Tyre Upgrade for the Swift

[sriturl]

I recently upgraded to 185/70/14 on my 2008 Vdi, and did first drive to Hyderabad from Bangalore. I got a pathetic 16 kmpl average, while i used to get 19 before with same driving pattern. I maintained 32/34 rear/front while returning.
Would there be so much difference with upsize? or something else to check for?

[akula.sreekanth]

Hi Everybody,

This is my first post in Team-BHP.com. This topic has been discussed too many times now. Please pardon me for asking same questions again. I want to know some technical reasons and that's why I'm posting again. I have booked a swift VDi and expecting delivery in the next 2-3 weeks. I would like to go for alloys and tyre upgrade.

I was thinking of upgrading to 195/65 R15. In most of the posts in this thread it has been mentioned that 195/60 R15 is the correct upgrade and 195/65 is not. Can anybody please explain me with the technical reasons?

I am pasting a comparison of four tyres below from 1010tires.com

165/80R14 is the stock in Swift VDi and 185/65R15 is the stock in Swift ZDi. The other two sizes (195/60 R15 & 195/65 R15) are for upsizing.



As per this comparison chart 185/65 R15 (stock in ZDi) is 0.3% larger in size compared to 165/80R14 (stock in VDi). 195/60R15 is 0.74% smaller than the VDi Stock. 195/65R15 is 2.4% larger than the stock in VDi. Most of the websites where I have seen the tire comparison calculations it is mentioned that the difference should be kept within 2.5% - 3%. As per this recommendation 195/65 R15 is not a bad upgrade for Swift.

I went to JC Road (lots of tire shops in B'lore) and enquired and most of the shopkeepers told me that 195/60R15 is the correct upgrade and 195/65R15 will touch the body during a bumpy ride. But the same shopkeepers told that 195/65R15 is correct upgrade for Swift ZDi (Which has 185/65 R15 stock) but for VDi 195/60R15 is the correct upgrade. And they also told that ZDi has more clearance than VDi and thus the tire won't touch the body. How true is this?? I thought ZDi and VDi had same kind of clearance and manufactured the same way (On the same assembly line) except it has other features like ABS/airbags etc. According to the comparison table above the difference in sidewall height of the tire is 9.9mm (~1 cm) and would it matter so much for a 1 cm difference that it would go and touch the body??

Another doubt is regarding the alloy wheel. From the previous posts in this thread I figured out that the stock alloy wheel of Swift ZDi is "5.5Jx15 ET 45". Can we fit a 195/** tire on this?? would it look like a balloon on this rim as the recommended rim size by most tire manufacturers is 6J.

Most of the alloy wheels I enquired in Bangalore are 6.5Jx15 ET40. would the 5mm offset difference between the stock wheel and the aftermarket wheel cause it to touch the suspension and inner body etc?

Please help me understand the whole thing.

Thanks
Sreekanth

[Schoudhury]

Originally Posted by akula.sreekanth

Hi Everybody,


I was thinking of upgrading to 195/65 R15. In most of the posts in this thread it has been mentioned that 195/60 R15 is the correct upgrade and 195/65 is not. Can anybody please explain me with the technical reasons?

Sreekanth

Sreekanth , congrats on your new Swift.
And regarding 195*65*R15, there are lot many members using the same without any issues .But only reason because of which its advised to go for 195*60 is that the 65 mm tyres might scrap with the body on full load.
Regarding the VDI and ZDI stuff , that might not be true.
5.5 J alloys should fit 195 section tyres, but for 5.5J alloys you might have to look for stock alloys, but if you are looking for alloys why not go for aftermarket alloys .

Im sure gurus can give more info on this

Hope it helps .

Cheers

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by akula.sreekanth

I was thinking of upgrading to 195/65 R15. In most of the posts in this thread it has been mentioned that 195/60 R15 is the correct upgrade and 195/65 is not. Can anybody please explain me with the technical reasons?


As per this comparison chart 185/65 R15 (stock in ZDi) is 0.3% larger in size compared to 165/80R14 (stock in VDi). 195/60R15 is 0.74% smaller than the VDi Stock. 195/65R15 is 2.4% larger than the stock in VDi. Most of the websites where I have seen the tire comparison calculations it is mentioned that the difference should be kept within 2.5% - 3%. As per this recommendation 195/65 R15 is not a bad upgrade for Swift.

in your attached image, you can see that the tyre wall height is more with the 195/65 R15. It is larger by only 1cm, yes. But it will have an effect on the handling. Shorter the profile, better the handling will be. If you compare the ride height of the 185/65 R15 and the 195/60 R15, they are almost the same, with the 195/60R15 being better for handling. It is the more logical upgrade. The ZDi size (185/65R15) is the most awkward I have ever seen on OEM sizes. Not many tyres are even made in that size.

I have booked a swift ZDi myself and I will be heading straight from the showroom to Madhu's enterprises for an upgrade to 195/60R15 michelins. This size (195/60 R15) offers the best balance in ride height, handling improvement and road grip for the Swift, without any sidewall scraping dangers. I think some members here have even gone as far as 205/55R16 for the Swift. They might have some opinions to share too.

I went to JC Road (lots of tire shops in B'lore) and enquired and most of the shopkeepers told me that 195/60R15 is the correct upgrade and 195/65R15 will touch the body during a bumpy ride.

One of my friends has a 195/65R15 on his swift. It doesn't touch the body during a bumpy ride, but it might during full load. I have driven it, and did not like the feel of those tyres with increased height.

But the same shopkeepers told that 195/65R15 is correct upgrade for Swift ZDi (Which has 185/65 R15 stock) but for VDi 195/60R15 is the correct upgrade. And they also told that ZDi has more clearance than VDi and thus the tire won't touch the body. How true is this?? I thought ZDi and VDi had same kind of clearance and manufactured the same way (On the same assembly line) except it has other features like ABS/airbags etc. According to the comparison table above the difference in sidewall height of the tire is 9.9mm (~1 cm) and would it matter so much for a 1 cm difference that it would go and touch the body??

Swift VDi = 165 / 80 R14 tyres = the profile (side wall width) will be 80% of 165mm = 132mm

Swift ZDi = 185/65 R15 tyres = profile will be 65% of 185mm = 120.25mm

There is no other difference between the VDi and ZDi related to ride height. The ZDi has a smaller profile as you can see, but will be marginally taller due to an inch bigger alloy diameter. Why does 1 cm matter so much, you may ask. Remember, the 1 cm increase is on both sides of the alloy wheel circumference, since it is the sidewall size itself. That means effectively 2cm increased (bottom 1cm and top 1cm), now with 4-5 people on board, the suspension itself may have gone down a little, say by a few cm, there is a high likelihood of tyres touching the wheel well arches when going on speedbreakers/potholes.

Another doubt is regarding the alloy wheel. From the previous posts in this thread I figured out that the stock alloy wheel of Swift ZDi is "5.5Jx15 ET 45". Can we fit a 195/** tire on this?? would it look like a balloon on this rim as the recommended rim size by most tire manufacturers is 6J.

Most of the alloy wheels I enquired in Bangalore are 6.5Jx15 ET40. would the 5mm offset difference between the stock wheel and the aftermarket wheel cause it to touch the suspension and inner body etc?

195s on 5.5J alloy rims are very much a proper and snug fit in my opinion. Perhaps 205s will be overkill for 5.5J, but 195s shouldn't be a problem. There will be no balloon effect or anything. Manufacturers allow for this much variation. Perhaps tyre guru Nikhil might be able to explain better on the tolerance values of these dimensions

I was just checking this and 195s are very much within limits for 5.5J rims
MICHELIN

[akula.sreekanth]

Originally Posted by Schoudhury

Sreekanth , congrats on your new Swift.

Thanks

5.5 J alloys should fit 195 section tyres, but for 5.5J alloys you might have to look for stock alloys, but if you are looking for alloys why not go for aftermarket alloys .

Apparently I got mislead by the salesman at the dealer where I booked the car, that the entire set of ZDi wheels for 23K by taking back the VDi stock wheels. Which apparently is not true as I found out after calling up the spares shop of the same dealer. So I would be going for after market wheels. Thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by KarthikK

One of my friends has a 195/65R15 on his swift. It doesn't touch the body during a bumpy ride, but it might during full load. I have driven it, and did not like the feel of those tyres with increased height.

I thought it will have a cushioning effect. That's the reason for thinking about 195/65.

I think some members here have even gone as far as 205/55R16 for the Swift. They might have some opinions to share too.

How about 205/60 R15. Now that I'd go for after market alloys which will be 6.5J and would fit 205 tyres I was thinking of going for 205s. But how would 205/60 compare against 205/55. Looks like the side wall height is not too different from 185/65R15 or 165/80R14. Looks like Yokohama A.drive is there in this size. 205/55R16 might be a overkill in my opinion. Has anybody tried 205/60R15 on swift? Looks like 205/60 is as good a fit to swift as 195/60R15 in terms of side wall height and profile etc. with increased width.



Thanks Karthik and Thanks Schoudhury for your valuable suggestions.

Regards
Sreekanth

[smnrock]

I'm planning to change tyres on my swift silver VDI (2007) and currently it is running xm1+. I feel xm1+ is little soft for my nature and I want little harder, so I'm not sure which one to go(xm+ or yoka a-drive)?. Also planning for new alloys and tyre size should be 195/60/R15 and my budget is 35K(alloys + 4 tyres). I'm near by indira nagar, so planning to visit sai iyengar. I need your suggestions for alloy, tyre and also the place near by indira nagar(sai is best?)

Thanks in Advance!!!

[smnrock]

Update: yesterday went to SAI in indira nagar, changed the tyre and alloy.

Yoka C drive - 4800 * 4;
Alloy(set of 5, evo) - 20000;
Bolt & Nut - 1200;

Stepney tyre(discount) - 400;

So overall paid 40K through CC!

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by smnrock

I feel xm1+ is little soft for my nature and I want little harder, so I'm not sure which one to go(xm+ or yoka a-drive)?.

Thanks in Advance!!!

You meant xm2 i guess. Yoko A drives are vfm and do their job well. They are tough and take all type of roads. I switched to them and happy after 5k on good as well as broken roads

I went to sai and ashwin is reasonable guy. You can always get quote from few dealers before deciding

[naveen.raju]

One tyre got punctured beyond repairs as the side wall cracked. Went to the local puncture shop and he offered a pair of used Yoko S Drives for just 700/-. It looks in pretty good condition but definitely not the original yokos since the thread pattern is different. Is it Chinese ?

Anyways, should I go for it? Obviously it's better than repairing the cracked tyre for which he said he needs to do a hot patch which is not always successful and comes around 550/-. Also, the tyre's thread pattern looks pretty new.

[sameerpb]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

Anyways, should I go for it? Obviously it's better than repairing the cracked tyre for which he said he needs to do a hot patch which is not always successful and comes around 550/-. Also, the tyre's thread pattern looks pretty new.

My experience with side wall hot patch is good, Tyre lasted for 2 years after the hot patch work.

[funkyp]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

One tyre got punctured beyond repairs as the side wall cracked. Went to the local puncture shop and he offered a pair of used Yoko S Drives for just 700/-. It looks in pretty good condition but definitely not the original yokos since the thread pattern is different. Is it Chinese ?

Anyways, should I go for it? Obviously it's better than repairing the cracked tyre for which he said he needs to do a hot patch which is not always successful and comes around 550/-. Also, the tyre's thread pattern looks pretty new.

Would not recommend a hot patch work. I was in a similar situation when I cut the side wall of my 2 month old yokos. Came on the forum asking for advice as I didn't want to spend 5k on a new one.

However the unanimous answer was to get a new one. Having the hot patched tyre even as a spare was not recommended.

Peace of mind and safety is greater than 4-5 grand I felt and went for a new one.

[Reality]

Am planning to change tyres on my 43000km swift vdi from stock to 195/70/R14 Yokohamas on stock wheels. Is it advisable?I know 185/70/14 is the right size but i want to upsize further for better grip and high speed stabiity at the same time i do not want any other problems.
Please advise.

[naveen.raju]

Originally Posted by funkyp

Would not recommend a hot patch work. I was in a similar situation when I cut the side wall of my 2 month old yokos. Came on the forum asking for advice as I didn't want to spend 5k on a new one.

However the unanimous answer was to get a new one. Having the hot patched tyre even as a spare was not recommended.

Peace of mind and safety is greater than 4-5 grand I felt and went for a new one.

Even the mechanic told me to stay away from it. Went back to the alignment shop and he offered me a second hand S Drives for 800/-.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by Reality

Am planning to change tyres on my 43000km swift vdi from stock to 195/70/R14 Yokohamas on stock wheels. Is it advisable?I know 185/70/14 is the right size but i want to upsize further for better grip and high speed stabiity at the same time i do not want any other problems.
Please advise.

No it is not advisable to use 195/70/R14 tyres on stock wheels because of two reasons -
1. Tyres will foul with the wheel well on the slightest hump.
2. rim width is lower hence tyres will bulge out leading to reduced handling capability and reduced high speed cornering.

[Reality]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

No it is not advisable to use 195/70/R14 tyres on stock wheels because of two reasons -
1. Tyres will foul with the wheel well on the slightest hump.
2. rim width is lower hence tyres will bulge out leading to reduced handling capability and reduced high speed cornering.

Ok so that means i should change to 185/70/14? And are you sure about the 195s touching the wheel well? Coz i have seen a swift with 195s on stock wheels. Also suggest best upgrade on stock rims
Thanks