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Old 5th May 2008, 17:07   #31
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Fortunately Rome survived. But there are many cities which were lost. Hampi is one of them.
Time to update your knowledge: Lost city - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your comparison of Rome (surviving city) vs Hampi (lost city) is not so intelligent.
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
Re: your 2nd comment, Rome has been the scene of internicine battles and power struggles through the millenia,,including WWII. The city still survives, unlike this mediocre , run-of-mill South Indian architecture ridden monstrocity of a failure named Hampi. "Protecting the South" indeed!. This so-called "Empire" could not even protect the Karnatak region. My sincere comment that your write-up about this place and the photos you have posted don't match, still stands.

Last edited by diabloo : 5th May 2008 at 17:09.
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Old 5th May 2008, 17:23   #32
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
My comment was not "careless". It is my view and i'm entitled to it.

Re: your 2nd comment, Rome has been the scene of internicine battles and power struggles through the millenia,,including WWII. The city still survives, unlike this mediocre , run-of-mill South Indian architecture ridden monstrocity of a failure named Hampi. "Protecting the South" indeed!. This so-called "Empire" could not even protect the Karnatak region. My sincere comment that your write-up about this place and the photos you have posted don't match, still stands. Nothing personal.Regards.
Well, I don't understand your hatred towards Hampi, but then you are entitled to it.

Domingo Paes said this about Hampi "what I saw seemed as large as Rome and very beautiful to the sight it is undoubtedly the best provided city in the world". (History Of Hampi)

The Italian visitor Nicolo Conti said "The great city of Bizenegalia is situated near very steep mountains. The circumference of the city is sixty miles; its walls are carried up to the mountains and enclose the valleys at their foot, so that its extent is thereby increased. In this city there are estimated to be ninety thousand men fit to bear arms." (HampiOnline.com, Hampi Vijayanagara Chroniclers, Nicolo De Conti)

The above two gentlemen actually had seen Hampi and Rome. Hope you don't mind if we take their word over yours.
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Old 5th May 2008, 17:40   #33
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Well, I don't understand your hatred towards Hampi, but then you are entitled to it.

Domingo Paes said this about Hampi "what I saw seemed as large as Rome and very beautiful to the sight it is undoubtedly the best provided city in the world". (History Of Hampi)

The Italian visitor Nicolo Conti said "The great city of Bizenegalia is situated near very steep mountains. The circumference of the city is sixty miles; its walls are carried up to the mountains and enclose the valleys at their foot, so that its extent is thereby increased. In this city there are estimated to be ninety thousand men fit to bear arms." (HampiOnline.com, Hampi Vijayanagara Chroniclers, Nicolo De Conti)

The above two gentlemen actually had seen Hampi and Rome. Hope you don't mind if we take their word over yours.
I've seen Rome. If i'm passing through, i wouldn't mind a tour of Hampi.IMHO, there is no comparison. I just resent the false aggrandizements. Please keep it real. Thank you. I would appreciate your thread much better. For it is, or purported to be, a travelog.

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Old 5th May 2008, 17:43   #34
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I've seen Rome. If i'm passing through, i wouldn't mind a tour of Hampi.IMHO, there is no comparison.
It is about seeing both the cities at that point of time. The two gentlemen whom Samurai is referring to saw both these cities in their full grandeur and made those comments.

Seeing these cities in ruins might be a completely different experience.
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Old 5th May 2008, 17:53   #35
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
I've seen Rome. If i'm passing through, i wouldn't mind a tour of Hampi.
Good luck finding a time machine.

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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
I just resent the false aggrandizements. Please keep it real. Thank you. I would appreciate your thread much better. For it is, or purported to be, a travelog.
I am quoting from historical documents, so I am keeping it real as possible. If it doesn't match with your preconceived notions, I can't help it.
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Old 5th May 2008, 17:53   #36
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Samurai san, another great travelouge from you. Awaiting the final part!
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Old 5th May 2008, 22:49   #37
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Rome has been the scene of internicine battles and power struggles through the millenia,,including WWII. The city still survives
Indeed rome has seen many internicine battles but they never destroyed their heritage the way Indians did in medieval india. the battles are for power.the party/person who won the battle did not destroy what he won in the battle(Rome)

Modern day wanton destruction is destruction of Bamiyan Buddha's by Taliban. Taliban were in control of the area . they are getting revenue from these. still they choose to dynamite them. this is called wanton destruction.

Rome was never subjected to such things. But Hampi was.

The guys who have seen both the places in 15 th century has specifically mentioned Hampi surpasses Rome for Sheer grandeur and majesty. the original transcript in Porchugese was available in Mumbai.

Just check the water circulation system for Queen's bath and Octagonal bath, for Virupaksha temple, Stone pillers which gave musical sounds- did rome have any such things in 1300-1500 AD?

Last edited by rkg : 5th May 2008 at 22:50.
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Old 5th May 2008, 23:17   #38
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Its funny comparing an existing city to one in ruins.
Most ruins are made of broken collapsing buildings, irrespective of the fact whether the rulers there played in gold, or were naked barbarians.
Indus Valley civilization, Babylon... etc., all of them at their time were the cradles of humanity in their times.
But saying. "San Fransisco is better because if exists and Indus valley civilization does not" is really weird.
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Old 5th May 2008, 23:48   #39
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Amazing! Samu this travelogue is breathtaking with those amazing photographs and vivid narrations. Maybe this will be my next drive-destination.
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Old 6th May 2008, 01:30   #40
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The capital city of Hampi was not exactly a safe place most of the time. Since the empire was in constant state of battle with Sultans of Golkonda and Bijapura, often the battle spilled into the capital city. Despite their overwhelming superiority in wealth and military power over the Sultans, they often lost and had to pay temporary compensation or tribute until the next battle. King Deva Raya II (1419-1442) held an enquiry to understand these failures. It was concluded that Vijayanagara horses and archers were quite inferior to that of their enemies. Therefore he ordered the creation of huge archery corps consisting of 62,000 archers. But horses couldn’t be improved upon.

It was only in the time of Krishna Deva Raya they become too strong for their enemies. The ascent of Krishna Deva Raya in 1509 coincided with the arrival of Portuguese in Goa. Although they had made multiple military forays into India for few years, they had finally realised there was more profit in commerce than pillage. Besides, they had just come to acknowledge the existence of this great empire. Krishna Deva Raya bought the exclusive rights to all European horses imported by Portuguese. In return, after chasing the Bijapura Sultan into exile, he offered Goa to Portuguese. In hindsight, this was a very cruel act. But you can’t entirely blame KDR here, he really didn’t know what Portuguese would do with this carte blanche. He only wanted to ensure nobody else got access to the excellent European steeds. These horses totally solidified his cavalry and his knights, they become virtually unbeatable.

Let’s get back to the travelogue now. Previous day, our guide had informed that several places have to be visited by foot and will involve 2-3 hours of walking. Preferably that should be covered in the morning, before the sun got too strong. So we decided to come early in the morning and beat the sun.

Day 3
We woke up early and managed to reach Hampi bus stand by 9AM. The guide was waiting along with a horde of other guides, there was almost of stampede when the GV was sighted by them. There was a confused moment for them when our guide silently opened the passenger door and got in.
Today we crossed the Sasivekalu Ganesha and climbed the hill next to it.

This hill is known as Hemakuta hill. (Hemakuta Hill | Hampi)

That is Sasivekalu Ganesha and Krishna temple (in the background)

Hampi: Visiting the Forgotten Empire of Vijayanagara-_1135504.jpg

From the top of the Hemakuta hill, one can sight many temples.

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This is Virupaksha temple from the top.

Hampi: Visiting the Forgotten Empire of Vijayanagara-_1135510.jpg

We climbed down from the other side, and turned towards Virupaksha temple. (Virupaksha Temple | Hampi)
This temple has been around for 1400 years, worshipped continuously making it one of the oldest temples in India. Even during the razing operation in 1565, the looters left this place alone. According to our guide, there was a huge symbol of a boar (Varaha, KDR’s logo) in the arch of the temple. The looters mistook it for a pig and refused to enter the place. Nice story though. Since it is a functioning temple, no photography or shoes allowed. After walking for nearly an hour carrying the baby, diaper bag and camera bag, we had no patience for removing and putting back footwear. What can I say, my wife and I are not that religious. We recently visited Dharmasthala and came back without the Darshan, because of the crowd. Anyway, I am not too fond of Photo-phobic places, so we didn’t bother to enter and just paid our respects from outside.

As we came out, we entered Hampi Bazaar (Hampi Bazaar). It is mostly taken over by modern shops and hotels, but one can see the fusion of old and new buildings.

See this a current slum blended into 500 year old stone bazaar.

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After about half KM of walk, you can see new structures giving way to ancient stone bazaar.

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Soon we turned left into Kampa Bhupa path. (Kampa Bhupa's Path | Hampi)
This path goes along the Tungabhadra River. Check out the amount of stone formation here.

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This following devious looking path finally leads to Kodanda Rama Temple (Kodandarama Temple | Hampi)

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I didn’t find the destination too interesting, therefore I shot nothing there.

So we got back to the Hampi Bazaar, and continued further. At the end of the road, we found the Monolithic Bull pavilion.

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The monolithic bull (Monolithic Bull | Hampi)

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This path next to the pavilion leads Achyuta Raya's Temple, but we didn’t continue, the kids were tired by this time.

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As we turned back, we saw a bus full of foreign tourists and about 20-30 auto rickshaw drivers preying upon them from 50ft distance. Couple of cops stood firmly between them. Apparently the auto drivers would pounce upon the unsuspecting tourists to harass them in the absence of cops. I wondered what kind of ridiculous ritual is this, I mean it looked really silly.

We finally got out of Hampi bazaar and started walking towards the car, then we found a big a parking lot on the left and a restroom sign. After confirming with the guide that the place was clean, we walked towards it, and guess what, it was not a free toilet. Anyway, that stop was a great relief.

As we continued towards the Hampi bus stand where we had parked our car, we came across Kadalekalu (Bengalgram) Ganesha. (Kadalekalu Ganesha | Hampi)

The Kadalekalu Ganesha is an imposing structure on a high ground.

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Hampi: Visiting the Forgotten Empire of Vijayanagara-_1135533.jpg

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Coming back to Portuguese, they were up to no good. Check this quote from Robert Sewell:
Quote:
Throughout the whole of their dealings with the Portuguese I find not a single instance where the Hindu kings broke faith with the intruders,[287] but as much cannot, I fear, be said on the other side. The Europeans seemed to think that they had a divine right to the pillage, robbery, and massacre of the natives of India. Not to mince matters, their whole record is one of a series of atrocities. It is sad to turn from the description given us by Paes of the friendship felt for the Portuguese, and especially for Christovao de Figueiredo, by the "gallant and perfect" King Krishna Deva, and then to read of the treachery of the Viceroy towards the great Hindu Government; with which the Portuguese had made alliances and treaties, and for which they openly professed friendship. Thus, to take one instance only, in 1545 the governor of Goa made ready a large fleet and a force of 3000 men, but kept all his preparations secret, for very good reason. His object was to sail round the coast to San Thome, near Madras, land his troops, march inland, and sack the great temple of Tirumala or Tirupati, purely for lust of gain. Luckily a severe storm prevented him from setting said, but he plundered and destroyed some rich temples on the western coast, and enriched himself with the spoil.
So Tirupati escaped this attack because of a storm, divine intervention I suppose.

Further quotes from Robert Sewell:
Quote:
In 1558 Dom Constantine de Braganza became Viceroy of Goa, and his period of government was signalised by every kind of violence and aggression. In 1559 Luiz de Mello carried fire and sword into the towns along the Malabar coast. He attacked Mangalore, set fire to the town, and put all the inhabitants to death. Later in the year he destroyed in similar manner a number of towns and villages on the same coast, and desolated the whole seaboard.
When I read this passage, the hair on my neck shivered. My ancestral home (at least 3 rooms of it) is 600 years old and must have existed during this time, considering it is barely 5KMs from the sea, I wondered how they were affected by it.

Quote:
In 1560 the See of Goa was elevated into an arch-bishopric, and the Inquisition, the horrors of which even excelled that of Spain, was established. The inhabitants of Goa and its dependencies were now forced to embrace Christianity, and on refusal or contumacy were imprisoned and tortured. In this year also, and those following, the predatory excursions of the Portuguese were continued.
This was the biggest trajedy caused by KDR’s gift of Goa to Portuguese. There were public torture machines in the street which would stretch people limb to limb. As a result of this inquisition, the people of Konkon emigrated in great numbers, that explains the presence of Konkani speakers along the coast all the way to Kerala. It completely altered the demography along the region. Even now lots of Konkani families visit Goa once a year to worship at their original temple.

Quote:
In 1564 the Viceroy sent Mesquita with three ships to destroy a number of ships belonging to the Malabarese. Mesquita captured twenty-four of these, by twos and threes at a time, sunk them, beheaded a large number of the sailors, and in the case of hundreds of others, sewed them up in sails and threw them overboard. In these ways he massacred 2000 men.
This resulted in a serious war in Malabar, as the wretched inhabitants of the country; driven to desperation, determined at all hazards to destroy the ruthless invaders of their land. The Portuguese were attacked at Cannanore, and a series of desperate struggles took place, in the course of which Noronha, the commandant, desolated the country and ruined many people by cutting down forty thousand palm trees. At last, however, peace was made.
The Portuguese continuously laid waste the entire western coast from Goa to Kochi emboldened by the concessions given to them rulers right from KDR and his descendents. As long as European horses were delivered exclusively to Vijayanagara, the Portuguese could get away with murdering the citizens of the same empire.

Thankfully Portuguese had to pay the price for this in an ironic way. Since they allied themselves very close to Vijayanagara, they had continuously gained the hatred of the Sultans of Bijapura. When Vijayanagara was decimated in 1565, that spelled the end of Portuguese power in India. They could never recover from that blow thanks to Marathas and British, and remained restricted to Goa for next four centuries before they were kicked out by the modern republic of India.

To be continued

Last edited by Samurai : 6th May 2008 at 09:56.
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Old 6th May 2008, 02:39   #41
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Wow. Amazing just amazing. The pictures are very good but what takes the breathe away is the narrative. You just made Indian history so much more interesting. Really forces you to read the recommended book. Though at some point it saddens you to think of all that was lost. The pictures where the elephants used to stay is really an eye opener and actually says so much about the power of that civilization.

It feels so good to see an Indian heritage site so well maintained with so much history available. Kudos to ASI for keeping so neat and clean. Back home in Rajasthan we have so many monuments and forts. Each with so much history but alas, its all lost in time. Also wish that the monuments were as well maintained as this one. Really changes how one views the place.
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Old 6th May 2008, 07:50   #42
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Just check the water circulation system for Queen's bath and Octagonal bath, for Virupaksha temple, Stone pillers which gave musical sounds- did rome have any such things in 1300-1500 AD?
Actually aquaducts and baths were one area where Romans were way ahead. They had huge network of aquaducts that were longer than 100 miles, working completely by gravity. They dropped in incline by 1 finger width every 100 yards. They had water engineers all over the empire to maintain these network of aquaducts. They even had billing system. And that was more than 2000 years back. Check out the historic novel Pompeii by Robert Harris.

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Amazing! Samu this travelogue is breathtaking with those amazing photographs and vivid narrations. Maybe this will be my next drive-destination.
Thanks, it is not too far from Hyderabad, you can make it in a day.

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Wow. Amazing just amazing. The pictures are very good but what takes the breathe away is the narrative. You just made Indian history so much more interesting. Really forces you to read the recommended book.
Thanks man, I am a history buff, I like talking about history.

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It feels so good to see an Indian heritage site so well maintained with so much history available. Kudos to ASI for keeping so neat and clean.
That started only few decades back. Before that, for 400 years this was free for all. You can find lots of sugarcane fields criss-crossing the Hampi ruins. The government has been trying for many years to re-possess Hampi back from all the land owners. Since the encroaching happened over centuries, it is not so easy, they have to be properly compensated and re-located. Also, for centuries all the houses and other buildings in the area freely borrowed the nicely cut stones from Hampi to build their homes. There is history in lots of houses there.
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Old 6th May 2008, 11:04   #43
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Very well narrated trip log. I am feeling as if I visited Humpi. Thanks Samurai.
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Old 6th May 2008, 13:03   #44
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Wonderful picto-logue. hampi moves up my to-do list of destinations!
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Old 6th May 2008, 13:56   #45
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Actually its quite surprising that a lot of folks in Karnataka have not visited Hampi. I guess its because of the distance involved and probably the heat factor in summer !!

A lot of South India had been systematically raided by Muslims invaders starting from Malik Kafur. But none have been more completely destroyed than Hampi. Almost all other places that were destroyed were rebuilt. But Hampi was probably too big and for all reasons too much decimated to ever be rebuilt.
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