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Old 16th April 2012, 11:00   #2206
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Sach PASS

OR

Sach FAIL

?????

!!!!SACH PASS WITHOUT DOUBT!!!!



After getting a confirmation from the SUV's team that we were on the right track we proceeded further and then we would have seen this(at about 2345) confirming the same even further....


Pic clicked by Lalu when they passed the same milestone at about 8PM.

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Tissa (30Kms) was as deserted as if it was nonexistent and hence we took more encouragement had a few chips, biscuits & khakhra and decided to drive to Chamba (65Kms). KP was catching-up on some sleep and refused to eat anything. We thought we would surprise him a few hours later by telling that we were in Chamba but then coming to our rescue, a little after we started from Tissa he got up and decided to drive all the way till Chamba.

The main inspiration that kept us going was that we will be able to end the day where the rest of the gang was – as a little surprise for them once again!

We reach Chamba at 3:30Am and drive straight into the hotel where the rest of the gang was. We get a room, hit the bed.

I was not able to get sleep because of hunger and more because i was unable to stop thinking about each and every minute spent in the last 21+ hours. We got net connectivity after a few days. Saw the update by Lalu on FB....
Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
Here's the FB update

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Check the time! The moment I got out of the shock I've updated our IPHE group on FB about the SWIFT Story.

By 3:45AM KSM had already updated that they are in their rooms.

What a day, what a team - Craziness unlimited

This was one night when we decided to sleep without setting any alarm and getting up whenever that would be....

It must be only next morning when HVK, Lalu, (who we met only later in Pathankot) Gautam & Shashank would have actually believed that we had crossed Sach pass when they saw us in flesh and blood...

For us it was their(the IPHE teams) expression of happiness & joy that proved that we had achieved something massive ……

It was pure teamwork of the members in the IPHE during the entire trip that got us that far and gave us a lesson on teamwork which the Mumbai Roadsters could take a step forward for themselves(rather to save themselves) and implement in an intense situation like this....It was each 1 among the 4 of us who made this happen only because all 4 of us played an equally important role in this Mission Sach Pass!!!

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Old 17th April 2012, 14:56   #2207
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HVK Scorpio
Aug 12, Bombay-Behror, 1402 kms
Aug 13, Behror-Rampur, 692 kms
Aug 14, Rampur-Chitkul, 144 kms
Aug 15, Chitkul-Pooh, 207 kms
Aug 16, Pooh-Kaza, 178 kms
Aug 17-19, Kaza, 291 kms
Aug 20, Kaza-Jispa, 236 kms
Aug 21, Jispa-Leh, 374 kms
Aug 22, Leh-Kargil, 343 kms
Aug 23, Kargil-Padum, 248 kms
Aug 24, Padum-Kargil, 275 kms
Aug 25, Kargil-Leh, 259 kms
Aug 26, Leh, 148 kms
Aug 27, 2011, Leh-Turtuk, 241 kms
Aug 28, 2011, Leh-Pangong Tso, 445 kms
Aug 29, 2011, Pangong-Hanle, 203 kms
Aug 30, 2011, Hanle-Tso Moriri, 188 kms
Aug 31, 2011, Tso Moriri-Keylong, 375 kms
Sep 1, 2011, Keylong-Chamba, 341 kms


Sep 2, 2011, Chamba-Pathankot, 158 kms

Now that the Exam results - Sach Pass, Pass or Fail? - are out, I guess it is time for me to move on!

What was on our mind that day?

- I was thrilled because not only had we driven through Sach Pass successfully, but I was also ONE DAY AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. I had buffered some extra time for the Keylong-Chamba sector, but since we crossed it in one day, we actually had the luxury of extra time.

- In my original plan, I had feared that delay would have meant that I have to drive non-stop from Chamba back to Bombay to ensure return on Sep 4, but now I actually had 3 FULL days to play around with. Such things are a luxury in my scheme of things

- BolBolero was too tired to stir out early morning, wanted some extra time to catch up on some lost sleep and let the excitement of the past few days subside.

- The Mumbai Roadsters deserved to sleep a lot more, so there was no Q of our rousing them from their slumbers

- I had to attend to the fan pulley problem in my Scorpio urgently, and the nearest workshop was in Pathankot, way below in the Punjab plains

- Lalu had taken a promise from me before the trip that we would also see Dalhousie if we reach Chamba successfully.


The team decided to go their separate ways for the day. Lalu & I in my Scorpio left a little late - at 635 am - and I was targeting to reach the M&M workshop in Pathankot by the time they opened for business. But first things first - let us see Dalhousie on the way to Pathankot.

Dalhousie is my favourite hill station in the Himalayas, and I have been there before twice, driving in from Bombay. So I guess I knew the general layout of the place, and I planned a circuit that would take us past the best places.

We were in Khajjiar by 730 am. The road was lovely through deep woods - deodhars & pines - and in excellent condition, the kind of winding roads a mobiker would love. A local mobiker tried some stunts to show that he was a great rider, but we ignored him and kept going our own pace. Being early morning, apart from some stray dogs, there was no one at Khajjiar - that is the kind of "Chowpatty" sooner the tourists start pouring in.

From Khajjiar, we crossed Kala Top (the road point), Lakkad Mandi and were in Dalhousie at 815 am. Happily, the town was empty of tourists, the way I like it, but we did not stop even for a cuppa tea. We wanted to have breakfast but having spent so many days in the wilderness, the cacophony of so many people & vehicles maybe turned us off and we kept driving through the town.

The roads via Tunhatti & Dunera were fantastic, Wide, excellent condition & low traffic.

That is when I noticed that something was wrong with my car which was going beyond 30-40 kmph on proper roads for the first time after many days. I could feel the vehicle "racing" in third and fourth gears, indicating some clutch or gear box problems. Oh no, here comes trouble!

Having reached Chakki - intersection with NH20, and a suburb of Pathankot - I found the Mahindra service station on the highway itself and rolled my car in at exactly 10 am even as they had just then rolled up their shutters. Immediate attention from the Workshop Manager and his crew....they first tried to argue with me that there was a problem in my gear box, but then I brought them around to checking the clutch plate which I had changed just before the trip in Bombay.

The clutch plate which was barely 6000 kms or so old was found to have developed problems and had to be changed. Not because of the Himalayas. Not because I am a bad driver (my previous clutch plates had lasted 95,000 kms & 135,000 kms). I will tell you all about this in my next post.

The fan pulley was also replaced, it was found to have corroded, probably because of worn out rubber seals and the effect of mud water splashing on it during those several sections of mud-trawling & water crossings that we had done the last few days. It was great that the belt pulley had lasted such a rigorous ordeal, and could have easily seized leaving me high and dry on the way somewhere, but my Scorpio had not let me down.

I was in the workshop all day supervising the work. Work went on till 5 pm. Many came to my car and asked me Qs like:

"Saab, are you a Maggi salesman?" after seeing all those Maggi Noodles packs & Cup O Noodles cups heaped up in my car (the reserve food!)

"Sir, are you a quack (desi doctor)?" this because Lalu had heaped up so many of those fragrant medicinal plants in my car, picked up from the mountainsides on the way.

BolBolero came in sometime early evening from Chamba - and he had his own set of repairs to be carried out.

The Mumbai Roadsters - I guess they will tell their own story......

And I also finally got a call from the IPHE - B Team which we had last seen (and not heard from) ever since we parted ways at Debring on Aug 31.

Last edited by hvkumar : 17th April 2012 at 14:58.
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Old 17th April 2012, 16:48   #2208
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Log Book of HVK Scorpio Sep 2, 2011, Chamba-Pathankot, 158 kms

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Old 18th April 2012, 09:45   #2209
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Those of you who may have admired my Scorpio for what it has done must also read this post which I put on this Forum (published on Sep 7, 2011) after I returned from my Ladakh trip. This pertains to the problem that I mentioned in my last post when some problems in the Scorpio manifested itself during the Chamba-Pathankot drive.

Read on......

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2496705 (Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
You may recall that I had changed the Clutch Plate assembly in my Scorpio last month in preparation for my Ladakh trip. I had also reported my apprehensions that the parts used by the M&M ASC Global Gallarie, Thane, were suspected to be non-genuine and based on my report here in this forum, a M&M person stepped in and assured me that the parts used were genuine.

Let me give you the shocking update now!
I completed my 24-day Ladakh trip 2 days ago. While returning from Ladakh, before Pathankot I realised that the engine was "racing" - meaning that the rev was going flat in the 3-5th gears momentarily. I called on M&M ASC Krishna Autoworld at Pathankot and based on their recommendation, the entire clytch plate assembly was dismounted and checked. The results were:

- Clutch Plate was OK, but apparently "sticky"



- Clutch Pressure Plate was OK, but there were unusual abrasion marks where the Clutch Release Bearing engaged


Notice the wear-out marks in teh brand-new Cltch Pressure Plate where the CRB engages





- But the Clutch Release Bearing showed unusual abrasion - in fact, there were deep score marks on the CRB, something which should not happen, it being a heat-treated component. Very clearly, the CRB metal was soft and was getting prematurely worn out. I was shocked to see it so - even the old CRB I had discarded last month after 1.35 lakh kms of use did not have a single score mark in it.

Notice how deeply grooved is the CRB where it engages with the CPressure Plate







IN any case, the CRB is the hardest and longest-lasting component in the whole assembly and there is no way it should have got so deformed in under 8,000 kms! Please remember that my clutch plates have lasted very long - really very long - and in my 2.87 lakh kms of driving, I have changed the CP at 95,000, 140,000 and 275,000 kms.

This episode blows the lid off the rot at M&M ASCs - and maybe at M&M itself - of selling shoddy sub-standard non-spec components to unsuspecting customers. Had my Scorpio broken down in any of the high passes in Ladakh, you can imagine my plight. But luckily, the sturdy Scorpio made it well, my good luck.

I am uploading photos here of the various components - I replaced the entire Clutch Plate assembly at Pathankot since I lost total confidence in the parts fitted by Global Gallarie, the so-called "best" dealer of M&M.

BTW, the M&M guy who contacted me after the last problem refused to respond to my SMS - sent from Pathankot - and his phone is not responding. Mahindra attitudes hamesha!!!!

This is the same Scorpio which is considered to be well-maintained. What I had painstakingly prepared. What we ordinary mortals plan, the best of Mahindra service centres wreck!

I knew it was pointless fighting with Mahindra with whom I have had several tiffs before on various aspects of the vehicle, and to which I have always been cold-shouldered. Nevertheless, thanks to the care that I take, this vehicle still runs the way it does.

But the thread that I posted in team-bhp.com yielded results beyond what I would have imagined.......
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Old 18th April 2012, 11:37   #2210
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Hello guys, I am a regular visitor of this thread and have a question which is not exactly related to this logue but think that you might be the best guys to answer.

I was looking at the specifications of scorpio, swift, innnova etc. The ground clearance mentioned is 180 mm for scorpio, 170 mm for swift and 176 mm for innova. If barely 6-10 mm separate these then how come the likes of scorpios and innovas are preferred in Ladakh or alternatively, why does a hatchback finds it too difficult to handle that terrain? Does the 10 mm makes so much of a difference. Or is it that the lowest part in scorpio is something unimportant and hangs low but overall the floor/axles/suspensions of that vehicle are much higher from the ground as compared to swifts?

Would love to get views of owners of both types of vehicles. Thanks!
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Old 18th April 2012, 11:44   #2211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipnil View Post
Hello guys, I am a regular visitor of this thread and have a question which is not exactly related to this logue but think that you might be the best guys to answer.

I was looking at the specifications of scorpio, swift, innnova etc. The ground clearance mentioned is 180 mm for scorpio, 170 mm for swift and 176 mm for innova. If barely 6-10 mm separate these then how come the likes of scorpios and innovas are preferred in Ladakh or alternatively, why does a hatchback finds it too difficult to handle that terrain? Does the 10 mm makes so much of a difference. Or is it that the lowest part in scorpio is something unimportant and hangs low but overall the floor/axles/suspensions of that vehicle are much higher from the ground as compared to swifts?

Would love to get views of owners of both types of vehicles. Thanks!
AFAIK, the GC referred to is the lowest part of the vehicle, which in the Scorpio is a part of the suspension. Not any crucial part like the engine sump or fuel tank or exhaust pipe, which is the case with most sedans. Therefore, it is always easier to manouevre the Scorpio in a sticky situation than a sedan. I have driven a low-GC Matiz as well the Scorpio in such terrain, and I found that there is no problem for the Scorpio whereas I have ended up damaging sumps, exhaust piping, lower arms, etc in the Matiz. Another aspect you must keep in mind is that with load in the car, the GC goes down further, and a SUV will have better load-carrying capability to remain higher. Let me say these are just my uninformed opinions, I have no idea what the technicalities are.

Another aspect you must also keep in mind is that the SUVs in general are higher from the ground than sedans. Sedans have problems with their long wheelbases which put them in difficulties when they have to negotiate boulder or muddy stretches. I never even think of my wheel base when I drive the Scorpio.

Last edited by hvkumar : 18th April 2012 at 11:47.
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Old 18th April 2012, 12:30   #2212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Another aspect you must keep in mind is that with load in the car, the GC goes down further, and a SUV will have better load-carrying capability to remain higher.
This is often the unspoken aspect in the GC debate. Sedans/hatches tend to much more softly sprung, which leads to a lot more of diving (not sure if this is the correct term) in the vehicle.

The main detrimental impact of this is that whatever advantage you have in GC will not be there in unpredictable ways over bumpy/rocky stretches depending on the speed you're carrying. Stretches that you can move over without worrying at 10 KMPH will suddenly become sump breakers at a 5 or 10 extra KMPH, because of this factor.

In a SUV with a similar GC, the dive is far less, allowing you to drive with better peace of mind. Also, the Scorpio has an engine/sump guard, which gives you much better protection. In hatches/sedans, I have only seen Fiat with good underbody protection so far.

W.R.T. the clutch, I have heard a similar story about seemingly fake parts from a MGP outlet. Two bust clutch sets, each not lasting beyond 7000 KMs. I think the issue is not limited to M&M alone.

Last edited by codelust : 18th April 2012 at 12:34.
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Old 18th April 2012, 13:09   #2213
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Originally Posted by codelust View Post
This is often the unspoken aspect in the GC debate. Sedans/hatches tend to much more softly sprung, which leads to a lot more of diving (not sure if this is the correct term) in the vehicle.
I also think all under-body components in sedans are tightly packed together in almost the same level, unlike what I see in my Scorpio, lots of spacing and even if anything takes a small hit - like the exhaust piping - it gets deflected and does not take much damage.

This is also the main reason why I caution sedans against taking more than 2 people when they go to places like Ladakh - not only will 4 people bog down the car, but also you have to carry that much more baggage, and all these theoretical calculations of GC 180 get diluted down, and you are virtually down on your haunches.

Quote:
The main detrimental impact of this is that whatever advantage you have in GC will not be there in unpredictable ways over bumpy/rocky stretches depending on the speed you're carrying. Stretches that you can move over without worrying at 10 KMPH will suddenly become sump breakers at a 5 or 10 extra KMPH, because of this factor.
Why do you think I maintained speeds of 15 kmph throughout the Keylong-Chamba sector? Never have I exceeded speeds of 30 kmph anywhere the whole day!


Quote:
W.R.T. the clutch, I have heard a similar story about seemingly fake parts from a MGP outlet. Two bust clutch sets, each not lasting beyond 7000 KMs. I think the issue is not limited to M&M alone.
In this case, it turned out that the ASC fitted the CRB wrongly, leading to pre-mature wear. I also suspect that there was a slight variation in the specs of the CRB that was fitted, since Mahindra ASCs are confused about which part to use for different makes of Scorpios ( since mine is the earliest version of the Scorpio, and the crde, m-hawk all have different specs).
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Old 18th April 2012, 13:20   #2214
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Default Re: HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Apart from these very important points -
1. Stiffness and load carrying capacity of the suspension
2. Critical parts being really low in a hatch as compared to the suvs

Few more points -
3. Approach angles are very tight in a hatch due to the front and rear overhang and also because the lowest point on the bumber is not much higher(or equally low) than the GC point. Where as in the SUVs the bumper ends much higher than the GC point.
4. Since the tyre size of the hatch is much smaller than the ones SUVs it becomes much more difficult for a hatch to grip and climb onto uneven surfaces etc..
5. The difference in the torque and gearing ratios between the 2 types of the vehicles also contribute to the issue. In a hatch one is forced to take a long run up and build momentum to coverup for the low torque. Coupled with the soft suspension the probability probability of the underbody getting hit increases.

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 18th April 2012 at 13:21.
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Old 18th April 2012, 14:52   #2215
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I am in real difficulty here. I don't know whether I am a purist or whether I lack an adventurous spirit.

I find that if you're serious about doing this kinda thing, you ought to have a vehicle suited to this purpose.

but then I guess most people just have a life that doesn't revolve around expeditions like this and they buy cars that are suited to that life, but then are also adventurous enough to go to wild places with whatever resource they have in their lives.

hmmm.
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Old 18th April 2012, 15:34   #2216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I am in real difficulty here. I don't know whether I am a purist or whether I lack an adventurous spirit.

I find that if you're serious about doing this kinda thing, you ought to have a vehicle suited to this purpose.

but then I guess most people just have a life that doesn't revolve around expeditions like this and they buy cars that are suited to that life, but then are also adventurous enough to go to wild places with whatever resource they have in their lives.

hmmm.

When one is in a situation like this i am sure he would give his best shot before backing out and that best shot would surly be adventurous enough to his own judgement.

If one intends to become a part of such situations often and is serious about his plans to travel to exotic locations like these freqesntly, i would agree that it would be worth investing in a capable vehicle.

Many of us do not have the liberty to allocate a budget towards an expedition vehicles and at the same time do not want to miss out on driving to exotic locations hence.....necessity becomes the mother of invention...and we do the adventurous expeditions in our daily life cars
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Old 18th April 2012, 15:38   #2217
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Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
... at the same time do not want to miss out on driving to exotic locations hence.....necessity becomes the mother of invention...and we do the adventurous expeditions in our daily life cars
And invention becomes the mother of innovation. And it is innovate what you all did.
Quote:
In a hatch one is forced to take a long run up and build momentum to coverup for the low torque. Coupled with the soft suspension the probability probability of the underbody getting hit increases.
Add to it the lower low end torque of the swift, necessitating innovative thinking and action

Last edited by rajeev k : 18th April 2012 at 15:42.
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Old 18th April 2012, 15:47   #2218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I am in real difficulty here. I don't know whether I am a purist or whether I lack an adventurous spirit.

I find that if you're serious about doing this kinda thing, you ought to have a vehicle suited to this purpose.

but then I guess most people just have a life that doesn't revolve around expeditions like this and they buy cars that are suited to that life, but then are also adventurous enough to go to wild places with whatever resource they have in their lives.

hmmm.
It is different factors for different people, sometimes those factors are constraints from our daily lives. For instance, the number of Gypsies and other 4x4 vehicles that get listed in the classifieds section because of a lack of parking space is pretty high. In cities like Bombay it can be frightfully expensive to find parking for two cars, that is when you can afford to maintain two vehicles in the first place.

For me, in Delhi, the situation is marginally better, but I have to park my Gypsy in an area that I can't see from my home, the slot in front is taken up by the Swift.

Such constraints aside, it also boils down to scratching an itch and knocking an item off your bucket list. I have done Leh twice and Spiti once in my little hatchback, but with that I've had my fill. There is no more the urge to prove it to myself that I can (and have) do it. The amount of time you spend worrying about saving your car stands in the way of enjoying the drive itself.

That was the only reason why got myself a Gypsy, but I am lucky to be able to afford such an indulgence. Most others are not and have to make do with whatever is otherwise available.
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Old 18th April 2012, 16:08   #2219
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Originally Posted by codelust View Post
For instance, the number of Gypsies and other 4x4 vehicles that get listed in the classifieds section because of a lack of parking space is pretty high. In cities like Bombay it can be frightfully expensive to find parking for two cars, that is when you can afford to maintain two vehicles in the first place.
Cant agree more, i am a perfect example of what Shyam has just highlighted.

I am form Bombay and i had to sell my Gypsy due to lack of parking space after taking so much pain to build it for an expedition (Ladakh Trip)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-complete.html (My Army Spec "Demon Gypsy": Project Complete)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...rld-gypsy.html (Mumbai Roadsters - Touring LADAKH "Roof of the World" in a Gypsy)

But in a way i am happy because the next Ladakh trip (HumbLeh'd II) was with a great team and to even more exotic locations in a Swift! and this indirectly became more exciting and adventurous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codelust View Post
The amount of time you spend worrying about saving your car stands in the way of enjoying the drive itself.

That was the only reason why got myself a Gypsy,
Well i did it the other way around - Gypsy first Swift next and i still agree with your conclusion if one has the liberty to do so.
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Old 18th April 2012, 16:26   #2220
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Default HumbLeh'd II (Indo Polish Himalayan Expedition to Ladakh & Himachal Pradesh)

Day 17, Chamba - Pathankot, 2nd. September 2011

Hotel Iravati, Chamba.

I woke up pretty early at around 6:30 am, and glanced out of the window to see HVK and laluks packing up the Scorpio to leave for Pathankot via Dalhousie. But after the grueling drive of the previous day, I was in no mood to leave so early. Besides the sight of the Mumbai Roadster's two swifts in the compound of the hotel was more than enough reason for me to stay back and meet them before proceeding towards Pathankot.

Saw that SSj was still fast asleep, so crawled back into bed for another short nap, only to wake up again at around 9:00 am. This was the first day ever since we had left Srinagar, that we had to use the fan at full speed the whole night through! I guess the days of chilly nights are over!

Got a call from KSM-Vtec, wanting to know if we were awake and if he could come and disturb us! NEKI AUR POOCH POOCH? I asked him to come over PRONTO!

Ordered for some teas before he arrived. KSM-Vtec arrived with a huge smile plastered on his face. The face said it all, the pride and sense of accomplishment for having driven through Sach Pass in Swifts.

We had a long discussion on all the tribulations the Mumbai Roadsters faced on the drive right from Keylong to Chamba, especially from the time, we separated from the Swifts and drove on ahead. We listened in awe as KSM-Vtec described in great detail the full drive.

The other three Mumbai Roadsters were all fast asleep in their room, and who can blame them. Driving for more than 21 hrs at a stretch and on the kind of roads that they encountered is no small feat. Over and above that, completing the drive in two Swifts is an unparalleled achievement!

I take this opportunity to once again congratulate the Mumbai Roadsters for driving through a road, which many would consider unmanageable for hatches!

doctorque, anku, yogen, Guys you rock! I was, am and forever will be amazed at the amount of guts you guys showed for completing this drive, under such harsh conditions and that too it being your first drive in the Himalayas. Hats off to you GUYS!


to be continued......
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