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Old 13th April 2008, 09:47   #256
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Hmmm.. these riff-raff, you'll find them at almost every tourist destinations. I am surprised they didnt harrass you on Holi Day. I was in Goa at the time and I saw many tourists being harrassed in the name of Holi and asked to pay "chanda". One such idiot tried the same with me and I slapped his hand away.
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Old 13th April 2008, 10:15   #257
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Sam - the very fact that you controlled your rage was a very good thing.

Jenny - Don't worry about the boys, as everyone has said here - that kind of fear works in India.

But the surprising thing for me is the way the police handled the situation !

Call me a pessimist - but I would love to get views on whether the cops would have acted the way they did , if it was an Indian woman in place of Jenny ?
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Old 13th April 2008, 10:45   #258
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How unfortunate !! I called Sam yesterday and he told me in brief what happened.

Now after reading the whole incident, its more clear to me.

Jenny - I know how you would have felt after seeing someone being abused like this - especially the police. We have had incidents in Agra ( they do not appear in the media - I know about them since I am a local ), some really shameful ones.

What the policeman did was pretty decent I think. God knows what would have happened to those perverts had they been sent in Lock up. They got a few slaps, and that will teach them a good lesson.

Sam - If I were in your place, I would have blown my fuse and would have probably landed a couple myself.

Well - these incidents can happen anywhere, it's sad it happened in India. Hope its forgotten by you, Looking forward to the rest of your journey

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Originally Posted by TheOne® View Post
The boys are forced into some funny position - arms through their legs from behind, holding their ears with their hands and butt high up.

I stare at this scene incredulously. It is a position that cannot be maintained for long, it needs a lot of strength but every time one of those fellows even dares to relax a bit or lowers his butt for a couple of centimetres, one of the policemen comes and beats his back with a baton WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK.
I do not mean to sound barbaric or wierd, But I find this part very funny

The sods deserve it. It's called ' murga ' or Chicken Position.

There are schools where this punishment is still given to kids like this and houses where parents tell their kids to be like this for a few minutes if they have disobeyed them. Welcome to Incredible India !!!!

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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Call me a pessimist - but I would love to get views on whether the cops would have acted the way they did , if it was an Indian woman in place of Jenny ?
Probably not so strongly, but yes nevertheless they would have.

Last edited by vkochar : 13th April 2008 at 10:50.
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Old 13th April 2008, 12:08   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Call me a pessimist - but I would love to get views on whether the cops would have acted the way they did , if it was an Indian woman in place of Jenny ?
If it was a woman, the result would have been the same whether she was a desi or firang would not matter but yes it might have been milder than what happened here but there would be strict action nevertheless. And remember this is the CISF not your regular Police.

But if it was someone taking pictures of you & you compalined, it might have been different of course!!

Even in Delhi I've seen two rowdies being publically punished for eve teasing a girl who was with her boyfriend. The Police punished them so severely that leave alone the perpetrators, even those watching in the public would think 100 times before even thinking of doing something like that.
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:01   #260
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Quote:
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We walk in silence. I didn’t want this to happen. I know I did the right thing. They have been taught a lesson and they will tell every one of their peers not to harass the foreigners again.
Sam you didnt want this to happen, but you did the right thing. Yes they got beaten (a lot more than was warranted, probably) but hey sometimes you have to make an example out of what you get.

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But I did not want TheOne® to leave with this memory. But it’s happened now.
Thats the sad part, but well it is a valuable lesson too.
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:20   #261
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
This is for "TheOne" - Jenny, I am really sorry you had to face such an awkward situation. I know it's difficult for you to understand how certain things are dealt with in our country. I am sure you will begin to understand better once you move here.

It's not that the authorities are inhumane. From experience they have understood to tackle a situation given the circumsatnces and people invovled. Thats just the way it works.
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Jenny, I had not replied all along while enjoying this thread. But I have to say this. Sam did the right thing, he caught some sick people and handed over to the police. For once police too did the right thing and handled the situation in the only way these sick people could be cured. Next time these people will think very hard before pulling out the camera in the wrong place. In the Indian cultural context, this kind of fear works very well.
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Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
I had to comment on this incident. Sam what you did was perfectly correct and was as per the situation demanded.
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Sam - the very fact that you controlled your rage was a very good thing.

Jenny - Don't worry about the boys, as everyone has said here - that kind of fear works in India.
Okay, I needed to comment on all of this:
I agree with you, Sam did the right thing. I am glad he did not destroy the phone, end up in a fight himself or anything like that.

I am merely shocked by the way of handling things through the police. As I said, something like this would be impossible in Germany. We have a different way of looking at things, probably also due to our past of WW II. You cannot touch or slap anyone - you cannot even call him something like MC or BC! Forget it!

That is the problem I am having. This and the fact that things like that may happen to one part of society but are unthinkable for the other part due to the different life status of the people. This is something that makes my heart bleed! It is not fair!

But ja, I do understand a lot about where those methods come from. Of course, Sam and I discussed those things afterwards among the two of us and with a few other people who we told about this. I understand your cultural background is very different. I thought about it a lot. In Germany, to get some good result out of it and to prevent people from doing it again, we have different methods, easy as that.

In Germany you may:

1. have to pay a fine.
2. You may get prohibited to enter the place where it happened for a lifetime
3. You may get an official warning - depending on the gravity of the incident. That means, every future employer will have notice of that, so you better watch it as you may not get hired easily anymore or you have to have some really good explanation.
Also, every policeman in the country has it in his records should you ever be involved in some other incident again - so the penalty next time will be a different one.
4. You are made to do a certain amount of charity work - clean the streets, help out in hospitals, etc. etc.
5. If you have a certain title, gained from your education, you may lose it - of course, also depending on the gravity and form of crime - maybe not really applicable in this case.

So I see and understand that many of those ways of handling matters are not possible here, I have been explained in details. Things work differently here. Whereas we have many many ways of threatening people and do not have to beat them up, things in India can often not be handled differently in order to achieve the desired effect and to prevent people from misbehaving.
Still I think it is not right, sorry! I am aware that this country has many other problems to solve first, but in my opinion this is something that should be worked on as well. Of course, this is nothing that can be done in one go - to achieve something like that needs a change of system probably and a lot of work.

So, end of this unfortunate topic! lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by vkochar View Post
I do not mean to sound barbaric or wierd, But I find this part very funny

The sods deserve it. It's called ' murga ' or Chicken Position.
Have you actually tried it yourself? I did, when I told my siblings about it to show them what I meant. I cannot even do it! Showed me a lot about my physical condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Sam - I would have done exactly what you did. It's a shame this had to happen on your wonderful holiday, but I hope the rest your travels more than made up for this fiasco.
For sure, we still got to see wonderful places. And especially all the wonderful people we still got to meet made more than up for it!

Last edited by TheOne® : 13th April 2008 at 13:33.
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:23   #262
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Sam, you did the right thing. It was very nice of Jenny to forgive them in the end. If it had been me, i would have wanted those jerks to spend at least a couple of nights in the lockup, if not the entire week.

Pervs, like them give our country a bad name.

Jenny, sorry that you had to go through this horrible experience.
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:25   #263
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Jenny,

there will arguments and counter arguments - but it's happened and lets put that to rest.

Now show us some more pictures of your wonderful trip and please continue with the travelogue. you said you would be faster on Saturday and Sunday. For us Sunday has almost come to an end.

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Old 13th April 2008, 13:27   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
OK here is the picture lol Attachment 8210
Now THIS is what i call a true ROAKSTAR !!
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:39   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
lurker - I can assure you those guys will not be taking any more photos of firang chokris again. I may not agree with the method but it wont happen again.
So in their case, it has helped.
If I had to take them to the station and they had been let off, they would have laughed at me and taken a photo of the next firang.

Lurker put yourself in my shoes. Imagine walking with your woman and these men taking pictures of her at point blank range. Now tell me, would you have done anything different from me? Woould you have let them go? Or asked the policeman not to hit them? What can the CISF do? Fine them? They can't pay!! There is no designated fine for taking a picture like that.
Lock them up? 6 weeks in a CISF lock up?

What would you have me do?

And I do not think it was a show-off trick. That is simply not a nice thing to say. Right or wrong, both the policemen sympathised with my anger and felt my indignation. They had nobody to show off to. This was all done in a closed room, not in public.
Totally agree with sam ! I had faced a similar situation though with some of our friends in Goa , We didnt have the "*****" to fight the locals so hats off to you for teaching them a lesson and am glad that police did their part .
These young perverts may not deserve such a harsh treatment but am sure who ever witnessed the whole scene is going to think twice before making such a stupid move.
Well done Sam !
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:42   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Jenny,

there will arguments and counter arguments - but it's happened and lets put that to rest.

Now show us some more pictures of your wonderful trip and please continue with the travelogue. you said you would be faster on Saturday and Sunday. For us Sunday has almost come to an end.

I agree, lets put it to rest. That's why I also said "end of this unfortunate topic". Everything is said and explained I think. Two different worlds, two different cultures - all you need is tolerance. End of story!

Faster on the weekend: hey, I wrote a lot yesterday lol. Don't you agree?

I am waiting for my lovely boyfriend to come back home and be ready to make his post as well. The next part definitely needs the pictures WITH the story, sorry!
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Old 13th April 2008, 13:46   #267
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I've been reading all of Sam's Yeti<XYZ travelogues and this beats them all hands down. Great to read about the same experiences but from different perspective.
Jenny,
It is unfortunate that you've have had to face such crass behavior but like the others have said, it serves them right. Perverts must be a small %age of the population but the population itself being so large and uncontrolled, we see all these perverts in the open!
Sam,
Who says chivalry is dead, what you did was very apt, it was the only right thing to do.
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Old 13th April 2008, 16:40   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne® View Post
I agree, lets put it to rest. That's why I also said "end of this unfortunate topic". Everything is said and explained I think. Two different worlds, two different cultures - all you need is tolerance. End of story!

!
Hadnt read that post before . Am sorry and I apologise for the same.
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Old 13th April 2008, 17:21   #269
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Hadnt read that post before . Am sorry and I apologise for the same.
Oh no no, please there is no need to apologise. This is a public forum, Sam and I are writing about our vacation to share it with all of you and we welcome your posts, all of them!

I was more referring to myself when I said everything is said and explained, end of this unfortunate topic.
Everyone of you was so kind to tell me it was the right thing to do by Sam and why it was necessary. Everyone was so helpful in providing me with a better understanding of your culture in this context. And I really appreciate this. I was just trying to explain my own background for an equal understanding. That was it!

Soon to come now: the story of TheCouple® at some ancient fort, wandering upon the paths of the past.
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Old 13th April 2008, 20:27   #270
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Has the Yeti gone into hibernation or something? A whole page of posts and nothing from him. Is this like "INTERVAL" time?

Last edited by wheeler : 13th April 2008 at 20:29.
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