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Old 1st June 2016, 17:27   #16
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

Heartiest Congratulations to your Brave Heart Friends. The pictures were excellent and the videos too.

In your opinion, why there was starting problem, @ 4000 mt. You had said driver induced, what did you mean.

What is your 3 point turn, is it turning very sharp at high rev, and letting the rear tyre skid (any one).

Had done 28 - 30% , slope in nepal with a maruti van, and a swift diesel, in a one way traffic, in a clear sunny day, partial broken, un- tarmacked, hard surfaced. Had clear momentum all the time. both vehicles very small in length, with plenty of torque, specially the maruti van.

do you think a maruti van with 2 people can make it, to the top. experts can comment on the usability of maruti van on steep slopes (non wet roads).

i am planning to buy the double cab, 3175mm wheel base, 4x4 isuzu. it has 230 ground clearance. In your opinion a 5200mm vehicle can do the bends in sandakphu. i know, its little difficult to speculate, but perhaps a lot of people will be looking forward to that info. Perhaps the experts, who have been to sandakphu, can comment on that.

what about a 4 x4 tata 407. length , i mean.

from video, it seems the width of the road, along with the steep bends are the main, hindrances. otherwise i have seen tata minibuses (actually they are the tractor trailor horse, with 6 cylinder), doing more steep inclines and more high altitude. ( they only require a momentum, and sure shot knowledge of, no traffic from other side!), please correct me, if wrong.

Any reason, why not going to dareeling and spending some time around.

Thanx in advance.
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Old 1st June 2016, 17:47   #17
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
Heartiest Congratulations to your Brave Heart Friends. The pictures were excellent and the videos too.

In your opinion, why there was starting problem, @ 4000 mt. You had said driver induced, what did you mean.

What is your 3 point turn, is it turning very sharp at high rev, and letting the rear tyre skid (any one).

Had done 28 - 30% , slope in nepal with a maruti van, and a swift diesel, in a one way traffic, in a clear sunny day, partial broken, un- tarmacked, hard surfaced. Had clear momentum all the time. both vehicles very small in length, with plenty of torque, specially the maruti van.

do you think a maruti van with 2 people can make it, to the top. experts can comment on the usability of maruti van on steep slopes (non wet roads).

i am planning to buy the double cab, 3175mm wheel base, 4x4 isuzu. it has 230 ground clearance. In your opinion a 5200mm vehicle can do the bends in sandakphu. i know, its little difficult to speculate, but perhaps a lot of people will be looking forward to that info. Perhaps the experts, who have been to sandakphu, can comment on that.

what about a 4 x4 tata 407. length , i mean.

from video, it seems the width of the road, along with the steep bends are the main, hindrances. otherwise i have seen tata minibuses (actually they are the tractor trailor horse, with 6 cylinder), doing more steep inclines and more high altitude. ( they only require a momentum, and sure shot knowledge of, no traffic from other side!), please correct me, if wrong.

Any reason, why not going to dareeling and spending some time around.

Thanx in advance.
@dr. sen.
Thanks.
To clarify you point wise:
1. The starting issue was due to the temperature. It was nearly 0 degrees.
2. The driver induced issue was about the Duster getting heated up, and they were doing such hills for the first time, the engine heated up.
3. The turns were made by using either turn braking where the front left wheel acts as a little brake during a right turn when you rev a bit hard into the turn. The tyres squeal a bit but help in oversteer, thereby negotiating the tighter turns without a problem.
4. I don't think a Maruti van has any chance of making it to the top.
5. A 4x4 Isuzu. Can definitely be tried! Same was earlier said about Gangsta being too long. But you never know unless you try!
6. Tata 407 with a 4x4 has a bad turning radius and there are minimal chances considering the width of the vehicle on those roads. So I am apprehensive about it. But again, one never knows unless you try. But the wisdom lies in knowing the limits of a machine.
7. Here it is a case where the hairpin bends are so close to each other that gaining momentum becomes a slight problem, considering it has boulders all over. May be it can be done on tarmac, but with boulders under the wheels, I am not sure.
Hope I have been able to clear your issues to the best of my knowledge.
Warm regards
Unavowed_X9
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Old 1st June 2016, 18:29   #18
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

Great read guys. Now I can imagine what I missed out on when you all invited me to tag-along with my MM550 NGCS. Had met Satya who narrated the whole trip but now I could relate to all that he said as the pics revel. Kudos to all of you and look forward to having a good time meeting up and planning something exciting soon as my re-incarnated MM begs to taken out.
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Old 1st June 2016, 18:34   #19
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Well-done Krishna. Absolutely 👌
Just finished going through the log. Wonderfully penned and beautifully captured.
Keep up writing buddy. Straight,to the point n no drama style is superb.
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Old 1st June 2016, 19:37   #20
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

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Originally Posted by dieselhead View Post
Great read guys. Now I can imagine what I missed out on when you all invited me to tag-along with my MM550 NGCS. Had met Satya who narrated the whole trip but now I could relate to all that he said as the pics revel. Kudos to all of you and look forward to having a good time meeting up and planning something exciting soon as my re-incarnated MM begs to taken out.
@dieselhead.
Thanks. Now we know you will not refuse to join us once we plan a trip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by techfreak View Post
Well-done Krishna. Absolutely 👌
Just finished going through the log. Wonderfully penned and beautifully captured.
Keep up writing buddy. Straight,to the point n no drama style is superb.
@techfreak.
Thanks sir.
Im overwhelmed.

The intent was to be precise and give a clean description of the conditions, capability requirements and limitation issues that one may come across while doing a trail. Further, I strongly believe that driving skills are accentuated with knowledge of the vehicle one drives and above stated issues. Its not about proving a point or denying anyone, but emphasising the tweaks needed to overcome certain hurdles.
The Duster's performance is commendable in this regard.
Warm regards
Unavowed_X9
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Old 1st June 2016, 20:00   #21
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

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Originally Posted by IndiaSierra View Post
Let me be the first to congratulate you on this wonderful travelogue! When I had heard about your trip from Anupam da I was confident that the Pajero would make it but was a bit skeptical about its length. But you did it like a professional! The photos are sensational!
@IndiaSierra,
Thanks.
I hoped some of you might also join us from Kolkata. Was in touch with BlackPearl. I knew he would have loved to join in and he did say as much too!
Warm regards
Unavowed_X9
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Old 1st June 2016, 20:15   #22
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

Hello folks. Yet another Sandakpu travelogue. Glad to see petrolheads heading from far and wide to do the famed Sandakpu trail.
Wonderfully depicted in pictures. The sweet negotiations of the LWB Pajero is commendable.
Driving in the night with poor visibility on those roads was definitely not a good proposition. But like you have put it circumstances do arise at times. They say alls well that ends well. Love the Pajeros awesome lights. Where did you guys park at night? Below the sherpa chalet or little below against the wall? Were there any problem getting the diesel motors starting in the morning in the cold? We did a two thar crde trip in cold December once and due to chilly winds overnight one of the thars refused to start until we had to open up the entire pump assembly and prime it almost costing us the whole day. Although i have parked at colder places than this. The chilly wind probably freezes the diesel quicker.
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Old 1st June 2016, 20:39   #23
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

Thanks for sharing the details with us, the videos and photographs are pretty nice, especially when the Pajero was being shot while leading, it was awesome.

Which route did you guys took in Bengal [to & fro] NH-34 or Bhagalpur? I think it is not mentioned, hence asked.

How different is your GLX from the SFX? I swear, had Pajero [not the Sports] been on sale, I would have bought it. Why don't manufacturers build SUV's which is like a brick?
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Old 1st June 2016, 21:02   #24
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Default Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

I am unable to recollect what words I ought to use while replying to this travelogue - the usual compliments refuse to come out. All I can say is, WOW!

Now, I consider myself no novice about driving in fog - and I'd written a comprehensive manual on driving in fog (ARTICLE: Guidelines & Tips for Safe Driving in FOG) at one time. But your video of driving on that foggy night left me a little more than speechless.

If only you had told your readers to put on their brown pants before watching the following video, you'd have saved many an urgent cleanup on the nether aisles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
You and your friends won this time. But the mountains never lose. They're waiting...

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 1st June 2016 at 21:04.
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Old 1st June 2016, 21:58   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I am unable to recollect what words I ought to use while replying to this travelogue - the usual compliments refuse to come out. All I can say is, WOW!

Now, I consider myself no novice about driving in fog - and I'd written a comprehensive manual on driving in fog (ARTICLE: Guidelines & Tips for Safe Driving in FOG) at one time. But your video of driving on that foggy night left me a little more than speechless.

If only you had told your readers to put on their brown pants before watching the following video, you'd have saved many an urgent cleanup on the nether aisles.


You and your friends won this time. But the mountains never lose. They're waiting...
@SS-Traveller.
Thanks.
Absolutely agree.
As the first sentence of my travelogue says,
"Never underestimate the elements…the mountains do not show mercy!".
The point is in knowing your limitations, abilities and the same of your machine. Now Im glad I deliberately withheld one of the top-rated-horror video in the drive which I donot want anyone to experience or try, of course circumstantial though! As it is said, when the going gets tough...the tough gets going! Hence we got going! And Im now sure Gangsta is tough as nails.
Warm regards
Unavowed_X9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Thanks for sharing the details with us, the videos and photographs are pretty nice, especially when the Pajero was being shot while leading, it was awesome.

Which route did you guys took in Bengal [to & fro] NH-34 or Bhagalpur? I think it is not mentioned, hence asked.

How different is your GLX from the SFX? I swear, had Pajero [not the Sports] been on sale, I would have bought it. Why don't manufacturers build SUV's which is like a brick?
@Sheel.
Thanks.
We took the NH-34 with some diversions to avoid Kaliachak, and Dalkhola. The guides were in Duster. So will ask them to elucidate on this. But roads are better than projected.
There is not much difference between the GLX and SFX, except for cosmetic changes and the retractable electric antenna. The one I have is a 2003 CBU and the SFXs are CKDs.
Warm regards
Unavowed_X9

Last edited by ampere : 1st June 2016 at 22:24. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 1st June 2016, 23:42   #26
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Thumbs up Re: Pajero, Duster & Thar: Zero visibility raid on Sandakphu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselritzer View Post
1. In the hills, is it recommended to drive without wearing seat beats? In a worst case scenario folks can jump out of the vehicle faster, true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
@Dieselritzer. Thanks.
1. A seat belt is also designed to keep you securely in your seat. I believe jumping out may not really help. Further, the moving weights due to not wearing seatbelts may cause further damage. Its simply a matter of pure physics, like coins rattling inside a tin box! Moreover, if you really need to abandon ship, unfastening the seatbelt hardly takes time. There are only certain medical exceptions that exempt you from wearing seatbelts (please refer to traffic safety regulations). So, always keep your seatbelts fastened, the moment you enter the vehicle, even though its static.
Off Topic. Just learned a really useful lesson while I was watching a video on "How to drive through deep waters" (video below): Roll down your windows and remove your seat belts. Electronics can't be trusted irrespective of the brand. @Dieselritzer, you knew something which is right in a different situation.

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Old 2nd June 2016, 00:21   #27
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

Excellent travelogue Unavowed_X9 and lovely pics! I have said multiple times before that any vehicle with a 4 low GB will easily go to Sandakphu and beyond. No issues with the Thar and the Pajero as we have been there in worse weather and back because these vehicles are so capable. However I don't subscribe to what the Duster did in such bad weather. If something had happened, the LR lobby would stop personal vehicles from plying there in future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
The turns were made by using either turn braking where the front left wheel acts as a little brake during a right turn when you rev a bit hard into the turn. The tyres squeal a bit but help in oversteer, thereby negotiating the tighter turns without a problem.
I did not understand this part, I have never had to do such a thing or I am missing something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
do you think a maruti van with 2 people can make it, to the top. experts can comment on the usability of maruti van on steep slopes (non wet roads)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
I don't think a Maruti van has any chance of making it to the top.
A maruti van can go as far as Tumling nowadays, but not beyond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
i am planning to buy the double cab, 3175mm wheel base, 4x4 isuzu. it has 230 ground clearance. In your opinion a 5200mm vehicle can do the bends in sandakphu. i know, its little difficult to speculate, but perhaps a lot of people will be looking forward to that info. Perhaps the experts, who have been to sandakphu, can comment on that.
Ford Endeavour, Bolero Di (LWB), Bolero pickups all go to Sandakphu and till Phalut. No issues with the LWB as long as there is 4 Low to help during turns. So I am sure the Isuzu 4x4 will go there as well. It is only a matter of time before somebody takes it up there to prove it

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
what about a 4 x4 tata 407. length , i mean.
A Tata 407 would be too much I think, otherwise the army out there would not have relied on the LRs and the Bolero pickups for their ration

Last edited by BlackPearl : 2nd June 2016 at 00:28.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 08:09   #28
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Excellent travelogue Unavowed_X9 and lovely pics! I have said multiple times before that any vehicle with a 4 low GB will easily go to Sandakphu and beyond. No issues with the Thar and the Pajero as we have been there in worse weather and back because these vehicles are so capable. However I don't subscribe to what the Duster did in such bad weather. If something had happened, the LR lobby would stop personal vehicles from plying there in future.


I did not understand this part, I have never had to do such a thing or I am missing something.

A Tata 407 would be too much I think, otherwise the army out there would not have relied on the LRs and the Bolero pickups for their ration
@BlackPearl.
Thanks!

1. Agreed. The intention was to reach Sandakphu before last light, but somehow the circumstances led us otherwise! Definitely do not want the Duster being used under such conditions, and told my friends as much when we returned!

2. Guess should have used the term 'tight corner braking' that occurs with 4x4 central diff lock vehicles turning sharp corners. In a Pajero, there is 4HLc and 4LLc, which are Central Diff Lock modes, unlike the other 4x4 vehicles in India that are basically factory fitted with Rear Diff Lock. Initially unsure if 4H can allow me to negotiate, chose the 4LLc (4L in other vehicles with Rear Diff Lock; The Thar, Bolero and other 4x4 vehicles have rear Diff Lock - do correct me if its otherwise). This led to 'tight corner braking' which in fact allowed to literally swivel the vehicle over one of the front wheels (again a circumstantial practical discovery!). After a few more turns, as you must have noticed in the video, realising it might be putting unnecesary strain on the drive system (not wanting to use a cannon to kill mosquito!), got back to negotiating the inclined turns with 4H, as it had more than sufficient power to deal with them effortlessly. In fact, except during steep rocky ascents/descents, did not need 4LLc (or th 4L).

3. Yes. Definitely agree about the Maruti van. At the most, Tumling. May be.

4. You are right! The SSB there (not the Army), would have definitely used the Tata 407s had it been possible, but they see no point in risking it. Did raise the same issue with the Coy Cdr and the troops there, and this is what I gathered. Further, from my knowledge of driving the Tata 407 4x4 model, its turning dynamics is very bad too, and it scares me!

Warm Regards
Unavowed_X9

Last edited by Unavowed_X9 : 2nd June 2016 at 08:19.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 16:32   #29
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

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Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
The Return Journey: Sandakphu - Mane Bhanjang

[/b]
Super Travelogue and wonderful write-up

I would like to point out that the Duster Video is showing it in a poor picture. After all a Vehicle is just a machine, the man behind is what matters the most.

And in this video it proves the point in no uncertain way, just by observing the angle chosen by the driver for the last hair pin bend.

No Offence to the driver of the Duster, but i am a fan boy of Duster
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Old 3rd June 2016, 12:51   #30
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Default Re: Zero Visibility Raid On Sandakphu With A Pajero, Duster And A Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unavowed_X9 View Post
@BlackPearl.
Thanks!

2. Guess should have used the term 'tight corner braking' that occurs with 4x4 central diff lock vehicles turning sharp corners. In a Pajero, there is 4HLc and 4LLc, which are Central Diff Lock modes, unlike the other 4x4 vehicles in India that are basically factory fitted with Rear Diff Lock. Initially unsure if 4H can allow me to negotiate, chose the 4LLc (4L in other vehicles with Rear Diff Lock; The Thar, Bolero and other 4x4 vehicles have rear Diff Lock - do correct me if its otherwise). This led to 'tight corner braking' which in fact allowed to literally swivel the vehicle over one of the front wheels (again a circumstantial practical discovery!). After a few more turns, as you must have noticed in the video, realising it might be putting unnecesary strain on the drive system (not wanting to use a cannon to kill mosquito!), got back to negotiating the inclined turns with 4H, as it had more than sufficient power to deal with them effortlessly. In fact, except during steep rocky ascents/descents, did not need 4LLc (or th 4L).
None of the Indian vehicles come with diff lock except Gurkha which has manual diff locks at front and rear, Thar with MLD and Safari xenon with LSD.
I may be missing something but end result which you want to achieve for tight turns can only be achieved through rear wheel drive (2wd) mode, else traction to all 4 wheels would lead entire vehicle to slide towards outer edge.

Shubhendra
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