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Old 25th January 2006, 01:05   #1
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Default Why do we get carried away with the looks of big ,huge alloys ?

I 've always been reading in this forum ,people asking for the Tyres/Alloys size upgrade ..

Now we all know going for such upgrade would not have a good affect on the suspension and the ride quality ,still we blindly go for it and the end result is ,sooner or later we start complaining about the ride quality !

I know those big tyres/alloys look great but why do we forget that when the manufacturers are providing good/decent tyres as OE ,they aint fools ,they know what the car actually requires and what would serve the purpose .

I know many of you would say ,we 've to find the right tyre/alloys size upgrade for the car and that would not have an impact on the ride quality and so on but i would like to differ with them slightly .. let me tell you why ..

I Purchased the Octavia in june 2002 ,the version was Ambiente(with no alloys) .. I was looking for the after market alloys as the original ones were very expensive .. I had to wait for 3 months before i could get them cos the car(skoda as a brand) was new in the market and no body was ready to import the alloys ..

After its availability ,i got the 15in alloys fitted on the same OE tyres and the day i got those fitted ,i have to admit , i lost that exemplary ride quality ,by no means it was bad but yes it did suffer slightly ..
Now i was kinda surprised cos 15 inchers are meant for the Octavia and the co. itself recommends the same ,so why i had to compromise ,the reason being the configuration of those alloys were not what Skoda actually reccomends ..

I would say if you dont wanna compromise on the Ride quality(atleast i dont wanna) ,you should stick to the original tyres/alloys or you could always buy the same size alloys in the markets ..

P.s The above is based on what i 've actually felt and experienced many times but i may be wrong as i dont think i have much f knowledge about these stuffs ,so all those gurus who disagree please do enlighten the facts .

Thanx.

Last edited by Beemer : 25th January 2006 at 01:22.
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Old 25th January 2006, 02:05   #2
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why do we forget that when the manufacturers are providing good/decent tyres as OE ,they aint fools ,they know what the car actually requires and what would serve the purpose .
Think again.Manufacturers give bare necessity and grip levels are poor.Moreover, tube types are dangerous.
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Old 25th January 2006, 02:36   #3
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I agree ,there are some mnfrs but mostly do give you good enough nowadays ...
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Old 25th January 2006, 03:17   #4
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Dude, I'm sorry, but most Indian car tyres SUCK.

Below 10 lakhs, I can only think of the Optra and the Elantra whose tyres are ok. Everything else is PATHETIC. The stock Bridgestone S322 which came OE on everything from the Santro to the Accent to the OHC is the worst tyre in existence. The Corolla was also a piece of crap as far as tyres went. And Nitrous is right, tubed tyres are unsafe.

Are you specifically talking with reference to Delhi, where people may be relentlessly oversizing tyres and wheels? But please remember, most cars, when sold in India, have tyres that are atleast 1 inch smaller than abroad.
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Old 25th January 2006, 03:42   #5
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V1p3r buddy ,i dont know much about the small cars but i thought the C and D segments cars were equipped with good quality tyres .

However ,if thats not the case ,then instead of buying the same spec. tyres ,why do we go for the oversized ,why dont we stick to the same size ? i mean i dont see any use

2) I am not so much against the wide/broad(whatever you call it) tyres but what i am failed to understand is Why do we go for the bigger alloys instead of knowing its not good for the suspension and the ride would suffer immensly ?

No offence to anyoine but i find it it rediculous to spend those extra pennz and getting back the harsh ,bumpy ride quality in return .. Its of no use unless you weere really keen to improve the handling at the expense of the ride .
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Old 25th January 2006, 10:26   #6
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Gettin an upsize wouldn't be much of a problem. The probs start when u go way overboard...
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Old 25th January 2006, 10:45   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer
After its availability ,i got the 15in alloys fitted on the same OE tyres and the day i got those fitted ,i have to admit , i lost that exemplary ride quality ,by no means it was bad but yes it did suffer slightly ..
Now i was kinda surprised cos 15 inchers are meant for the Octavia and the co. itself recommends the same ,so why i had to compromise ,the reason being the configuration of those alloys were not what Skoda actually reccomends
Hey, you are saying you kept the original tires and swapped rims with aftermarket ones. So how did your ride quality suffer? Please give some more details on the problem faced. as long as they were 5 hole 100pcd and fitted your car within the right offset limits what other specifications form the company did the aftermarket rims not meet?

The only problem that can crop up is balancing for which i guess your tire guy would not have installed balancing rings on your hub which is necessary for the octy with the earlier imported rims. Anything else besides that?

Arush
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Old 25th January 2006, 11:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer
I 've always been reading in this forum ,people asking for the Tyres/Alloys size upgrade ..

Now we all know going for such upgrade would not have a good affect on the suspension and the ride quality ,still we blindly go for it and the end result is ,sooner or later we start complaining about the ride quality !

I know those big tyres/alloys look great but why do we forget that when the manufacturers are providing good/decent tyres as OE ,they aint fools ,they know what the car actually requires and what would serve the purpose .

P.s The above is based on what i 've actually felt and experienced many times but i may be wrong as i dont think i have much f knowledge about these stuffs ,so all those gurus who disagree please do enlighten the facts .

Thanx.
Don't worry about your knowledge, Beemer. It is spot-on, I assure you!

Manufacturers do not make the typical Indian family saloon for the race track.
They are made for normal city roads, with the occasional loose road metal of heterogenous sizes.

In the rare event that you happen to only drive on mirror-flat roads (such as race-tracks and expressways), you can afford:

1. Very low ground clearance.
The lowering of center-of-gravity will benefit stability tremendously.

2. Very low profile, very wide tires.
Now you've restricted yourself to huge wheels to maintain a sensible overall outer diameter(OD).

This will let you take corners at much higher speeds. And since the race-track is free of pebbles, it won't rattle your teeth and bones and other things.

Ferraris, Maseratis and Aston Martins are made for the race track and race-track-quality roads. So they have low ground clearance, low profile Z-rated directional radials and huge alloys.

We see pictures of these cars, get "alloy-happy" and mindlessly equip our four-door economy saloons with "upsized" big alloys and low-profile wide tires. Just to match the looks. And then we suffer rattly rides wondering why?

Last edited by Ram : 25th January 2006 at 11:59.
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Old 25th January 2006, 13:28   #9
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Interesting thoughts there, Beemer.

I've often wondered about the mindless urge to upsize tyres as soon as one buys a car. Changing the brand makes sense because the OE Bridgestones on most cars are horrible...but upsizing and putting on alloys - thats more of a fad.

BTW I just had my Safari tyres changed. No upsize, just broader (255 in place of 235) soft-compound tyres in place of the OE Bridgestones which were noisy and pathetic as far as grip was concerned.
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Old 25th January 2006, 13:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
Below 10 lakhs, I can only think of the Optra and the Elantra whose tyres are ok. Everything else is PATHETIC
And now maybe the Baleno VXi .. hehe !
185/65 R14 Goodyear Eagle NCT 5.

This thread has me thinking .. when a manufacturer upsizes the OEM tyres/wheels do they tweak the suspension and related bits ? Maybe some do, but would Maruti ??
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Old 25th January 2006, 13:39   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Interesting thoughts there, Beemer.

I've often wondered about the mindless urge to upsize tyres as soon as one buys a car. Changing the brand makes sense because the OE Bridgestones on most cars are horrible...but upsizing and putting on alloys - thats more of a fad.


We love our cars as much as we like them and its sort of that feel i think. Its imprinted in our minds to get excited with fat tyres and alloys. Big Fat tyres always look gud on cars and hey it also should compliment the car though. Not like Sam Fox mind u and u know what i meant right .


Unless and until the manufacturer has done some real compromise in quality and cost cutting. I dont think car tyres need a genuine upsizing.
Maybe, in the entry level and mid sized cars it may have some real benefit.

Last edited by muni : 25th January 2006 at 13:40.
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Old 25th January 2006, 13:39   #12
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I believe that even when we go in for an upsize in india we make these mistakes:-
1. We do not get any suspension work done (very expensive), spindles,arms, etc etc (i am a manufacturer/exporter of custom suspension parts)
2. Without the above the clearance reduces then we tend to go in for a lower profile which means you have less tread between the road and you seated above.
3. iIve been/driven in lowered and customised rides abroad and believe me suspension always becomes rough...............you have to be ready for that. Even on the smoothest roads a lowering of even an inch will make you feel every bump and nick on the road + compounded with lower profiles tyres.
4. Suv's in the Usa are also lowered at times and many a times lifted as well upto 4" and believe me that is quite a lot!!

The best alternative is to go just one size above and make sure the tyre does not scrape the body of the car if fully turned..........that is the correct size you can go to. I have 15" on my elantra but my wheel size is R15/50 225, and the turning circle of my car is not affected. However i get to feel every bump and pot hole !! But then again i knew when i put that size on (and i wasn't even upsizing as the stock elantra comes with 15" alloys too)

Last edited by Beeman : 25th January 2006 at 13:44.
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Old 25th January 2006, 13:54   #13
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After its availability ,i got the 15in alloys fitted on the same OE tyres and the day i got those fitted ,i have to admit , i lost that exemplary ride quality ,by no means it was bad but yes it did suffer slightly ..
Now i was kinda surprised cos 15 inchers are meant for the Octavia and the co. itself recommends the same ,so why i had to compromise ,the reason being the configuration of those alloys were not what Skoda actually reccomends ..
As mentioned by Arush, something has obviously gone wrong with the selection of alloys or the mounting of them.

Quote:
I've often wondered about the mindless urge to upsize tyres as soon as one buys a car. Changing the brand makes sense because the OE Bridgestones on most cars are horrible...but upsizing and putting on alloys - thats more of a fad.
A lot depends on what the person driving wants out of the car. Personally, I feel the 15" wheels are too small for the Octi. The 16"ers that come one the RS are perfect. The difference in handling has to be felt to be believed and I really didn't notice any difference in ride quality.

Also, especially in India, most companies give undersized tyres. The Baleno is a prime example of this. Running 13" wheels on that car is foolish!

So upsizing in many cases is not a mindless exercise and does give significant advantages over the OE wheel/tyre size. And yes, one of the reasons are looks, and anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.

Ofcourse, when you see a Swift with 18" wheels or a Skoda with 20" spinners, thats a whole different ball game.

Quote:
BTW I just had my Safari tyres changed. No upsize, just broader (255 in place of 235)
The DICOR comes with 16" rims anyway right? Wouldn't want to go larger than that!! P.s what profile are your tyres?
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Old 25th January 2006, 14:10   #14
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Quote:

After its availability ,i got the 15in alloys fitted on the same OE tyres and the day i got those fitted ,i have to admit , i lost that exemplary ride quality ,by no means it was bad but yes it did suffer slightly ..
There is no reason why your ride quality should suffer if you retained the original tyres. Unless something is terribly wrong with your alloy wheel (PCD etc.)

Quote:
Now we all know going for such upgrade would not have a good affect on the suspension and the ride quality ,still we blindly go for it and the end result is ,sooner or later we start complaining about the ride quality !
Its not a given. In some cases, the ride quality actually improves due to the softer rubber of imported tyres. Also, I personally prefer my ride quality as a little more firm and composed compared to the soft set-up.

Quote:
I know those big tyres/alloys look great but why do we forget that when the manufacturers are providing good/decent tyres as OE ,they aint fools ,they know what the car actually requires and what would serve the purpose .
Manufacturers will always spec cars keeping local requirements in mind. In India, Fuel efficiency is a major motivation behind car purchases. Thats why, until very recently, you saw an 85bhp Esteem with 155 mm tyres and a 106 bhp Vtec with tubed 175 mm tyres. Broader tyres generally offer more rolling resistance and subsequently, a drop in fuel efficiency. Cost is another factor in manufacturers offering tyres that are seriously incapable of managing the cars power.

I dont care about FE and neither do I about the cost. But yet, handling is very important to me. Thats why I choose to upgrade my tyres.

Think about it - International variants of these cars came with much better equipped rubber. Surely, there was a reason behind them too?

That said, there is a difference between upsizing and oversizing. IMHO, a 195mm patch is perfect for the Vtec yet you see so many on the road with 215's and 225's.

There is a pro and con to every situation. The wiser among us choose what is best for us after a careful analysis.

GTO

P.S. Before Rtech, Psycho, Rudra and others start harping about my Vtecs tyres, an upgrade is around the corner. For those who arent aware, each and every car in my garage has upsized rubber except for the Vtec which still runs on stock S322s.
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Old 25th January 2006, 14:19   #15
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what happens when:

1. we increase the diameter: the ride should be smoother, because it eats the potholes better than smaller tyres. right?
2. decrease the dia: lowered center of gravity, should give a better handling on race tracks. (may also give better FE because of less rotational inertia, may be that's why indian cars have smaller tyres)

the width will only add the grip to the vehicle, right?

and suspension and everything is different issue altogether.

but are first 2 points correct?
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