of the drive.

The locals were pretty surprised to see the convoy of vehicles with MH registrations in these parts of the country, but were equally effusive in their praise for having the guts to drive through these parts and more so for the SWIFTS!
On enquiring about the conditions of roads further on, we were assured that the worst was behind us and it would be very much smooth sailing from hereon...........
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Old 10th March 2012, 15:58   #1881
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Talking The Tale of 2 Swifts...

The Tale of 2 Swifts...Part 1


Deciding which car to take was a big question when it was almost confirmed that we are going. We dint have too many options but yes there was a dim chance of borrowing an innova or a scorpio. Obviously that was our first option but it dint work.

So now the only choice was to take any of the cars we own ourselves. Sedans were out for obvious reasons and so we were left with even fewer options. Yogen was always ready to take his Swift and i had a strong opinion about the hatches not being very comfortable for more than 2 people on such a long 3 week trip. Due to space and GC issues.

So now since we were a team of 4 we needed to hatches. AP owns an i10 and an estilo but he also had the option to borrow his uncles Swift and finally the swift won. SO it was a small team Mumbai Roadsters in their 2 Swifts.

But then as we all know that we tried to match our dates with the IPHE and fortunately became a part of the bigger team Kaza onwards! Going beyond Kaza itself would have been impossible had we been on our own.

Coming back to the topic.....The 2 Swifts were not very different from each other as both had petrol engines and 2 people in each of them. But just one major difference created a world of a difference when it comes to doing a trip involving all different possible terrains. It was the Tyres!

It was approximately an 8k kms trip of which APPROX - 50% was high speed national highways, 25% was bad roads, 15% was real bad roads (you can call it offroad trail driving), 5% was proper offroad obstacle driving and 5% was hardcore extreme offroad driving.

YPs Swift had Low Profile Summer Sport Yokohama S-Drives 205/55/15 with an one size up after market alloy wheel. Where as APs Swift had a Stock Set of JK Tyres 165/80/14 and steel wheels.

So what do you think ??

To be cont...more details soon.

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 10th March 2012 at 16:00.
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Old 10th March 2012, 23:13   #1882
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

My guess is that AP's swift with stock tyres would have done better.

What was the actual case??
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Old 11th March 2012, 09:09   #1883
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Answers to some of the questions that are often asked about tyres for cars going to Ladakh:

- No need to deflate air pressure for going on soft terrain anywhere en route

- No need for chains to drive on snow

- Soft tyres - like Yokoma, Michelin - handle very well, but take a big beating with lots of cuts & gashes on uneven & stony terrain

- Tyres with as much of tread as possible are best, so try to change over to new tyres around your Ladakh trip. Be prepared to lose lots of tyre life during the trip

- Alignments of wheels gets messed up during the trip, try to have it checked & fixed after you hit the plains for the long journey back home

- Will alloy wheels break? I always had this fear, but I think those fears are unfounded, they stand up to the terrain quite well, as so many of our friends who have driven there can confirm

- Carry along spare tubes (even for tubeless tyres). Having a spare valve or two will also help

- Should one carry a air pump? Always an useful thing to have

- Do not refill air in tyre just because the tyre looks deflated, quite normal because of the cold, bigger risk to over-inflate tyres

- Remove stones trapped inside treads from time to time

- Monitor the size & growth of any cuts that tyres may take in their side walls. If it continues to grow, consider replacing it with stepney or buy a new tyre

- Lots of tyre shops in Leh, but do not expect your favourite brand
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Old 11th March 2012, 13:41   #1884
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Default Re: The Tale of 2 Swifts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
The Tale of 2 Swifts...Part 1


Deciding which car to take was a big question when it was almost confirmed that we are going. We dint have too many options but yes there was a dim chance of borrowing an innova or a scorpio. Obviously that was our first option but it dint work.

So now the only choice was to take any of the cars we own ourselves. Sedans were out for obvious reasons and so we were left with even fewer options. Yogen was always ready to take his Swift and i had a strong opinion about the hatches not being very comfortable for more than 2 people on such a long 3 week trip. Due to space and GC issues.

So now since we were a team of 4 we needed to hatches. AP owns an i10 and an estilo but he also had the option to borrow his uncles Swift and finally the swift won. SO it was a small team Mumbai Roadsters in their 2 Swifts.

But then as we all know that we tried to match our dates with the IPHE and fortunately became a part of the bigger team Kaza onwards! Going beyond Kaza itself would have been impossible had we been on our own.

Coming back to the topic.....The 2 Swifts were not very different from each other as both had petrol engines and 2 people in each of them. But just one major difference created a world of a difference when it comes to doing a trip involving all different possible terrains. It was the Tyres!

It was approximately an 8k kms trip of which APPROX - 50% was high speed national highways, 25% was bad roads, 15% was real bad roads (you can call it offroad trail driving), 5% was proper offroad obstacle driving and 5% was hardcore extreme offroad driving.

YPs Swift had Low Profile Summer Sport Yokohama S-Drives 205/55/15 with an one size up after market alloy wheel. Where as APs Swift had a Stock Set of JK Tyres 165/80/14 and steel wheels.

So what do you think ??

To be cont...more details soon.

The Tale of 2 Swifts...Part 2


Tyres - Yokohama S-Drives 205/55/15 V/S Stock JK Tyres 165/80/14.

50% was high speed national highways - Yokos clear winner for obvious reasons

25% was bad roads - Yokos did better even in these sections as we could do reasonable speeds in such sections and the Yokos provided much more grip around around corners (205 section with good rubber). Where as the stock tyres would loose grip at times in gravel (165 section with JK rubber).

15% was real bad roads (you can call it offroad trail driving) - Again the Yokos did slightly better due to the above mentioned reason.

5% was proper offroad obstacle driving - Since YPs swift was running an upsized rims and hence a thinner sidewall, these sections became tricky. The possibility of having a sidewall bubble was higher. Hence the stock profile was a winner. But if you are careful and crawl thru such sections it should not be a problem.

5% was hardcore extreme offroad driving - In these sections you could not avoid going faster than you should be, else you would endup saving the tyres but busting the clutch. Loosing momentum in these sections was not a choice. Lack of torque and GC forced us to take a certain path at a certain speed to be able to cross without help.(sometimes even with help). Also there were sections (with loose gravel+water) where the yokos just dint get grip as they are more suitable for a dry surface. The Yokos would just keep spinning and dig into the stones. So getting a stable fixed anchor point for at least one of the front tyres was very important. So yes the stock tyer was a clear winner in these sections as they could take more beating and had a little more grip.

In conclusion, if i had to choose between the two i would go for the Yokos since they performed better for a major part of the entire trip and they dint let us get completely stuck even in the bad sections.

But given a choice to pick my perfect set i would go for a 185/70/14 from a brand which sells not a very soft compound tyre.


To be cont...
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Old 11th March 2012, 15:46   #1885
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Does Nitrogen inflated tyres make any difference in this high altitude roads? Can it be used or only the regular air is advisable?
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Old 11th March 2012, 16:01   #1886
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Originally Posted by Harshavarthan View Post
Does Nitrogen inflated tyres make any difference in this high altitude roads? Can it be used or only the regular air is advisable?
I don't think it makes any difference, you can use either of them.

I seldom check air pressure, unless I feel that I am developing a puncture (I normally use regular air). During this Ladakh trip, I inflated my tyres (marginal loss of pressure) when I docked to repair the puncture I faced in Leh after completing the Zanskar Valley sector.

I also believe that Nitrogen refilling is also now possible in Leh.

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[i]In conclusion, if i had to choose between the two i would go for the Yokos since they performed better for a major part of the entire trip and they dint let us get completely stuck even in the bad sections.

But given a choice
If I had to talk about my experience, I would sound like an advertisement for Yokos! Yes, they were fabulous on my Scorpio, will tell you more why as this TL progresses up Sach Pass soon.....

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th March 2012 at 23:24. Reason: back to back posts merged, thanks
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Old 11th March 2012, 16:16   #1887
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

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- Do not refill air in tyre just because the tyre looks deflated, quite normal because of the cold, bigger risk to over-inflate tyres
A quick note on how much the air pressure appears to reduce with cold. One would not notice this without an in-cabin TPMS readout such as the Scorpio VLX has.

We had 32 psi to begin with (according to the TPMS readout as well as by tyre pressure meter), and the readout at Leh came down to 28 psi. However, occasionally when we crossed a stream, the TPMS would start beeping indicating a pressure loss in one or another tyre. For the first couple of times it was disconcerting, but we figured out finally that the cold water would make the air in the tyres contract, and a sudden drop of a few psi set off the alert. The pressure readout came back to where it was in a couple of minutes of driving.
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Old 11th March 2012, 18:32   #1888
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Default Re: The Tale of 2 Swifts...

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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
If I had to talk about my experience, I would sound like an advertisement for Yokos! Yes, they were fabulous on my Scorpio, will tell you more why as this TL progresses up Sach Pass soon.....
Oh ya if you ask me about the Yokohama Geolanders AT i would do the same thing. There is hardly any tyre thats better than the Geolanders if you want to do a mix of highway and offroad driving. I had them on my Gypsy and dint face any issue during the entire ownership period. In fact i dint have a single puncture till the end even after doing a Ladakh trip and few OTR sessions also.

But the tyers on YPs swift are one of the BEST pure tarmac performance tyres. Ideally/theoretically they should never be used even on a kaccha road but we all know what they managed to tolerate in this situation.
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Old 12th March 2012, 12:57   #1889
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Originally Posted by Harshavarthan View Post
Does Nitrogen inflated tyres make any difference in this high altitude roads? Can it be used or only the regular air is advisable?

To begin with, consider that Air contains 79% Nitrogen.
Thus filling Nitrogen wont make a large difference. The coefficient of expansion for Nitrogen is quite lower as compared to the other components in air (largely oxygen). Thus nitrogen filled tyres will not expand largely in heat or on heating due to long runs.

If you are travelling to ladakh or any other remote place and don't have a pump to fill nitrogen you can very-well top-up using Nitrogen.

The nitrogen will be bit beneficial for the long run on plains though.
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Old 12th March 2012, 14:13   #1890
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1. Will August 1st week be a good time to visit Chandra Taal?
Sirji,
Am aware that I do owe you a call which somehow seems to be forgotten. Current plans of mine is to start on Aug 15
So do let me know what are your thoughts. But am not heading up the spiti way but instead taking the tourist ring for this time. Probably next few trips will be to take the roads less frequented.
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